Why we are hated.

[Darius11 12]

We have a long history of influence in the Middle East.

Here is a time line of events.
The only purpose of this thread is to educate people who are unfamiliar with the history of US involvement both directly and indirectly.

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1948: Israel established. US declines to press Israel to allow expelled Palestinians to return.

1949: CIA backs military coup deposing elected government of Syria.

1953: CIA helps overthrow the democratically-elected Mossadeq government in Iran (which had nationalized the British oil company) leading to a quarter-century of repressive and dictatorial rule by the Shah, Mohammed Reza Pahlevi.

1956: US cuts off promised funding for Aswan Dam in Egypt after Egypt receives Eastern bloc arms.

1956: Israel, Britain, and France invade Egypt. US does not support invasion, but the involvement of its NATO allies severely diminishes Washington's reputation in the region.

1958: US troops land in Lebanon to preserve "stability."

early 1960s: US unsuccessfully attempts assassination of Iraqi leader, Abdul Karim Qassim.

1963: US reported to give Iraqi Ba'ath party (soon to be headed by Saddam Hussein) names of communists to murder, which they do with vigor.

1967-: US blocks any effort in the Security Council to enforce SC Resolution 242, calling for Israeli withdrawal from territories occupied in the 1967 war.

1970: Civil war between Jordan and PLO. Israel and US prepare to intervene on side of Jordan if Syria backs PLO.

1972: US blocks Sadat's efforts to reach a peace agreement with Egypt.

1973: US military aid enables Israel to turn the tide in war with Syria and Egypt.

1973-75: US supports Kurdish rebels in Iraq. When Iran reaches an agreement with Iraq in 1975 and seals the border, Iraq slaughters Kurds and US denies them refuge. Kissinger secretly explains that "covert action should not be confused with missionary work."

1978-79: Iranians begin demonstrations against the Shah. US tells Shah it supports him "without reservation" and urges him to act forcefully. Until the last minute, US tries to organize military coup to save the Shah, but to no avail.

1979-88: US begins covert aid to Mujahideen in Afghanistan six months before Soviet invasion in Dec. 1979. Over the next decade US provides training and more than $3 billion in arms and aid.

1980-88: Iran-Iraq war. When Iraq invades Iran, the US opposes any Security Council action to condemn the invasion. US soon removes Iraq from its list of nations supporting terrorism and allows US arms to be transferred to Iraq. At the same time, US lets Israel provide arms to Iran and in 1985 US provides arms directly (though secretly) to Iran. US provides intelligence information to Iraq. Iraq uses chemical weapons in 1984; US restores diplomatic relations with Iraq.

1987 US sends its navy into the Persian Gulf, taking Iraq's side; an overly-aggressive US ship shoots down an Iranian civilian airliner, killing 290.

1981, 1986: US holds military maneuvers off the coast of Libya in waters claimed by Libya with the clear purpose of provoking Qaddafi. In 1981, a Libyan plane fires a missile and two Libyan planes shot down. In 1986, Libya fires missiles that land far from any target and US attacks Libyan patrol boats, killing 72, and shore installations. When a bomb goes off in a Berlin nightclub, killing two, the US charges that Qaddafi was behind it (possibly true) and conducts major bombing raids in Libya, killing dozens of civilians, including Qaddafi's adopted daughter.

1982: US gives "green light" to Israeli invasion of Lebanon, killing more than 10,000 civilians. US chooses not to invoke its laws prohibiting Israeli use of US weapons except in self-defense.

1983: US troops sent to Lebanon as part of a multinational peacekeeping force; intervene on one side of a civil war. Withdraw after suicide bombing of marine barracks.

1984: US-backed rebels in Afghanistan fire on civilian airliner.

1988: Saddam Hussein kills many thousands of his own Kurdish population and uses chemical weapons against them. The US increases its economic ties to Iraq.

1990-91: US rejects any diplomatic settlement of the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait (for example, rebuffing any attempt to link the two regional occupations, of Kuwait and of Palestine). US leads international coalition in war against Iraq. Civilian infrastructure targeted. To promote "stability" US refuses to aid post-war uprisings by Shi'ites in the south and Kurds in the north, denying the rebels access to captured Iraqi weapons and refusing to prohibit Iraqi helicopter flights.

