0
AggieDave

Lawsuit for a false complaint?

Recommended Posts

Wow Airman1270. I'm hurt (Just kidding). Did you just say cops today are not educated and do not know the law? I just want to make sure I understood your post right. I have a counter argument to that. Basically I spent 6 months, five days a week learning about the law. No, It does not make me a lawyer but I think I have a better understanding then civilians walking down the street who think they understand the law because they watch T.V. (Law and Order) or read newspapers. During training it was always stressed how not to violate some random persons rights. Your examples are the text book ones they teach about. Searching automobiles without a cause and stopping somebody that has not done anything.

I'm just curious, did the police reports you read during your radio career come out of newspapers or are they actually the reports as written by the person making it? If it was newspapers you only got one side of the story, the reporters. As I'm sure you know, newspapers can lean to either side of politics and make the reports the same.

Again, I think the world forgets that we are people and have families. I have a son whom I want to be a role model for. How can I set an example for my family if I do not do it at work.

If we can lets keep this dialog up. I'm curious to know how the other half of the world thinks. It will only make me a better law enforcement officer in the end and I think this is what most strive for, not how many people they can beat.
SUCK IT UP BUTTERCUP

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Quote

Police work, today: .... enforce liberalism ...



Huh???
I'm going to have to think about that one for a while....


_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

It's not difficult to understand if you have been taught basic historic principles of liberty, and have been paying attention to political/cultural events for many years.

Liberals do not make suggestions. They demand laws forcing you to behave the way they think you should behave.

Think about the long list of things you were free to do 30 years ago which are illegal today. This list would include things like restrictions on gun possession/ownership, anti-smoking restrictions imposed on private businesses, seat belt laws, bicycle helmet laws, HOV lanes, "open container" laws (What's wrong with an open container as long as the driver is sober?), criminalization of spanking, etc.

The list goes on. The common denominator in these instances is that a violation requires the police to intervene, and if you resist they're authorized to shoot you. "Free country" indeed!

Conservatives have some strong opinions about how you should live your life, but if you choose not to take them seriously you don't have to worry about being hassled by the cops.

The difference between Pat Robertson and Hillary Clinton is that Robertson won't drag you in front of a judge simply because you choose not to follow his advice.

Cheers,
Jon

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I think I have a better understanding then civilians walking down the street who think they understand the law...
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

Fair enough. I concede you have a better understanding of what the courts will allow you to get away with. But I question this apparent determination to drag as many people as possible into jail, only to get them bonded out as quickly as possible, often for minor "offenses" that could easily be dealt with by writing a ticket or issuing a warning.

There is NO justification for arresting some guy for sleeping in his car in the Wal-Mart parking lot. If it's such a damn offense to society that you must intervene, then just tap on the glass and say "I'm sorry sir, I have to ask you to move on." You can get what you want without being a prick about it. And if your leadership REQUIRES you to treat people this way, I question why you even want this job in the first place.



...I'm just curious, did the police reports you read during your radio career come out of newspapers or are they actually the reports as written by the person making it?...
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

I read the actual reports. My beat would have me stopping by the various agencies, and/or they'd fax us a pile every day. I had built up a nice relationship with the front desk personnel.

One day I asked the dispatcher why they make arrests for minor, non-violent violations, rather than just writing tickets. She looked at me very thoughtfully, then said "Actually, I don't know." It was clear she hadn't given the issue much thought.

One thing I noticed was the correlation between the use of K-9 units and the vaporization of citizen's basic rights. Most officers would at least explain the circumstances leading to a traffic stop or a subsequent search. But the K-9 guys would frequently begin by stating the time & place of the stop, then proceed with "During the search, I discovered..."

It was apparent that they did not think they needed to justify a search as, in their minds, searching automobiles was the sole reason they were sitting on the highway roadside in the first place. And it seemed to stretch the parameters of common sense that nearly every arrest they made involved young men from out of state who happened to commit minor violations that could neither be proven nor refuted. I don't know why every such stop justified a search, but I have trouble believing the county was paying these guys $35,000+ a year because they were so concerned about expired tags, "failure to maintain lane," or window tint violations.

Of course, if they didn't find anything they just sent the people on their way and didn't write a report about it.


...Again, I think the world forgets that we are people and have families...
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

Understood. I have a cop in the family as well.

I've never personally been mistreated, except for a few minor instances when I was younger. These did not result in my being ticketed or arrested, but they were completely unjustified and left a bitter taste in my mouth.

Whatever attitude problem I have can be traced to 1994, when a woman was arrested in a local supermarket after some brain-dead young clerk called 911 because she spanked her kid. Even after having 12 years to cool down I still believe that cop deserved to be shot dead in the parking lot.

Cheers,
Jon

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
>Conservatives have some strong opinions about how you should live
> your life, but if you choose not to take them seriously you don't
> have to worry about being hassled by the cops.

Unless you're gay, or believe in Allah instead of Christ. Conservative extremists are all about freedom - as long as you're a heterosexual christian. If not, well, sorry about that. You can't get married, or fly without being hassled, or adopt kids; that way you won't infect other people with your disease.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Conservative extremists are all about freedom - as long as you're a heterosexual christian.



And liberals are all about freedom so long as you don't say anything good about being a heterosexual christian. It might offend people.

Each side has their own bugaboos.


My wife is hotter than your wife.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

>And liberals are all about freedom so long as you don't say
>anything good about being a heterosexual christian.

Hmm, I'm a liberal and a heterosexual christian. Does that mean I have to get mad when people say anything good about me?



if you know what's good for you

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ok, I can see some of your points Airman1270. Your Wal-mart example does happen but you do not read about the times the person is asked to move along. Why you ask? Because there is no report made about it and it is not printed in the newspaper. I worked in a city with a high number of homeless people in it. When they were sleeping or harassing customers they usually got sent on their way, no citation and no arrest. I can not recall ever arresting one of them because they just happened to be there. It was one of a few reasons. 1) I asked the person to move on and they refused and became combative. 2) They were intoxicated and did not have the ability to care for themselves, also known as drunk in public. For reason number two I believe it was a good thing for them to go to jail. You ask why again, I will tell you. They would get robbed of what little things they had by other homeless people and get beat up by thugs and drugies. I knew the court system would not do anything to them and they would be released when they got sober. At least they had a hot meal and a place to sleep.

I can see your example with the K-9's and my agency has been spanked for that exact reason. So, I can not say a whole lot about that without talking out of my ass.

Unfortunately the law is quite specific if someone should go to jail or have a ticket written. There is some instances that the option exists if a person should get a ticket or go to jail. For example, driving without a license is a misdemeanor and you could go to jail for it. In 99% of the cases they are given a ticket. Again, most people do not hear of this because no report is made and it does not make the paper.

I can tell you have had a hard time letting that issue go from 1994. The way you write tells me that it still pisses you off. For example, "Fair enough. I concede you you have a better understanding of what the courts will allow you to GET AWAY WITH" and " I still believe the cop should BE SHOOT DEAD in the parking lot" Hopefully you are just saying it is fucked up and do not really wish someone dead.

You sound a lot like my brother because we have discussions about this kind of stuff all the time. He is really anti-authority also. It is nice to know people can have an open discussion in this thread without getting pissed off and make attacks at people like I have seen in the Dropzone forums before. After all, we are all skydivers. Even though I disagree with Airman1270 on so many levels I would still jump with you anytime. Peace out.

Mark
SUCK IT UP BUTTERCUP

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
...I can tell you have had a hard time letting that issue go from 1994. The way you write tells me that it still pisses you off...
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

Yes! Yes! It certainly does piss me off. There was NO justification for police intervention, let alone an arrest. This sort of thing is precisely my overall point.

Some brain dead clerk saw the mom spank the kid. The clerk had swallowed the brainwash about "spanking is violence", etc. and thought this was a criminal act worthy of a 911 call.

The cop simply responded to the call. But when he realized what was going on he should have apologized to the mom and perhaps cited the clerk for false report of a crime. The fact that he was willing to make an arrest scares the shit out of me. This sort of "just doing my job" attitude is what led to people being packed into boxcars several dozen years ago.

There was no violence, no harmful action on the part of the mom. The charges were dropped almost immediately, indicating there was no evidence to justify the arrest in the first place. In a news interview the kid himself said he didn't understand the fuss, as it was normal to be spanked when he stepped too far over the line of parental authority.

I have spanked my kids and it scares me to think a cop might intrude. Not because I'm "out of control" (as many anti-spanking pussies like to characterize the situation) but because I will be so full of anger and indignation at the cop that I might just punch him in the throat, kick him in the balls, take his gun and shoot him. Then I will be in serious trouble. But what else would I have done to defend myself & my family? Call the police? Or submit to this offensive intrusive bullshit? Why must I choose between two bad options, when a third option exists? That is, the police learn when to back down, mind their own damn business and leave us the hell alone.

There comes a time when enough is enough! This country was founded by people who fought back against authority when authority overstepped its bounds. You cannot continue to intrude into people's lives just because a bunch of goddamned liberal Democrats don't like what they're doing. There has to be a point at which you place your badge on your supervisor's desk and tell him firmly "No, this is not why I became a cop."



...I still believe the cop should BE SHOOT DEAD in the parking lot" Hopefully you are just saying it is fucked up and do not really wish someone dead...
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

True. Strong language designed to illustrate the point. I wish no harm; I just want to be left alone.


By the way, I'm sorry for allowing days to pass before responding. I get to the library a couple of times a week. And you're right - very interesting discussion.

Cheers,
Jon

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

>Conservatives have some strong opinions about how you should live
> your life, but if you choose not to take them seriously you don't
> have to worry about being hassled by the cops.

Unless you're gay, or believe in Allah instead of Christ. Conservative extremists are all about freedom - as long as you're a heterosexual christian. If not, well, sorry about that. You can't get married, or fly without being hassled, or adopt kids; that way you won't infect other people with your disease.


_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

Huh?

There is no movement to have homosexuals and non-Christians criminalized and arrested simply because they are who they are. We may disagree about basic moral and theological issues, but you won't end up in court for disagreeing, as I will if I drive alone in the left lane in Atlanta or allow customers to smoke in my restaurant.

By the way, gays are free to marry. If they're not attracted to the opposite sex there's little point in doing so, but they can marry if they want to.

They DON'T have the right to change the definition of a word that has meant a certain thing throughout thousands of years of recorded history.

Cheers,
Jon

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

because I will be so full of anger and indignation at the cop that I might just punch him in the throat, kick him in the balls, take his gun and shoot him.



That is so cool. You're just like Chuck Norris.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I can't comment a whole lot on what happened in 1994 because I was not there and I try my best not to Monday Morning Quarter back anything where I do not have complete information. Just like I would not due to someone who decided to stay with a main that had a line snapped in stead of cut it away. I was not there and did not have all the facts. (Could be a poor example but the only one I could think off)

Have you ever done a ride-a-long with any type of law enforcement? I know you said someone in your family was a cop or something? If you haven't I would suggest you do. That is if you can handle sitting in the patrol car without getting nervous. (JK) It might make you understand a few things a little better. I'm not saying it would completely or even change your view point a little, nor would I expect it to. Maybe if you understood what was dealt with on the norm you might understand why we react the way we do sometimes. I'm not justifying any illegal action that might have been done by any cop at any time. Something about dealing with people on a day to day bases when you do not know who they are or if they would like to kill you because they do not want to go to jail again.

I spank my kid also, and I would be pissed if a cop tried to stop me. I hate it now that some people consider it abuse. I was spanked growing up and do not consider myself abused. That is a whole different issue though and would probably deserve its own thread.
SUCK IT UP BUTTERCUP

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
...That is so cool. You're just like Chuck Norris...
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

Nah. I'm uglier.

Can you think of ANYTHING that someone could do that would make you very angry, even though you spend most of your time living a quiet, peaceful life and not bothering anybody?

Would you get angry if someone decided to feel up your wife while she was shopping at the supermarket? Are you saying you WOULDN'T become insulted & annoyed, and possibly use force to defend your family?

I think I have a very high tolerance for mistreatment before I risk reacting in such a way. Interfering with my children is one of those trigger items. The issue is not that I might react with force; the issue is that you would just stand there and allow it to happen.

There is very little a cop might do that would provoke me in this manner. I'm not a fight waiting to happen, especially if you mind your own business and leave me alone.

Cheers,
Jon

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

You are as liberal as I am conservative.



The self-righteous right wing of the Republican party is certainly not 'conservative', and the looney left wing of the Democratic party is certainly not 'liberal'.
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
...Have you ever done a ride-a-long with any type of law enforcement? I know you said someone in your family was a cop or something? If you haven't I would suggest you do. That is if you can handle sitting in the patrol car without getting nervous. (JK) It might make you understand a few things a little better. I'm not saying it would completely or even change your view point a little...
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

It would enable me to understand the day to day realities of the job, but I'm not sure it would help me understand why they think they have the right to stop a guy and demand his ID just because he's walking along the roadside at 2:00am.

I've been taking late-night walks for 30 years and have almost never been hassled. There was one time where I fit the description of someone they were looking for, but within moments they realized I wasn't the guy and thanked me & drove off. No search, no demand for ID, and no snoopy questions about where I was going, what I was doing, etc.

I made it into my mid-30's with a good attitude about the police. That is, when I bothered to think about them in the first place. I really never gave the issue much thought. Of course, when I was driving along smoking pot with my friends we'd take care not to attract attention, but even then there were no hard feelings and no ugly attitudes.

When I graduated into adult life in the mid-70's it was understood that the only way to attract a cop's attention was to do something wrong. I hung with a crowd that did not get involved in fast driving, throwing bottles & other litter from the car, shoplifting, burglary, assault, etc. The only trespass upon the law was getting high, which we were discreet about. We did not do things that would have resulted in many trips to the courthouse.

I think back to my cross-country drive in 1978. I was 20 with a car full of my stuff and a bumper sticker that read "Warning - I Brake for Hallucinations." A California cop cited me for excessive smoke (from the tailpipe, that is) but otherwise did not use the occasion to further check me out and carry out a search. Today, I believe the bumper sticker alone would have triggered a visit from the K-9 unit and they would have arrested me for the tablespoon of weed I had packed away in my stuff.

Today, it is not necessary to do anything wrong in order to be stopped, questioned, and even searched. Furthermore, we can now be hassled for doing many things that until recently, were perfectly legal. This change in the legal landscape has the effect of eroding respect for police. I still have plenty, but it's not the same as it used to be.

My brother-in-law is a retired New York City cop. We share the same philosophy. (I'm sure he doesn't appreciate some of my comments, but he knows me well and understands what I DON'T mean when I say these things.) He focused as best he could on serving the public and chasing bad guys. He resented being used to hassle people for minor violations and would restrict this activity to the barest minimum he could without losing his job. If ordered to "boot" at least four illegally parked cars, he'd find four and no more. Furthermore, he'd look for local residents who presumeably knew the city laws, rather than the poor out-of-town visitor who is easily intimidated by the experience of driving in Manhattan. He'd write a ticket or make an arrest if he had to, but otherwise would seek to resolve a situation without doing so if it could be avoided.

Much more to say, but my time's limited. Happy weekend, and hope you can get some sky. Today is the 24th anniversary of my first jump, the weather in Georgia is beautiful, and my rigs are out of date.

Sigh,
Jon

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
All right, point understood. I think we are beginning to beat a dead horse here. We will have to agree to disagree or we are going to go back and forth as long as dropzone.com is on the internet.

The weather in California was great also and I got only two jumps in this weekend. It was good though because it was the first jumps with my new gear. Talk to you later.
SUCK IT UP BUTTERCUP

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

...Can you think of ANYTHING that someone could do that would make you very angry, even though .....Are you saying you WOULDN'T become insulted & annoyed, and possibly use force to defend your family?



Lots of things, but I find those capable of making a real decision to act don't tend to verbalize the capability publicly.

I'm sure in your case, you were just emphasizing your opinion on the subject. And people post a different personality than they write usually.

You implied that reaction with force is only 2 responses - losing control and reacting in rage vs standing there and letting it happen. Both of these result in losing the battle.

Does the following quote resonate with you?

"hold before hurting
hurt before wounding
wound before maiming
kill not, where maining will suffice
the greatest warrior is one that doesn't have to kill"

It's a bit trite, but it's really old, so forgive the corniness

It's about control and capability. Your example, if some guy is feeling up your wife at the supermarket you have 3 choices: 1 - stand there and cry about it; 2 - knock him down and keep punching because your ego won't let you stop until YOU go to jail; or 3 - knock him down and do just enough to hold him there and wait for the cops to come and arrest him. There's only one right answer. Those that claim they can't help it that they'd be stuck on #2 until the 'haze cleared' lack self awareness and are worse than those on #1. Those stuck on #1 really need counseling and, frankly, a lesson on responsibility and honor.

I find a lot of people boast they are #2, especially if they are teenage boys. What's strange is they act like they are proud of it...

that said, cheers to you too

and no one either uglier, nor more handsome, nor stronger, nor even weaker if he wishes to be, than Chuck Norris. He is the extreme of all limits. Only limited by his choices, if that.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

0