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DougH

Coffin Nail - the ultimate in main closing pin technology.

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Hi Doug,

Quote

Pull outs have to be straight pins, right??!



Practically; yes. Actually, no; you could pull-out a curved pin. It would be more difficult, but possible.

I'm of the: A specific tool for a specific task school of thought.

I do not use my bartacker to sew on binding tape.

Jerry Baumchen

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JerryBaumchen

Hi Doug,

Quote

Pull outs have to be straight pins, right??!



Practically; yes. Actually, no; you could pull-out a curved pin. It would be more difficult, but possible.

I'm of the: A specific tool for a specific task school of thought.

I do not use my bartacker to sew on binding tape.

Jerry Baumchen


Thanks Jerry! But it was a joke! Kind of like the original product under debate. :):P
"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

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It should include a hackey handle to install right next to it on the bridle so you have something to get hold of when you need to pull out the nail while the PC tows.:)

NO Jerry, I'm not serious.:P I am serious someone needs to have a serious talk with this joker.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

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RMURRAY

all very negative but how does it perform?



I can only speak to how it performs as a grommet damager, it does that part very well.

Anecdotally we can assume that it functions at keeping a container closed, and usually will let it open. But there is already a time tested part that does that without nearly a many trade-offs.
"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

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i would be interested in real results. lets see a picture of the wear. and what issue are they solving. i suppose it is supposed to be more secure than the curved pin since the loop sits down inside the grommet more,,,harder to simply push it out in a direction parallel to the backpad.

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I think the design is lousy, but it does bring up an issue worth discussing - the desire to have the pin stay put until we want it to move. Main closing pins usually behave, but not always. A curved pin could have a similar design as this coffin nail, or there can be other ways, perhaps thought of "external" to the pin that can improve pin security. What matters is properly identifying that there is in fact a problem worth fixing, and how to improve it without causing other problems.
People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

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Quote

i would be interested in real results. lets see a picture of the wear. and what issue are they solving.



+1. This guy. This guy has it right here. Run a couple hundred (thousand) pull tests at different angles, comparing both pull tests and grommet wear to a control (standard pin) sample, both from brass and Stainless steel. Also compare closing loop wear for various types of closing loops in common use. Data like that would remove opinions of the design and show whether or not it is superior.

I'm just hung up on the 'Who has time for a pin check' advertising gimmick. What the actual fuck.

*Edited because apparently I can' type or spell today
=========Shaun ==========


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The problem worth fixing is indeed that the pin sometimes moves when it's not supposed to, but in my opinion the solutions are already known. And if people can't be bothered to keep a tight closing loop and to keep their rig in mind when moving around and out of the aircraft, I'd kindly ask them to go bother some other sport. I have never seen any ill effects due to being too aware about your gear.

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DougH

Nope this isn't a joke. I decided to share after I argued with some 50 jump wonder today on facebook who was sold on all the virtues of the product.


http://nitrofly.biz/



What were the arguments put forward by the 50 jump wonder as to why this is a good product?

I'm curious what the designer is actually telling the newbies.

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The same shit that is on the website.

One of the arguments for example was "tandem students can't push your pin out now while they are messing with your gear".

Thank god, because that has happened to me every weekend for the past 11 years. Goddamn tandem students!
"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

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I don't even see how this design would solve that non-problem...

If a tandem student is messing with your gear enough to pull your pin out (and who hasn't seen dozens of main containers open and flopping around in the back of the plane on every jump! :S), then they would be able to do just the same with this piece of junk.


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yoink

I don't even see how this design would solve that non-problem...

If a tandem student is messing with your gear enough to pull your pin out (and who hasn't seen dozens of main containers open and flopping around in the back of the plane on every jump! :S), then they would be able to do just the same with this piece of junk.



It doesn't really solve any problems, real or otherwise.

It was a stupid fucking idea when I first saw it, and everyone gave advice to that point. Multiple riggers gave similar feedback.

It was a stupid idea, but now that it is being sold AND PURCHASED it is a really stupid flat out dangerous idea. Hence my motivation for my post.
"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

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This could be an interesting opportunity for a Darwinism study. Think about it. We've had some pretty good gear for a while now. Cypreses have saved countless lives of people who should have died and removed them selves from our sport. We are growing week from a lack of natural selection. If it were not for high performance canopies I think that we would have degenerated into... bowlers by now. This could be just the thing to thin the herd and remove the incompetent. I think it should be sold in every gear store. I even think it should be offered as an option on every rig. It's an intelligence test. Do you want the curved pin or this thing? If they chose the nail then they bounce and eliminate them selves from the sport and the gene pool.

It's GENIUS!

Lee
Lee
[email protected]
www.velocitysportswear.com

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IJskonijn

The problem worth fixing is indeed that the pin sometimes moves when it's not supposed to, but in my opinion the solutions are already known. And if people can't be bothered to keep a tight closing loop and to keep their rig in mind when moving around and out of the aircraft, I'd kindly ask them to go bother some other sport. I have never seen any ill effects due to being too aware about your gear.



Oh but this so you don't HAVE to have a tight loop that is to inconvenient to pack. AND you don't have to worry AT ALL about moving in the airplane. Of course why even have a main when you won't use it most of the time? WAIT, put it on the reserve so you don't have to check that either! ( For those that don't understand sarcasim this is it.)

And to the guy with 2000 jumps who wondered why all the responses were negative figure out which way a main bridle usually pulls, and pull a nirmal straight pull out pin and a normal curved throw out pin in that direction. Then stick a big add bolt through the loop to simulate this killer. Then maybe you'll get it.

Thenthree piece hinged pin we thought it was is a better idea. Not much but some.
I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

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councilman24

***The problem worth fixing is indeed that the pin sometimes moves when it's not supposed to, but in my opinion the solutions are already known. And if people can't be bothered to keep a tight closing loop and to keep their rig in mind when moving around and out of the aircraft, I'd kindly ask them to go bother some other sport. I have never seen any ill effects due to being too aware about your gear.



Oh but this so you don't HAVE to have a tight loop that is to inconvenient to pack. AND you don't have to worry AT ALL about moving in the airplane. Of course why even have a main when you won't use it most of the time? WAIT, put it on the reserve so you don't have to check that either! ( For those that don't understand sarcasim this is it.)

And to the guy with 2000 jumps who wondered why all the responses were negative figure out which way a main bridle usually pulls, and pull a nirmal straight pull out pin and a normal curved throw out pin in that direction. Then stick a big add bolt through the loop to simulate this killer. Then maybe you'll get it.

Thenthree piece hinged pin we thought it was is a better idea. Not much but some.

being an engineer,,,,what i am saying is lets see the test results. the pin is curved just a tighter radius and not to the extent of the curved pin we all know. i could be wrong but i assume it has at least a couple thousand jumps on a bunch of rigs prior to being put on the market.

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I'm not defending the guy, just trying to figure out his reasoning.

From the pics:
The pin is slightly curved on its 'inside' against the loop
The outside though is completely flat, until the pin has been extracted enough for the tapered tip to drop down into the grommet.

So it looks like it has to lever up the loop until it gets dragged out, tip pressing on and dragging against the grommet.

Now the ad does mention it is made for light closing loop tension -- so I guess it is expected to lever up the loop.

I'm guessing he figures that a little awkward levering and scraping against a modern stainless grommet is acceptable and works with slightly lighter loop tension. I'm not sure that scraping is good, and it might also put a lot of sudden stress on the loop and lead to loop damage.

Meanwhile the lack of overall curvature on the device is supposed to the chance of pushing it out of the loop just by pressing up against the pack. (For our curved pins, we rely on it to flip or rotate easily, being hard to push a highly curved pin out.)

After all, other straight pins like pullout pins or reserve pins are less likely to be pushed out. Still, they can be pushed out if the cover over them isn't solid and the pressure is in just the right spot.

This Coffin Nail thing is thicker, so might be 'grabbed' more easily, but on the other hand has the scooped out part where the loop sits so that reduces the chance of it sliding out. It might actually take a fair bit of force to push it out!

(Straight reserve pins do get pushed out sometimes, but might be more susceptible to sliding out because of their up-down orientation which is the direction force is applied if someone slumps down against a bulkhead or something. It is harder to apply strong side to side forces on a closing pin.)

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pchapman

(Straight reserve pins do get pushed out sometimes, but might be more susceptible to sliding out because of their up-down orientation which is the direction force is applied if someone slumps down against a bulkhead or something. It is harder to apply strong side to side forces on a closing pin.)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T913e_HAAOc

Nope, not harder. It just requires more stupidity, but these guys don't seem to be lacking in that department...

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councilman24

It should include a hackey handle to install right next to it on the bridle so you have something to get hold of when you need to pull out the nail while the PC tows.:)

NO Jerry, I'm not serious.:P I am serious someone needs to have a serious talk with this joker.



People tried.
NIN
D-19617, AFF-I '19

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