1991-present: Devastating economic sanctions are imposed on Iraq. US and Britain block all attempts to lift them. Hundreds of thousands die. Though Security Council had stated that sanctions were to be lifted once Saddam Hussein's programs to develop weapons of mass destruction were ended, Washington makes it known that the sanctions would remain as long as Saddam remains in power. Sanctions in fact strengthen Saddam's position. Asked about the horrendous human consequences of the sanctions, Secretary of State Madeleine Albright declares that "the price is worth it."

1993: US launches missile attack on Iraq, claiming self-defense against an alleged assassination attempt on former president Bush two months earlier.

1998: US and UK bomb Iraq over the issue of weapons inspections, even though Security Council is just then meeting to discuss the matter.

1998: US destroys factory producing half of Sudan's pharmaceutical supply, claiming retaliation for attacks on US embassies in Tanzania and Kenya and that factory was involved in chemical warfare. US later acknowledges there is no evidence for the chemical warfare charge.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[PLFXpert 0]

It is my belief the U.S. is not hated by some b/c of your timeline, but rather b/c your timeline lists the only events and information some people receive from their limited resources.

Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back.

[Darius11 12]

Feel free to post any thing that is inaccurate or any significant events that you feel are reported in a one sided manner.

I don’t see how using cruz missals on an aspirin factory can be view as justified but you feel free to point anything you wish out.

Nothing wrong with more facts and information

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[PLFXpert 0]

Frankly, I didn't read further than the first two listed events.

I haven't researched into their accuracy.

Accurate timeline or not, my previous statement applies.

I am not taking a position to justify or not justify anything. Rather, my position is people in any given country are at the mercy of the information publicly available to them. If the intention is to muster hate, the information given will in fact be biased.

Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back.

[Gawain 0]

50 years out of thousands of years of history is a drop in the bucket.

I don't dispute the events of your timeline, but they do lack some context of the "other side of the street" per se.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[vortexring 0]

Not really, 50 years is a considerable amount of the U.S.A's history - nobody from the Middle East had any issues with the native Americans did they?

'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

[Darius11 12]

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I am not taking a position to justify or not justify anything. Rather, my position is people in any given country are at the mercy of the information publicly available to them. If the intention is to muster hate, the information given will in fact be biased.

Do you feel you are immune to this?

Again the reason for the post is to educate people who have only heard one side of the story. We do not have many people from the Middle East who frequent this web site but we have many who do that there only exposure to the news is western news, which frequently leaves out one side.


Again if you feel there are important contributions that the US has made to the Middle East that you want to mention please go head. If you can not think of anything I would look at to why you so blindly assume that we are so kind with out any real evidence.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[outrager 6]

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50 years out of thousands of years of history is a drop in the bucket.

US involvement in Middle East doesn't go back much further than 50 years, and entire US history is a bit shorter that thousands of years

US has managed to screw up its image rather quickly, on historical scale.

bsbd!

Yuri.

[idrankwhat 0]

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We have a long history of influence in the Middle East.

Here is a time line of events.
The only purpose of this thread is to educate people who are unfamiliar with the history of US involvement both directly and indirectly.

You could have saved yourself a lot of trouble and just said "they hate freedom". Get that down and you may even get to be president, well not president but certainly secretary of defense

[bogwarrior 0]

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=2408097;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;;page=unread#unread

[PLFXpert 0]

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Do you feel you are immune to this?

Again the reason for the post is to educate people who have only heard one side of the story.

I am most definitely not immune.

However, in my country (USA) I have the luxury of having access to your timeline of info.

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why you so blindly assume

I'm certain I didn't assume anything.

Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back.

[Darius11 12]

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50 years out of thousands of years of history is a drop in the bucket.

I don't dispute the events of your timeline, but they do lack some context of the "other side of the street" per se.

America has been around a lot less then a thousand years.

And again I welcome any additions you wish to make.
So if you feel like there is any thing you would like to mention or add please do.

But I ask you please keep it factual. Not Anti-US or anti-anyone but simple facts. Not propaganda but just a time line.

We should not deny the facts if we wish to understand the real reasoning behind our actions and the actions of others towards us. We can stay here and call people names and have highly emotional debates however that will not get anywhere.

