M2 AAD: need to set DZ offset on every jump

[uer16 1]

Jumping at a DZ where landing area is at a significantly different altitude.

I've found that the device shuts off after every jump and one has to re-do the convoluted altitude offset routine every time.

Do other AADs shut off after every jump? I find that there is a real chance of setting the offset incorrectly given how often it has to be done, and potentially have a premature opening.

Would it be reasonable to keep it off entirely for convenience and to prevent incorrect settings or am I talking out of my ass?

[q1w2e3_89 0]

My M2 does not turn off after every jump. I suspect something is wrong with your unit. As with most AAD's, they shut off automatically after a period of inactivity (24 hours, I believe?).

[piisfish 137]

q1w2e3_89

My M2 does not turn off after every jump. I suspect something is wrong with your unit. As with most AAD's, they shut off automatically after a period of inactivity (24 hours, I believe?).

do you also jump with offsets?

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[pchapman 278]

That was a traditional limitation of the M2. Offset for one jump only. The newest models now allow a permanent offset. Check with factory on getting a software upgrade? (Not sure about the 'turning off' part though)

[councilman24 37]

RTFM! I don't own a MARs and haven't used one and it took me 3 minutes to find the manual on line, download it, and find the answer. Yes it turns off after every offset jump.

It is very important that every AAD owner completely understand how their AAD works. Several people have died because they didn't understand their AAD or didn't use it right.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[uer16 1]

You misread my post. I know exactly how my AAD works. My questions were:
A) Whether that's standard across other AADs
B) Whether it's acceptable for people to completely disable their AAD due to this issue.

And I agree 100% on all your points

[councilman24 37]

uer16

You misread my post. I know exactly how my AAD works. My questions were:
A) Whether that's standard across other AADs
B) Whether it's acceptable for people to completely disable their AAD due to this issue.

And I agree 100% on all your points

Ofhers seem to have misunderstood but I apologize. And yes you talking out your ass if you think this is a reason to turn your AAD off. Either bite the bullet and spend a few minutes each jump at your normal dz to save your life or sell it and buy a different one. I have over half my jumps before electronic AADs came out. And many people wouldn't jump with an experinced jumper with an AAD pre.cypres because they thought it was too dangerous. No reason other than too cheap to jump without one now. And I admit to being.too cheap to have one for each of my four rigs. I have two and choose them for combat RW.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[wolfriverjoe 1,464]

uer16

You misread my post. I know exactly how my AAD works. My questions were:
A) Whether that's standard across other AADs
B) Whether it's acceptable for people to completely disable their AAD due to this issue.

And I agree 100% on all your points

Ok. Your original post did have those questions, but it wasn't entirely clear. I had to read the post I quoted, and then go back and read your original.

So...

A) A CYPRES2 needs the offset to be put back in for each jump. It doesn't turn of. It does a few other things, depending on how it was set and how the landing field elevation was relative to the setting (pages 19 & 20 in my manual).

B) That's a personal choice. Is the hassle of turning it back on and resetting it each time worth the safety of having it on? Only you can answer that one.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[pchapman 278]

I was wrong in my prior post(but nobody mentioned it yet). Easy to lose track of all the different modes of the different AADs. So to review for you and me:

The Mars M2 doesn't allow any permanent firing altitude offset, as opposed to the similar landing altitude offset. That as you see is annoying.

Early this year I heard that they would soon have the M2 "Multi", and so have all the various modes in one device (Student / Intermediate / Pro / Swoop / Tandem), and also have firing altitude adjustment. I forgot that this was still not available; it was supposed to come sometime this summer.

Mars wants one to cycle the power any time one doesn't move on level ground between landing and takeoff:

Quote

Should you accidentally land in a location 30m higher or lower than the preset landing elevation, switch the device off after landing and turn it on just before the next dive. The device must always be switched off during transport.

So when there's an altitude offset Mars just does the shutdown automatically. Annoying if one is using the offset to bump up the firing altitude (say for personal preference or jumping over hills), but are landing right back at the takeoff point (so there's no up and down travel on the ground).

===========================

Meanwhile Vigil says for the Vigil II:
(manual 2.0.6 of 2013, current start of 2017)
(not the Vigil 2+)

Quote

To avoid unexpected firing of the cutter, you must switch OFF your Vigil® before traveling in a closed vehicle
(car, bus, train ...), due to possible air pressure variation.
However, there is no problem traveling in an open vehicle at the drop zone altitude

and

Quote

When the elevation of your landing zone differs by more than 150 ft. (50 m) compared to your initial
take-off zone and this landing zone becomes your new take-off zone, it is necessary to switch your Vigil®
off and back on again so that it can re-calibrate itself.

So it doesn't shut off... but you are supposed to do so anyway if the ground isn't nearly level.

The Vigil II's "altitude correction" setting is permanent, and doesn't shut down the unit after a jump. There is just a single mode for any adjustments.

Quote

This principle also allows you to modify the activation altitude permanently if the airport where you take off and the landing zone are at DIFFERENT altitudes or if there is a hillock near the drop zone.

==================
The Vigil 2+ still has the same altitude correction idea, but now they mention it can be used both for landing at a different elevation, and increasing the firing altitude for regular jumps.

The arming on the way up is also different, no longer at 150ft but at 1000ft (more like Cypres' 1500 ft behaviour).

The bit up above about turning off and on if more than 150 elevation difference is now 90 ft for the 2+.

===================

Meanwhile the Cypres II:
(early 2017 manual)

They have the Dropzone Offset and Firing Altitude Offset as two separate functions.

The Dropzone Offset if for one jump only, although when restarting (on C2's with newer software) there's a way to quickly access the prior offset. The unit does not shut itself off. They say to cycle it off and on before takeoff, when landing and takeoff altitudes differ.

The Firing Altitude Offset is separate and stays fixed with no limitations on further jumps. (And has been of more interest on the Cypres since it pioneered modern electronic AAD's and started with a lower activation altitude that others later did, and is now considered to be fairly low.)

Although the Vigil was always stricter about car travel (and indeed in the early days had units firing in cars when doors slammed), Cypres also wants the unit to be cycled if there are altitude changes between landing and takeoff:

Quote

Should any of the following situations occur,
CYPRES must be reset before the next jump:
• The dropzone is missed and the landing takes
place in an area with an elevation greater than
30 feet (10 m) above or below the dropzone
level. Or, on the return journey to the dropzone
the ground elevation changes similarly.
• The unit is taken away from the airfield/dropzone
by vehicle or on foot and later brought
back again.

And this is for the Cypres that had long been marketed more as "set it and forget it" than the other AADs. Not everyone remembers turning an AAD off and on again for any model, when there are moderate altitude changes around the DZ in case of off landings.

[dbrightman 0]

The m2 Multi is now available for purchase!

Here are a few of the Multi features:
M2 Multi Features:
1. Multi-Function Version
a. 5 changeable profiles
i. Student, Intermediate, Professional, Canopy Piloting, and Tandem
2. New control unit with large display with excellent readability.
3. Easy access menu
a. Info can accessed with unit ON or OFF.
4. Ability to increase and lock in beginning of activation zone
a. An additional 100ft to 900ft may be added to increase beginning of activation zone, and set with current user-profile in 100ft increments.
5. AX-Blade cutter
a. Guillotine type blade
b. Solid stainless steel body
c. Flat-sided to prevent rolling in the reserve pack tray
d. 55mm (shortest on market)
e. User/field replaceable
f. M2 Multi cutter is backwards compatible with original m2.
6. Ability for user to set feet/meter version.
7. Waterproof: 2 meter/6.5 feet for 24 hours
8. Gravity Index
9. Smallest device on the market
10. Up to 15 years or 15K jumps without maintenance or battery change

The ability to set an offset for landing location has not changed. If an offset for landing location has been entered, the device will power off after the jump has concluded.

[councilman24 37]

pchapman

I was wrong in my prior post(but nobody mentioned it yet). Easy to lose track of all the different modes of the different AADs. So to review for you and me:

The Mars M2 doesn't allow any permanent firing altitude offset, as opposed to the similar landing altitude offset. That as you see is annoying.

Early this year I heard that they would soon have the M2 "Multi", and so have all the various modes in one device (Student / Intermediate / Pro / Swoop / Tandem), and also have firing altitude adjustment. I forgot that this was still not available; it was supposed to come sometime this summer.

I didn't think the new Mars were available yet but thought you knew something I didn't. Or one more thing I didn't. At the symposium they actually had a spec side to their mock up 'Multi' flyer that they wouldn't let me photograph. Still in development. They need to get it out. I truly believe that with modern gear 750' is to low. My AADs are set at 1050'

All of your post is why I don't try to keep up with any AAD's but the one I own other than help others read they manual and why my comment earlier about everyone needs to read their manual completely. Along with different versions of the Vigil in the field. Their are many supposed cypres misfirings but the data for all up to the time were shared with me. The Cypres always fired when it's firing parameters were reached. But sometimes the speed was reached until lower that 750. Or they were turned on somewhere else. etc. etc. I believe the claim that Cypres has always fired when it was supposed to but that is different than when someone THINKS is should have fired and doesn't mean the reserve opened in time.

WHEN MARs allows raising the routine firing altitude from 750' I'll recommend them. I'm still a cypres man for many reasons, some not relating to specs or function.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[dbrightman 0]

Standard firing altitude on a MarS m2 is 875ft. With the Multi, additional altitude can be added in increments of 100ft, up to an additional 900ft.

[councilman24 37]

Is the Multi out yet? Supposed to be.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[sammielu 3]

It sounds like the conclusion is that Cypress and Vigil AADs also require being turned off and reset after an offset landing area jump, the difference on a M2 is that it turns itself off for you.

Out of curiosity, where are you jumping and how much is the offset? Do you land on a big hill? How do you get back down to the airport?

[dbrightman 0]

The Multi has been released and is available for purchase.

[pchapman 278]

dbrightman

The Multi has been released and is available for purchase.

Good to see that. While one can't always do everything at once, next step will be to update the web site!

[uer16 1]

sammielu

Out of curiosity, where are you jumping and how much is the offset? Do you land on a big hill? How do you get back down to the airport?

Hi Sam,

Skydive Hollister: +400ft-ish landing area, get back to landing area airport via limousine with open windows. I seem to be the only one with an M2.

AFAIK nobody resets their Vigil AAD on every jump, which seems to be OK since the windows are always open in the vehicle.

[uer16 1]

For the Vigil, it says to shut off if "this landing zone becomes your new take-off zone", but that is not the case for this DZ, since we still take-off at the airport.

Conclusion: don't have to turn off Vigil 2. Wish the wording was clearer.

[dbrightman 0]

Website has been updated!
https://www.m2-usa.com/