Israeli Tanks lined up and ready to roll

[Skyrad 0]

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Oh right. So when the Palestinian terrorists use innocent Palestinian civilians to hide behind it is evil, because Hamas and Hezbollah say they are on their side. But when the Israeli's hide behind innocent Palestinian civilians it's fine because they are the enemy! Even though they are not terrorists and therefore not the enemy, but they are 'cos they look like them and stuff and...... My brain hurts

I didn't say it was ok. As a matter of fact Israel did not say it was ok. Did you not read the article. What I said was its not the same thing and its not.

To go a bit further I do think its not as bad.
,

What they say and what they do are two different things.
Of course you don't see it 'as bad' because you view Arabs and Muslims as Untermenschen. Nice to have you out of the closet.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Jimbo 0]

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Oh so cowardly shit like this (See picture) is aceptable. I ask again where are your pictures of Hamaz and Hizbollah hiding behind human shields?
Face it your views are based on uninformed racism against Arabs and Muslims who you simply view as sub human.

Come on, in the first picture it looks as though they're arresting/detaining somebody - not hiding behind him. Surely you can see that. It's better than a simple execution, wouldn't you agree? The second picture, well, without context it looks pretty foul.

-
Jim

"Like" - The modern day comma
Good bye, my friends. You are missed.

[Skyrad 0]

Quote

Quote

Oh so cowardly shit like this (See picture) is aceptable. I ask again where are your pictures of Hamaz and Hizbollah hiding behind human shields?
Face it your views are based on uninformed racism against Arabs and Muslims who you simply view as sub human.

Come on, in the first picture it looks as though they're arresting/detaining somebody - not hiding behind him. Surely you can see that. The second picture, well, without context it looks pretty foul.

-
Jim

View the previous links and you will see that the first picture is actually of a Palastinian being used as a human shield.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Steel 0]

Quote

Oh so cowardly shit like this (See picture) is aceptable. I ask again where are your pictures of Hamaz and Hizbollah hiding behind human shields?
---------------------------------
Actually I did recently see plattoon of Islamic women from one of those two group with with rocket launchers and machine guns, saying that they too were ready to fight. Then it was explained that they were more for a show of moral support but either way its no secret that human shields are common in the Islamic world.
============================
Face it your views are based on uninformed racism against Arabs and Muslims who you simply view as sub human.

Actually I have nothing against Christian, Agnostic or Aethiest arabs. On the contrary I have quite a few good freinds like that. Three of them I can think of that I work with are from Lebanon and a couple from Syria. I feel sorry for them because I know many of them have family that could be blown up as we speak. But just as well I feel sorry for freinds in Tel Aviv. And more importantly, I understand who started it and on whose territory it started.
,

If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass.
Can't think of anything I need
No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound.
Nothing to eat, no books to read.

[Jimbo 0]

It came from this article http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4314898.stm and it doesn't actually say that the person in the photo is being used as a human shield. It's likely what the press calls stock footage or a stock photo. Now, that said, I won't deny that the Israeli's have never done that - the article makes it quite clear that they have.

-
Jim

"Like" - The modern day comma
Good bye, my friends. You are missed.

[Darius11 12]

Quote

Surely you can see that. It's better than a simple execution, wouldn't you agree?

Hold on let me blink. No you really wroth that.

So the option given to the Palestinian people by Israel is get executed or act as a humane shield for Israeli Soldiers?

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[Skyrad 0]

Quote

Quote

Oh so cowardly shit like this (See picture) is aceptable. I ask again where are your pictures of Hamaz and Hizbollah hiding behind human shields?
---------------------------------
Actually I did recently see plattoon of Islamic women from one of those two group with with rocket launchers and machine guns, saying that they too were ready to fight. Then it was explained that they were more for a show of moral support but either way its no secret that human shields are common in the Islamic world.
============================
Face it your views are based on uninformed racism against Arabs and Muslims who you simply view as sub human.

Actually I have nothing against Christian, Agnostic or Aethiest arabs. On the contrary I have quite a few good freinds like that. Three of them I can think of that I work with are from Lebanon and a couple from Syria. I feel sorry for them because I know many of them have family that could be blown up as we speak. But just as well I feel sorry for freinds in Tel Aviv. And more importantly, I understand who started it and on whose territory it started.
,

So its just Muslims you view as Untermenschen. Thanks for the clarification.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Jimbo 0]

Quote

So the option given to the Palestinian people by Israel is get executed or act as a humane shield for Israeli Soldiers?

I never said that.

You took quite a leap to get there, did the landing hurt?

-
Jim

"Like" - The modern day comma
Good bye, my friends. You are missed.

[Darius11 12]

Quote

Come on, in the first picture it looks as though they're arresting/detaining somebody - not hiding behind him. Surely you can see that. It's better than a simple execution, wouldn't you agree? The second picture, well, without context it looks pretty foul.

above is your complet post what did i misunderstand?

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[Jimbo 0]

That there were/are only two options.

-
Jim

"Like" - The modern day comma
Good bye, my friends. You are missed.

[billvon 2,395]

>Again you and Bill can spin this all you want but it still not the same thing.

I didn't say it was the same thing. I did say both sides have not cared much for civilian lives.

>An Israeli fleet forces Israeli women and children to march in front
>of them to avoid Hezbollah or Hamas from attacking them.
>What do you think the terrorists would do? Do you think that they
> would think about world opinion or that they would gun them all
> down without thinking twice about it?

They'd gun them all down.

Case #2 - The Israelis drop leaflets telling women and children to evacuate a city. They then see cars streaming out of the city with white flags flying from their antennas. Do you think they would bomb the escapees?

Answer - yes, they have. They are targeting fleeing civilians even WITHOUT military forces marching behind them.

Defend Israel all you want. They are behaving abominably as well.

[miked10270 0]

{Israelies using Palestinians as human shields}

Quote

To go a bit further I do think its not as bad.

It's Every bit as bad. Using civilians as a human shield is surely an absolute.

to go a bit further, I'd say it was WORSE. Firstly because while Hamas & Hezb'Allah may use folk as willing human shields, the Israelis kidnap civilians arbitrarily for the same purpose. Secondly, It utterly destroys Israel's claims to any moral right in this conflict.

The use of hostages as human shields places Israel right there with Saddam Hussein and Nazi Germany. A significant degree worse than any terrorist organisation which has the support (or at least co-operation) of the people in which it operates.

Mike.

Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable.

Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode.

[Steel 0]

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Quote

Quote

Oh so cowardly shit like this (See picture) is aceptable. I ask again where are your pictures of Hamaz and Hizbollah hiding behind human shields?
---------------------------------
Actually I did recently see plattoon of Islamic women from one of those two group with with rocket launchers and machine guns, saying that they too were ready to fight. Then it was explained that they were more for a show of moral support but either way its no secret that human shields are common in the Islamic world.
============================
Face it your views are based on uninformed racism against Arabs and Muslims who you simply view as sub human.

Actually I have nothing against Christian, Agnostic or Aethiest arabs. On the contrary I have quite a few good freinds like that. Three of them I can think of that I work with are from Lebanon and a couple from Syria. I feel sorry for them because I know many of them have family that could be blown up as we speak. But just as well I feel sorry for freinds in Tel Aviv. And more importantly, I understand who started it and on whose territory it started.
,

So its just Muslims you view as Untermenschen. Thanks for the clarification.

Have you never read any of my posts before? Actually I will go one step further and say its not fair to blame all Muslims, because most of them were born into this faith as opposed to having chosen it. Women who don't follow it are more likely to receive and "honor killing" than anything else. As a true Muslim, I suspect you don't need me to explain the "honor killings".
Now to finally state my opinion, I blame Islam. I think its a psychotic religion/cult that will always come back to violence and I believe that until it is irradicated there will be wars over religion. Now so that you know in advance, I will not spend the rest of my day responding to posts of people trying to dig back 1000 years something they can blame Christians for. And just as well I will not respond to somebody mentioning something horrific that was done by somebody who was just randomly raised is another faith. I am obviously addressing opinions voiced by clerics who speak for a religion, kind of like the Mosque from Jersey City, NJ that funded the 1993 world trade center bombing or the prime minister of Iran calling for the destruction of Israel or the Iatola calling for the execution of Salmon Rushbee because he was offended by his book or the violence in Denmark over the cartoons, I mean the list just goes on and on. I just don't have enough time to play this game again.
,
,

If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass.
Can't think of anything I need
No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound.
Nothing to eat, no books to read.

[Skyrad 0]

Quote

{Israelies using Palestinians as human shields}

Quote

To go a bit further I do think its not as bad.

It's EVery bit as bad. Using civilians as a human shield is surely an absolute.

to go a bit further, I'd say it was WORSE. Firstly because while Hamas & Hezb'Allah may use folk as willing human shields, the Israelis kidnap civilians arbitrarily for the same purpose. Secondly, It utterly destroys Israel's claims to any moral right in this conflict.

The use of human shields & hostages places Israel right there with Saddam Hussein and Nazi Germany. A significant degree worse than any terrorist organisation which has the support (or at least co-operation) of the people in which it operates.

Mike.

He doesn't belive that Muslim life has the same value as Jewish or Christian life thats why he doesn't think its as bad. He views Muslims as Untermenschen just as the Israeli govenrment and soldiers do.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Steel 0]

Quote

{Israelies using Palestinians as human shields}

Quote

To go a bit further I do think its not as bad.

It's Every bit as bad. Using civilians as a human shield is surely an absolute.

to go a bit further, I'd say it was WORSE. Firstly because while Hamas & Hezb'Allah may use folk as willing human shields, the Israelis kidnap civilians arbitrarily for the same purpose. Secondly, It utterly destroys Israel's claims to any moral right in this conflict.