IMHO- our actions have a direct link to why we are hated, and targeted. If we do not deny the questionable things we have done then we can learn from them. If we learn from them and adjust our policies accordingly not only will we have more peace in this world, but our own citizens will also be safer.

The war on Terror is not a war against one person but it is a war against an Idea.
It is also not a one sided war. It is stupid to think that we have done nothing but be free and that is why we are targeted.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[Darius11 12]

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I'm certain I didn't assume anything.

Then my apologize as it seems I assumed that from your reaction you were hinting that the US has done a lot of good in the region and is not mentioned. Or that the information is some how flawed or wrong.

Sorry

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[vortexring 0]

We should not deny the facts if we wish to understand the real reasoning behind our actions and the actions of others towards us. We can stay here and call people names and have highly emotional debates however that will not get anywhere.

IMHO- our actions have a direct link to why we are hated, and targeted. If we do not deny the questionable things we have done then we can learn from them. If we learn from them and adjust our policies accordingly not only will we have more peace in this world, but our own citizens will also be safer.

The war on Terror is not a war against one person but it is a war against an Idea.
It is also not a one sided war. It is stupid to think that we have done nothing but be free and that is why we are targeted.

[vortexring 0]

Darius>Do you feel you are immune to this?

Again the reason for the post is to educate people who have only heard one side of the story.<

However, with your timeline your only showing one side as well

'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

[PLFXpert 0]

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However, with your timeline your only showing one side as well

Ugh. Oh. Now you've done it. He's going to get all "show-me-some-examples" on your ass.

Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back.

[vortexring 0]

Your not now Darius, are you?

'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

[lawrocket 3]

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America has been around a lot less then a thousand years.

No, but we've had the same government for over 200. The same cannot be said of any other place, can it?

500 B.C. - Persian Empire conquers all of middle east.

400 BC - Alexander the Great liberates captured middle eastern kingdoms from Persian Empire and takes Persia.

334 B.C. - Roman Empire takes over, but leaves Persia alone.

200-300 BC - Mohammed

570 AD - Umayyads take over Arab Empire and capture neighboring territories in Africa, Spain, India.

760 AD - The Abassid Dynasty wrests control. For the first and last time, the Middle East is a center of science and technological development.

760 - Turks fight back and take some territory back.

1100-1300 - Christians crusade in the Middle East to reclaim the Holy Land taken from them by the Arabs. Arabs tell Christians, "get over it - it was a long time ago. Whiners."

1300's - Mongols pay back Middle East for the Persian invaders. Mongols refuse to get over it and destroy Persia and Iraq. Arab-Islamic Empires go kaput.

1450's - Ottomans start growing, but don't want Persia.

1800 - Russia and Austria move in on Ottomans.

1914 - Ottomans side with Germany. Big mistake. France and Britain divide up the goodies.

1916 - British diplomat promises Palestinian independence to Mecca cleric.

1917 - British goes other way, promising Jewish state.

1917-1941 - lotsa states get independence.

November 28, 1947 - UN Approves Isreali Partition
November 29, 1947 - Arabs kill Jews in three separate attacks.
May 14, 1948 - Israel declares independence
May 14, 1948 - All neighbors attack Israel.
1948 - Israel, greatly outnumbered, takes more territory.
1948-1950 - over 750,000 Jews forced to leave bithplaces in Arab countries due to Anti-Jewish animosity.
1950-present - Israel under constant attack.

And people wonder why Israel is so mean....

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[Shawndiver 0]

They don't seem to hate the millions given by America in economic aid over the years.
fpc.state.gov/documents/organization/45198.pdf

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[billvon 2,921]

>They don't seem to hate the millions given by America in
>economic aid over the years.

Nor do we seem to hate their oil, even though we do a pretty good job of hating them on occasion.

[Shawndiver 0]

True enough, just pointing out that there are some positive contributions coming from us, per Darius' request.

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[billvon 2,921]

>just pointing out that there are some positive contributions
>coming from us, per Darius' request.

I agree. I think the big negative right now is that we're killing them in large numbers. Get rid of that and I think you'd see attitudes gradually change.

[falxori 0]

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200-300 BC - Mohammed

I think you are missing in a few centuries...

"Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

[Skyrad 0]

You're not kidding, I've got furniture older than America

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Skyrad 0]

What do you mean the same govenment? No more than we in GB have.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca