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councilman24

why (rant)

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(rant on) do people insist on calling used gear 'new'?! Latest example? 1993 original Sabre with 200 jumps (amazing how many 20 year old canopies have 'only 200 jumps') and title is "New Sabre..) You put it in a rig and put it in the air it IS NOT NEW! And something with 200 jumps is not even LIKE NEW either!

"I only put 50 jumps on my brand new custom gear so I should be able to get more than I paid because it's available right now." NO you shouldn't! You might because some other newbie falls for it. Or some one is really desperate for a particular model and decides their 'market' price is higher. But you should not expect it.

(rant off)
I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

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councilman24

(rant on) do people insist on calling used gear 'new'?! Latest example? 1993 original Sabre with 200 jumps (amazing how many 20 year old canopies have 'only 200 jumps') and title is "New Sabre..) You put it in a rig and put it in the air it IS NOT NEW! And something with 200 jumps is not even LIKE NEW either!

"I only put 50 jumps on my brand new custom gear so I should be able to get more than I paid because it's available right now." NO you shouldn't! You might because some other newbie falls for it. Or some one is really desperate for a particular model and decides their 'market' price is higher. But you should not expect it.

(rant off)



People are idiots.

Decaf, bro.
Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

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I have no qualms about shit talking their asking price, and their mentality on the Facebook buy and sell forums.

I would also call bullshit if someone was trying to pull that locally and I caught wind of it.

Some will say the market will pay what the market will pay. But I think that is bullshit when prices are up because you are getting unwitting new jumpers to buy your "new" shitty gear at inflated prices!
"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

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You are right... but...

Always has been done. Young horse, just don't look at his teeth. New giant ocean steamliner, minor water damage, not even one voyage old... buyer must pick up. And the auto dealers have pushed the "previously owned" vs "used" monicer for a while now...

Currently I think part of the problem is folks wanting to change gear frequently and not wanting to loose depreciation on what they are selling.

To any newer jumpers/buyers, this is where a seasoned rigger can help. You MUST have a pre-purchase inspection done with the sale contingent upon the results. There is a lot of crap out there, and even more decent but overpriced used gear.

Caveat emptor

Meanwhile T - decaff and some sleep will help my friend.

JW
Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

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I also really like "I put 100 jumps on this <3 paragraphs of useless text>. total jumps unknown". Asking 10% under retail for a 15 year old ragged out wing.




And people continue to pay it. It's amazing. Individuals think that they can put 200-300 jumps on a rig, let it sit in a closet for 3 years and then think they can ask full retail or 'what they paid' on a 6-year-old rig because it's 'new'. No.

I have a theory on this - and it may be more related to a mentality I see at least in a certain subgroup of jumpers. They equate price->Quality , Quality->Safety and then use the reverse logic to assume price->safety. Thus, overpaying $2000 on a new or used rig means that it is much 'safer' than the same equipment at more reasonable costs, or at least makes them feel safer. New jumpers are especially susceptible to this thought process.

*Edited because apparently I can't spell or type this morning.
=========Shaun ==========


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I think your theory gives people too much credit, haha. The people I've encountered who've grossly overpaid for crappy used gear have only considered how much cheaper it is than new gear, and have failed to ask someone knowledgeable whether the price makes sense.

I'm thinking of telling people that as a rule of thumb, if they're looking at used gear that's older than ten years, or that has been heavily jumped, they should plan on having to drop $500 in upkeep (repairs and replacement parts) on it to make it airworthy, pending a full inspection.

But is seems that, since gear is kind of like a trusted friend to the owner, people tend to try to sell their gear for its sentimental value (which is high) rather than its actual value (which is often low, especially if it's been sitting in the closet while the owner hems and haws about leaving the sport for a few years). And newbies pay it, because they don't know any better, and often don't even know who to ask...

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So as someone who might soon sell a used container, how can I avoid being a scumbag seller? I have heard a good rule of thumb for a used canopy is new retail minus a couple hundred bucks for "walking out the door", then minus $1 per jump. So if you pay about $2000 for a new canopy, then sell it two years later with only 200 jumps on it, I would think about $1500- $1600 is a fair price, or not??

How about containers? A container can last 20 or more years and 4,000+ plus jumps if you take good care of it. A new container with all the options can be about $3000B| so would I be out of line asking for $1500 for a 10 year old container with less than 1000 jumps on it and in good condition (provided it has all the options)?

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A new container with all the options can be about $3000Pirate so would I be out of line asking for $1500 for a 10 year old container with less than 1000 jumps on it and in good condition (provided it has all the options)?




In my mind, yes. You are correct about new top of the line custom made containers that fit you perfectly costing $3000. However, we both know that you did not pay $3000 for it 10 years ago. And it will not be custom for anyone else. Of course, this is just my opinion and the real price of this stuff is what the market will bear. In my opinion, if you get 1K out of it you are doing well. But I also would not consider you a scumbag seller for asking more.
Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

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As someone who is currently in the process of buying a first rig, I gotta say I'm surprised and fascinated.

I used to be heavily into mountaineering. And--at least when I was into it--there was virtually no used gear market as far as critical, life-saving items; ropes, harnesses, hardware/protection, etc. I was kinda shocked when I learned there was a huge market for used SDing gear.

The obvious difference: riggers. God bless 'em!

But yeah, when you're your buying a used life-saving device, everything is different. Totally different from buying a used anything else.

As far as seller's claims about the gear; I think it's tricky. It's like buying a used car with no odometer. You really have no idea how many jumps or how well they maintained it.

Stating the obvious: when buying used gear the rigger's inspection is THE critical step. No one's word or promise or vouch supersedes it--even if the rig looks "super clean, like new!". That's obvious, I know, just putting it out there for my noobie brothers and sisters!!

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The obvious difference: riggers. God bless 'em!



Because someone has a piece of paper that says rigger doesn't mean they know a whole lot. Choose a rigger with years and years of (preferably full time) experience to check out any used gear you intend to purchase. The longer one has been rigging, the more likely it is they will catch potential problems, especially if the gear is not a current model.

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heavision

As someone who is currently in the process of buying a first rig, I gotta say I'm surprised and fascinated.

I used to be heavily into mountaineering. And--at least when I was into it--there was virtually no used gear market as far as critical, life-saving items; ropes, harnesses, hardware/protection, etc. I was kinda shocked when I learned there was a huge market for used SDing gear.

The obvious difference: riggers. God bless 'em!

But yeah, when you're your buying a used life-saving device, everything is different. Totally different from buying a used anything else.

As far as seller's claims about the gear; I think it's tricky. It's like buying a used car with no odometer. You really have no idea how many jumps or how well they maintained it.

Stating the obvious: when buying used gear the rigger's inspection is THE critical step. No one's word or promise or vouch supersedes it--even if the rig looks "super clean, like new!". That's obvious, I know, just putting it out there for my noobie brothers and sisters!!



All rigs will have a date of manufacture stamped on them somewhere....the main, reserve and H&C all have their own data panels. Thats your starting point.

The most important components are the Harness and Container and the reserve. Its pretty obvious if the H&C have been thrashed, even to the inexperienced.

The reserve comes with a data card, which documents its age and service life, and the rigger will have his own records, all pretty easy to access, and its life has been pretty well controlled.

Fakery doesn't really work with with reserves.

As for the main canopy, ya pays your money, ya take your chances. Even then, it could have started life as a bedsheet!!! You can still compare a main canopy with others you see on the DZ to get an idea of how well it has been cared for.

Ask around especially jumper who have similar/same types of rigs. And be sure your rig is compatible with your experience level.

But yes, your rigger is the go to man. The older and more grizzled, the better.

Beer will loosen his tongue.
My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

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VTmotoMike08

So as someone who might soon sell a used container, how can I avoid being a scumbag seller? I have heard a good rule of thumb for a used canopy is new retail minus a couple hundred bucks for "walking out the door", then minus $1 per jump. So if you pay about $2000 for a new canopy, then sell it two years later with only 200 jumps on it, I would think about $1500- $1600 is a fair price, or not??

How about containers? A container can last 20 or more years and 4,000+ plus jumps if you take good care of it. A new container with all the options can be about $3000B| so would I be out of line asking for $1500 for a 10 year old container with less than 1000 jumps on it and in good condition (provided it has all the options)?



Your logic is generally sound. However, some rigs and components hold their resale value, some don't. Sometimes color is a factor too. Container size compared to canopy size compared to human being size is a factor - average human + beginner canopy sizes are easier to sell, for example.

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