bch7773 0 #251 July 25, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteDo you really view Israel as a nation that is respectful of international law? They torture people that they imprison. It is hard to follow international law when your enemy is stronger and considers them selves above all laws don’t you think? a very simple question do the palenstians follow international law darius? If given the chance I believe yes. The Palestinians don’t have half the strength as the Israeli army can any one deny that? So you tell me is it possible to fight and follow the rules of war when the enemy your fighting is stronger, has the support of the strongest nation (us we have accelerated weapons delivery to Israel), and has NO regard for international law? you really beleive this? You get mad at everyone for blindly beleiving Isreal is good, then you say stuff like this... you are using the exact same logic, only for the palestinian side. Yes its true palestinians don't have a lot of military might. So you think its ok for them to break international law repeatedly? How about admitting the Palestinians are being SOBs in this conflict too? and obviously Isreal has some regard for international law, or they could have just napalmed all of the palestinians years ago and been done with it. MB 3528, RB 1182 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 1 #252 July 25, 2006 I have an idea. Put camps of 100 Israeli civilians in the center of each of southern Lebanon's towns and cities, and put camps of 100 Lebanese civilians in the center of each of northern Israel's towns and cities. Watch how fast the shelling, bombing and rocketing into population centers stops. Those would be the real peacekeeping forces. PS - I read on cnn.com that they're floating the idea of an Egyptian/Turkish peacekeeping force. Not a bad idea. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
miked10270 0 #253 July 25, 2006 QuoteI read on cnn.com that they're floating the idea of an Egyptian/Turkish peacekeeping force. Not a bad idea. Hmmm... Egypt & Turkey. I'd raise questions of combat experience and religious make-up of such a force. THen again, maybe there'll be fewer volunteers for a peacekeeping force in the wake of this: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/5215366.stm Nice one Israel. That's the way to deal with terrorists. Mike. Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable. Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 1 #254 July 25, 2006 Israel bomb 'kills UN observers' Oopsie! How very embarrassing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,715 #255 July 25, 2006 >Israel bomb 'kills UN observers' >Oopsie! How very embarrassing. There must have been terrorists hiding in their pants. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
miked10270 0 #256 July 25, 2006 QuoteIsrael bomb 'kills UN observers' Oopsie! How very embarrassing. Yeah... Having shelled the FIXED UN Observation post & bunker 14 times, then shelled the rescue party trying to reach the post, Israel bombs it! So... Hardly an isolated mistake? THEN... Israeli Defence Minister Amir Peretz had said a "security zone" in southern Lebanon would be maintained "under the control of our forces if there is not a multinational force". Well... There wouldn't be a multinational force to cover the "security area" if Israel is shelling & bombing & killing them, would there? Hence my concern about a Turkish/Egyption peacekeeping force. I doubt they'd manage to keep the area secure, and would quickly lose credibility to the Israelis (not that they'd have much in the first place). I still think that South Africans would be the optimum choice - Ideally with a mandate to shoot-right-the-fuck-back at anyone attacking them. Mike. Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable. Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,715 #257 July 25, 2006 >>The Israelis at least TRY to target the actual enemy... >with precision weapons? Talk about precision! (see picture attached below) http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2006/07/25/MNGJCK4N0A1.DTL Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #258 July 25, 2006 QuoteQuoteWhat about Turkey? Sure there are some problems with the Kurds but again thats a political issue which is only down in the south. Yeah Turkey is one of the more moderate ones. Not by any means as peaceful as UAE though. But I seem to recall that there was a difference with them from the start, something about an Ottaman Empire. I saw in some history channel special that Mohammed was illiterate and the Koran was written by people he preached to 25 years after his death. For that reason it split into different views with similarities amongst the people he preached to. I find a lot of this history fasinating and worth being studied. But you have to admit there is currently no equivalent (of a non-Islamic religion) in the world to Hamas, Hizbollah or Al Queda. These groups are the greatest threat to the world currently. I can admit to the flaw in my arguement that Islam will ALWAYS make terrorists. But can you explain why Islam is the only religion that will endorse terrorists. As for Hitler, I heard he was actually half Jewish. And while he was trying to annihilate Jews, the Catholic Orphanages were taking Jewish orphans in and raising them "Catholic" to save their lives. I know, personally, Polish Jews who were saved this way. They never really converted to Catholism and the Catholics who saved them did not intend for that to be the case. Now, to suggest that because there was some Christian teaching that Hilter had, that Christianity could somehow be responsible for his actions is proposterous. , Its late here and so I won't reply to each point just now but you misunderstand my point. I wasn't suggesting that Christianity was responsible for the crimes of Hitler, the point I was trying to make was that just becasue a person belives that God is on his side 'Got mit uns' doesn't mean that he really is following the principles of the faith that he claims to belong to no matter what he belives.When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #259 July 25, 2006 QuoteHitler's philosophy was race-based, not religion-based. He didn't care about the Jewish faith, but he believed that the Jews (& non-whites) were an inferior race. What did it say on the belt buckles of the Nazi uniforms?When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trent 0 #260 July 25, 2006 Someone posted something about how it'd be hard to hide the Katyusha rocket launchers since they're large, vehicle mounted platforms. Well, here's another version, easy to put in a car, apartment, whatever and transportable by 2 guys.Oh, hello again! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #261 July 26, 2006 QuoteIsrael bomb 'kills UN observers' Oopsie! How very embarrassing. What's embarrassing, I think, is that through yet another failure of the UN, Hezbolla hasn't been disarmed/dismantled. What have these guys been doing? Sitting by and watching these bastards re-arm? - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #262 July 26, 2006 Quote I mean is it so hard to see why someone would want to take that soldier and stick his gun up his ass? Unfortunately, the Palestinians instead go blow themselves up in a nightclub, or restaurant, or bus. Are they just kind of HOPING that Israeli soldier will be in the blast radius? Or are they just hoping for maximized kills regardless of the innocence of the victims? Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #263 July 26, 2006 QuoteThe use of hostages as human shields places Israel right there with Saddam Hussein and Nazi Germany. A significant degree worse than any terrorist organisation which has the support (or at least co-operation) of the people in which it operates. Come on now, both are bad, but I'd say that a group that intentionally targets and kills civilians is worse than a group that exposes civilians to the possibility of being killed by their own people. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,715 #264 July 26, 2006 >but I'd say that a group that intentionally targets and kills civilians is >worse than a group that exposes civilians to the possibility of being >killed by their own people. Agreed. But both sides are doing that. Witness the recent targeting of ambulances, fleeing civilians and UN buildings by Israel. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 1 #265 July 26, 2006 QuoteQuoteIsrael bomb 'kills UN observers' Oopsie! How very embarrassing. What's embarrassing, I think, is that through yet another failure of the UN, Hezbolla hasn't been disarmed/dismantled. What have these guys been doing? Sitting by and watching these bastards re-arm? Jim Pretty much. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydyvr 0 #266 July 26, 2006 QuoteI hate to tell you this but supporting Israeli is just insane. Hiding your weapons in mosques = insane. That there is a single mosque still standing south of the Litani is proof positive of Israeli compassion. . . =(_8^(1) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michele 1 #267 July 26, 2006 Bill, I was wondering. How does one tell who is Hesbollah and who isn't? Do they have identifiable uniforms? Or are they just like regular civilians, in civilian clothing but with a really big gun hanging 'round their neck? Serious question, honest question... And Trent, thanks for finding those shots. I appreciate it. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
miked10270 0 #268 July 26, 2006 QuoteQuoteIsrael bomb 'kills UN observers' What's embarrassing, I think, is that through yet another failure of the UN, Hezbolla hasn't been disarmed/dismantled. What have these guys been doing? Sitting by and watching these bastards re-arm? Israel shells fixed UN observation post, attacks rescue team, and finally bombs the post killing four obvious neutrals. An obvious sustained attack over a significant time period by THREE different assets, so "mistake" or "friendly-fire" just won't work. Can you SERIOUSLY defend this? Just how DESPERATE are you for Israel to be right in all it does? Israel kills UN troops, therefore it's the dead UN troops' fault!!? The only criticism I have of the UN is that the UN Forces don't have the same mandate they had in Korea. This isn't the first time Israel has attacked & overrrun UN peacekeeping forces, thus showing utter disregard for international opinion and relying on America's veto in The UN Security Council. Like it or not, Israel is acting like a Rogue-State! For example, Iraqis under Saddam Hussein never went as far as shelling & bombing UN Observers! Also, it's not the first time Israel has acted this way towards UN peacekeepers if they were in the way of an Israeli objective. There were similar incidents in Lebanon in the past, which was why Syria was mandated for Lebanese security. As for the "Mini-Katyushas" pictured by Trent, can I ask WHERE the pics came from? I understand that Hezb'Allah used BM-21 & Fajr-3 rockets in their attacks. Those are very definitely truck mounted - need to be for the range to reach Israel from Tyre (which Israel is bombing). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katyusha (bottom of article) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BM-21 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fajr-3 Hence Israel's requirement for a buffer zone to protect them from the Fajr-3. Mike. Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable. Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
akarunway 1 #269 July 26, 2006 Quote>>The Israelis at least TRY to target the actual enemy... >with precision weapons? Talk about precision! (see picture attached below) http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2006/07/25/MNGJCK4N0A1.DTLThis one I have to respond to. When my dad was bombing Vietnam he told me he bombed any target he was ordered to. Including hospitals w/ Red X's on em. Enemies hiding in there don't ya know. No wonder I quit the military. Why where we there in the first place? Just like why are we where we are now? World domination comes to mindI hold it true, whate'er befall; I feel it, when I sorrow most; 'Tis better to have loved and lost Than never to have loved at all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #270 July 26, 2006 QuoteJust how DESPERATE are you for Israel to be right in all it does? I'm not at all desparate for Israel to be right in all that it does. My post was a jab at that giant paper tiger, the UN. It was also a bit of a non-sequiter. However, I can't help but think that this wouldn't be going on had the UN actually enforced resolution 1516 (I think that's the correct resolution). - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
miked10270 0 #271 July 26, 2006 Quote...a jab at that giant paper tiger, the UN... Yeah... Unfortunately it's not possible for the UN to put peacekeepers in with a mandate to ENFORCE the peace fairly & impartially with the automatic US veto of this type of mandate. For example: A 40Km wide "DMZ" - 20 Km into Israel & 20Km into Lebanon with authority to operate beyond the DMZ if the local UN commander deems it neccessary. Surely that's fair? But such a resolution & mandate would never get past the US Veto. The presently proposed "security-zone" is entirely in Lebanon. As such, it's seen as enforcing Israel's peace, while the proposed peacekeeping force have little combat & counter-insurgency reputation or experience; and, being drawn from largely Muslim countries can easily be accused of bias by Israel should it wish to mount it's own military operations. Hence, the current UN plan won't enforce the peace. What IS needed is a FoRCE with a mandate to ensure that if any weapons are going to be fired, then it'll be overwhelmingly the UN force's weapons rather than Israel's or the "Freedom-Fighter's". Mike. Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable. Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,287 #272 July 26, 2006 QuoteI'm not at all desparate for Israel to be right in all that it does. My post was a jab at that giant paper tiger, the UN. Isn't the US hiding behind UN resolutions as one of the justifications of invading Iraq? Sounds like you are trying to suck and blow at the same time.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darius11 12 #273 July 26, 2006 QuoteBill, I was wondering. How does one tell who is Hesbollah and who isn't? Do they have identifiable uniforms? Or are they just like regular civilians, in civilian clothing but with a really big gun hanging 'round their neck? Serious question, honest question... One thing you can be sure of in the picture Bill posted is this. The big red plus sign on the white background that the Israeli Bomb went threw that was no Hezbolah. Serious answer here.I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #274 July 26, 2006 I wonder if perhaps the UN observers were acting as FDC for Hizbollah. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
miked10270 0 #275 July 26, 2006 QuoteI wonder if perhaps the UN observers were acting as FDC for Hizbollah. The Austrian? The Canadian? The Chinaman? The Finn? That'd be a pretty amazing coalition against Israel! Mike. Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable. Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
