SkyDekker 1,267 #1 July 27, 2006 Quote Tour de France winner Floyd Landis has tested positive for the male sex hormone testosterone, his Phonak team said on Thursday. The news comes one day after the sport's world governing body said an unnamed cyclist in this year's Tour tested positive for doping. The Tour wrapped up Sunday with Landis, from the United States, winning the famed three-week cycling race. Should be interesting to see how this plays out. My guess is soon the accusations will fly that it is a deliberate attack on a US athlete. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #2 July 27, 2006 QuoteQuote Tour de France winner Floyd Landis has tested positive for the male sex hormone testosterone, his Phonak team said on Thursday. The news comes one day after the sport's world governing body said an unnamed cyclist in this year's Tour tested positive for doping. The Tour wrapped up Sunday with Landis, from the United States, winning the famed three-week cycling race. Should be interesting to see how this plays out. My guess is soon the accusations will fly that it is a deliberate attack on a US athlete. Of course it's a deliberate attack. He was painted white and had "UN" markings all over him. <> Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,314 #3 July 27, 2006 Gutted! Given that the information has come from UCI and his own team (and not just allegations printed in l'Equipe) this may well have some merit (especially since it was a sample taken after his miraculous ride on stage 17). I really hope the B sample doesn't confirm that he cheated, but his reputation will be tainted whatever happens.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #4 July 27, 2006 QuoteShould be interesting to see how this plays out. My guess is soon the accusations will fly that it is a deliberate attack on a US athlete. I thought that all the competitors get tested, if so, I doubt this could be construed as singling him out (though I'd think the winner would be scrutinized harder than any other competitor as it should be.) As far as the French spectators and the TDF council and their attitudes towards Lance A in the past, I wouldn't be surprised to see some in that council manufacturing claims against another US champion. But not all, nor as a concerted effort. But I also wouldn't be surprised to see a virtual unknown testing positive for real also in the world of international sports. What I do know, is that whatever armchair commentary comes out, that the investigation to close will likely be thorough and the truth of the situation will be confirmed with those that matter (the athlete and the TDF people) - and that the rest of us won't ever get a clear picture. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StreetScooby 5 #5 July 27, 2006 Quote Tour de France winner Floyd Landis has tested positive for the male sex hormone testosterone, So, the French riders don't have testosterone?? We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #6 July 27, 2006 QuoteQuote Tour de France winner Floyd Landis has tested positive for the male sex hormone testosterone, So, the French riders don't have testosterone?? oh, crap, is this just a gag? I fell hook, line, and sinker if so. Even worse, I thought about it, and then just assumed it was not 'natural' testosterone and just went down that path. (good gag too - i'll extract the hook) ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,314 #7 July 27, 2006 I don't think it's a joke, I've found the story on BBC and Reuters already - there are many methods of doping that simply add to the levels of what is already present in the body, red blood cell count, human growth hormone, testosterone. So what has happened is that he has tested positve to artificialy high levels of testosterone, not just any testosterone. Anyway... QuoteAs far as the French spectators and the TDF council and their attitudes towards Lance A in the past, I wouldn't be surprised to see some in that council manufacturing claims against another US champion. But not all, nor as a concerted effort. It's not the Tour de France management that deals with doping tests and rider bans, it's the UCI - the International Union of Cyclists who would definitely not stir up shit like this for no reason. Also the outcry over LA for all those years came pretty much exclusively from the French newspaper l'Equipe, not from official bodies like UCI or TDF.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bch7773 0 #8 July 27, 2006 if testosterone is a doping agent, call me a doper... I'm loaded with the stuff. I assume they caught him with highly elevated, unusual levels? MB 3528, RB 1182 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zipp0 1 #9 July 27, 2006 Quoteif testosterone is a doping agent, call me a doper... I'm loaded with the stuff. I assume they caught him with highly elevated, unusual levels? Yes, elevated. But couldn't winning the TDF elevate your testoserone a bit? I mean, they guy DOES have nuts. -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #10 July 27, 2006 Quote*** Tour de France winner Floyd Landis has tested positive for the male sex hormone testosterone. Quote Is it because the French Riders have NO testosterone in their system? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GTAVercetti 0 #11 July 27, 2006 you are too late. Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites warpedskydiver 0 #12 July 27, 2006 Damn I should have read further on. It is the same as when all the french riders accused Lance Armstrong of cheating so they all went out and had their balls lapped off to be equal. (Drag coefficient) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #13 July 27, 2006 Quote the International Union of Cyclists who would definitely not stir up shit like this for no reason. good point ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites pirana 0 #14 July 27, 2006 Still not seeing a link to news source or a punch line, so unsure if this is a joke or not. My initial assumption was joke." . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jakee 1,314 #15 July 27, 2006 BBC Guardian Yahoo sportDo you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SkyDekker 1,267 #16 July 27, 2006 try google news...or just google, plenty of links will pop-up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #17 July 27, 2006 at the moment it's only a positive on the A sample, unconfimed. Properly no names should be given until the B sample is tested (in front of the athlete), but his withdrawl from races stood out. If the B passes, then we'll have Lance II, with the Frenchies bitching and moaning, and the Americans wondering who fucked with the A test. If the B confirms the A failure, dunno, I've always had trouble with the threshold failure standards - men have their own 'monthly' type cycle with testosterone levels and some are going to be higher than others. There have also been trouble in the past with thresholds on the EPO test that lead to revisions upward to avoid [any more] false positives. Does an injection of testerone give immediate results? I had thought of it more like steroids- helpful over the longer haul. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Skyrad 0 #18 July 27, 2006 After a great American Hero winning this competition for so many years how sad that this has happened.When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gawain 0 #19 July 27, 2006 How do you test for a hormone that occurs naturally in the body? A guy who gets laid every day has a different level from a guy who hasn't in weeks? Groups of men working to together (for example in the military) typically have elevated levels too. So, how can that be tested? Is there an "artificial" hormone?So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SkyDekker 1,267 #20 July 27, 2006 QuoteHow do you test for a hormone that occurs naturally in the body? A guy who gets laid every day has a different level from a guy who hasn't in weeks? Groups of men working to together (for example in the military) typically have elevated levels too. So, how can that be tested? Is there an "artificial" hormone? Good questions. I would assume there is some form of "normal" range. I would also assume this is not the first time this cyclist has been tested, so there might be documentation with regards to previous levels. First it is time to wait for the results of the tests on sample b. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ramon 0 #21 July 27, 2006 Quote Does an injection of testerone give immediate results? I had thought of it more like steroids- helpful over the longer haul. Common anabolic steroids will stay in the system some time and probably cause a failed drug test in the future (nanadrolone is one). This would be very risky during the tour as they are all tested several times druing the race. there used to be quasi legal substances such as androstenedione (a prohormone) which would temporarily raise testosterone levels for about 1-2 hours. really the only prupose was to increase aggressiveness...ie make you work out harder (legal in '2000). these of course were misused and made illegal but they could probably aid a "distance type" excercise with the hopes that testosterone levels would drop before the next test. This is a theory only but maybe he tried a temporary "fix" to simply increase his drive...as evidenced by the 17th stage that I watched. Hopefully there is a natural explanation or an error because his performance was legendary that day. bloos ramon"Revolution is an abrupt change in the form of misgovernment.", Ambrose Bierce. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Casurf1978 0 #22 July 27, 2006 Did a quick Google search and it's the ratio of testosterone and epitestosterone, or T/E. Usually an individuals T/E ratio would constant and any range out of that would be suspect. For example you said groups of men working together could show higher levels. That is true, but the levels would be constant. Let's say you show a 2:1 ratio for the past 14 days and on day 15 it jumps to 4:1 or greater, that would be suspicious. Secondly the could also test for esters of testosterone in blood plasma and if found then you're doping. I'm waiting for what sample B shows before passing any judgment. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites akarunway 1 #23 July 27, 2006 QuoteDid a quick Google search and it's the ratio of testosterone and epitestosterone, or T/E. Usually an individuals T/E ratio would constant and any range out of that would be suspect. For example you said groups of men working together could show higher levels. That is true, but the levels would be constant. Let's say you show a 2:1 ratio for the past 14 days and on day 15 it jumps to 4:1 or greater, that would be suspicious. Secondly the could also test for esters of testosterone in blood plasma and if found then you're doping. I'm waiting for what sample B shows before passing any judgment. From what I read today normal levels of T/E are 1:1. But your mileage may vary I guess you could say. The article also states TDF T/E limits used to be 6:1, now are 4:1I hold it true, whate'er befall; I feel it, when I sorrow most; 'Tis better to have loved and lost Than never to have loved at all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jakee 1,314 #24 July 28, 2006 Floyd Landis has issued a statement of innocence to the press. See here. Some quotes, QuoteThe 30-year-old rider said Friday that his positive test for testosterone showed up levels which "are absolutely natural and produced by my own organism". Landis said he was in Madrid to consult with his legal team and added he was willing to undergo whatever tests the sport's authorities asked of him to establish his innocence. "Until such research has been carried out I ask not to be judged and much less to be sentenced by anyone," Landis told a news conference at a Madrid hotel. "I'd like to make it absolutely clear that I'm not in any doping process," he added. The American added that he wished to state "categorically that my Tour win was exclusively due to many years of training and dedication" to his sport. "I am proud of the fact that I won the tour because I was the strongest candidate - that's my position," Landis said, adding he would be pushing for the B probe to be carried out as soon as possible at the French laboratory of Chatenay-Malabry. In the interview he admitted he "can't be hopeful" of the outcome.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SkyDekker 1,267 #25 July 28, 2006 Quote"I am proud of the fact that I won the tour because I was the strongest candidate - that's my position," Landis said There is no doubt about that. I think the question is how he became the strongest candidate Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 1 of 3 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. 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GTAVercetti 0 #11 July 27, 2006 you are too late. Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #12 July 27, 2006 Damn I should have read further on. It is the same as when all the french riders accused Lance Armstrong of cheating so they all went out and had their balls lapped off to be equal. (Drag coefficient) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #13 July 27, 2006 Quote the International Union of Cyclists who would definitely not stir up shit like this for no reason. good point ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pirana 0 #14 July 27, 2006 Still not seeing a link to news source or a punch line, so unsure if this is a joke or not. My initial assumption was joke." . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,314 #15 July 27, 2006 BBC Guardian Yahoo sportDo you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,267 #16 July 27, 2006 try google news...or just google, plenty of links will pop-up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #17 July 27, 2006 at the moment it's only a positive on the A sample, unconfimed. Properly no names should be given until the B sample is tested (in front of the athlete), but his withdrawl from races stood out. If the B passes, then we'll have Lance II, with the Frenchies bitching and moaning, and the Americans wondering who fucked with the A test. If the B confirms the A failure, dunno, I've always had trouble with the threshold failure standards - men have their own 'monthly' type cycle with testosterone levels and some are going to be higher than others. There have also been trouble in the past with thresholds on the EPO test that lead to revisions upward to avoid [any more] false positives. Does an injection of testerone give immediate results? I had thought of it more like steroids- helpful over the longer haul. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #18 July 27, 2006 After a great American Hero winning this competition for so many years how sad that this has happened.When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #19 July 27, 2006 How do you test for a hormone that occurs naturally in the body? A guy who gets laid every day has a different level from a guy who hasn't in weeks? Groups of men working to together (for example in the military) typically have elevated levels too. So, how can that be tested? Is there an "artificial" hormone?So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,267 #20 July 27, 2006 QuoteHow do you test for a hormone that occurs naturally in the body? A guy who gets laid every day has a different level from a guy who hasn't in weeks? Groups of men working to together (for example in the military) typically have elevated levels too. So, how can that be tested? Is there an "artificial" hormone? Good questions. I would assume there is some form of "normal" range. I would also assume this is not the first time this cyclist has been tested, so there might be documentation with regards to previous levels. First it is time to wait for the results of the tests on sample b. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ramon 0 #21 July 27, 2006 Quote Does an injection of testerone give immediate results? I had thought of it more like steroids- helpful over the longer haul. Common anabolic steroids will stay in the system some time and probably cause a failed drug test in the future (nanadrolone is one). This would be very risky during the tour as they are all tested several times druing the race. there used to be quasi legal substances such as androstenedione (a prohormone) which would temporarily raise testosterone levels for about 1-2 hours. really the only prupose was to increase aggressiveness...ie make you work out harder (legal in '2000). these of course were misused and made illegal but they could probably aid a "distance type" excercise with the hopes that testosterone levels would drop before the next test. This is a theory only but maybe he tried a temporary "fix" to simply increase his drive...as evidenced by the 17th stage that I watched. Hopefully there is a natural explanation or an error because his performance was legendary that day. bloos ramon"Revolution is an abrupt change in the form of misgovernment.", Ambrose Bierce. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Casurf1978 0 #22 July 27, 2006 Did a quick Google search and it's the ratio of testosterone and epitestosterone, or T/E. Usually an individuals T/E ratio would constant and any range out of that would be suspect. For example you said groups of men working together could show higher levels. That is true, but the levels would be constant. Let's say you show a 2:1 ratio for the past 14 days and on day 15 it jumps to 4:1 or greater, that would be suspicious. Secondly the could also test for esters of testosterone in blood plasma and if found then you're doping. I'm waiting for what sample B shows before passing any judgment. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
akarunway 1 #23 July 27, 2006 QuoteDid a quick Google search and it's the ratio of testosterone and epitestosterone, or T/E. Usually an individuals T/E ratio would constant and any range out of that would be suspect. For example you said groups of men working together could show higher levels. That is true, but the levels would be constant. Let's say you show a 2:1 ratio for the past 14 days and on day 15 it jumps to 4:1 or greater, that would be suspicious. Secondly the could also test for esters of testosterone in blood plasma and if found then you're doping. I'm waiting for what sample B shows before passing any judgment. From what I read today normal levels of T/E are 1:1. But your mileage may vary I guess you could say. The article also states TDF T/E limits used to be 6:1, now are 4:1I hold it true, whate'er befall; I feel it, when I sorrow most; 'Tis better to have loved and lost Than never to have loved at all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,314 #24 July 28, 2006 Floyd Landis has issued a statement of innocence to the press. See here. Some quotes, QuoteThe 30-year-old rider said Friday that his positive test for testosterone showed up levels which "are absolutely natural and produced by my own organism". Landis said he was in Madrid to consult with his legal team and added he was willing to undergo whatever tests the sport's authorities asked of him to establish his innocence. "Until such research has been carried out I ask not to be judged and much less to be sentenced by anyone," Landis told a news conference at a Madrid hotel. "I'd like to make it absolutely clear that I'm not in any doping process," he added. The American added that he wished to state "categorically that my Tour win was exclusively due to many years of training and dedication" to his sport. "I am proud of the fact that I won the tour because I was the strongest candidate - that's my position," Landis said, adding he would be pushing for the B probe to be carried out as soon as possible at the French laboratory of Chatenay-Malabry. In the interview he admitted he "can't be hopeful" of the outcome.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,267 #25 July 28, 2006 Quote"I am proud of the fact that I won the tour because I was the strongest candidate - that's my position," Landis said There is no doubt about that. I think the question is how he became the strongest candidate Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