The use of hostages as human shields places Israel right there with Saddam Hussein and Nazi Germany. A significant degree worse than any terrorist organisation which has the support (or at least co-operation) of the people in which it operates.

Mike.

I understand your point. However, this is my take on it. Somebody recently failed trying trying to break into my truck but broke my door handle. Now, I wish I could beat the ever-living shit out of this guy. So I am by no means a fan of his activity. However, I do think less of a thief who is willing to steal from his own mother, family or freinds. And I don't believe that all of these women used as human shields do so voluntarily. I have heard of reports where they were otherwised threatened with "honor killings" instead.
,
,

If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass.
Can't think of anything I need
No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound.
Nothing to eat, no books to read.

[Skyrad 0]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Quote

Oh so cowardly shit like this (See picture) is aceptable. I ask again where are your pictures of Hamaz and Hizbollah hiding behind human shields?
---------------------------------
Actually I did recently see plattoon of Islamic women from one of those two group with with rocket launchers and machine guns, saying that they too were ready to fight. Then it was explained that they were more for a show of moral support but either way its no secret that human shields are common in the Islamic world.
============================
Face it your views are based on uninformed racism against Arabs and Muslims who you simply view as sub human.

Actually I have nothing against Christian, Agnostic or Aethiest arabs. On the contrary I have quite a few good freinds like that. Three of them I can think of that I work with are from Lebanon and a couple from Syria. I feel sorry for them because I know many of them have family that could be blown up as we speak. But just as well I feel sorry for freinds in Tel Aviv. And more importantly, I understand who started it and on whose territory it started.
,

So its just Muslims you view as Untermenschen. Thanks for the clarification.

Have you never read any of my posts before? Actually I will go one step further and say its not fair to blame all Muslims, because most of them were born into this faith as opposed to having chosen it. Women who don't follow it are more likely to receive and "honor killing" than anything else. As a true Muslim, I suspect you don't need me to explain the "honor killings".
Now to finally state my opinion, I blame Islam. I think its a psychotic religion/cult that will always come back to violence and I believe that until it is irradicated there will be wars over religion. Now so that you know in advance, I will not spend the rest of my day responding to posts of people trying to dig back 1000 years something they can blame Christians for. And just as well I will not respond to somebody mentioning something horrific that was done by somebody who was just randomly raised is another faith. I am obviously addressing opinions voiced by clerics who speak for a religion, kind of like the Mosque from Jersey City, NJ that funded the 1993 world trade center bombing or the prime minister of Iran calling for the destruction of Israel or the Iatola calling for the execution of Salmon Rushbee because he was offended by his book or the violence in Denmark over the cartoons, I mean the list just goes on and on. I just don't have enough time to play this game again.
,
,

Hitler did what he did in the firm belife that he was a Christian and was caring out Gods will. I could go onto name dozens of others but I hope you get the point. People of every religion have used God to justify the most terrible of acts. No doubt you'll find some reference from the Koran to 'prove' what a blood thirsty bunch the Muslims are, and I could pull out dozens of references from the Bible to counter the point. Islam isn't the problem any more than Christianity or Judaism is. The problem is a Socio economic, political one which varies regionally. With Israel there is alot of issues on both sides. To blame it all on Islam is ridculous and lazy at best.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Darius11 12]

Quote

I will not spend the rest of my day responding to posts of people trying to dig back 1000 years something they can blame Christians for.

Your attitude explains why you have such a close minded view. You state what you believe but when facts (that you obviously know exist) are brought to your attention you choose not to see them.


At least your honest, and now we know you are not searching for answers or another point of view your goal is to spread hate.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[Steel 0]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Quote

Quote

Oh so cowardly shit like this (See picture) is aceptable. I ask again where are your pictures of Hamaz and Hizbollah hiding behind human shields?
---------------------------------
Actually I did recently see plattoon of Islamic women from one of those two group with with rocket launchers and machine guns, saying that they too were ready to fight. Then it was explained that they were more for a show of moral support but either way its no secret that human shields are common in the Islamic world.
============================
Face it your views are based on uninformed racism against Arabs and Muslims who you simply view as sub human.

Actually I have nothing against Christian, Agnostic or Aethiest arabs. On the contrary I have quite a few good freinds like that. Three of them I can think of that I work with are from Lebanon and a couple from Syria. I feel sorry for them because I know many of them have family that could be blown up as we speak. But just as well I feel sorry for freinds in Tel Aviv. And more importantly, I understand who started it and on whose territory it started.
,

So its just Muslims you view as Untermenschen. Thanks for the clarification.

Have you never read any of my posts before? Actually I will go one step further and say its not fair to blame all Muslims, because most of them were born into this faith as opposed to having chosen it. Women who don't follow it are more likely to receive and "honor killing" than anything else. As a true Muslim, I suspect you don't need me to explain the "honor killings".
Now to finally state my opinion, I blame Islam. I think its a psychotic religion/cult that will always come back to violence and I believe that until it is irradicated there will be wars over religion. Now so that you know in advance, I will not spend the rest of my day responding to posts of people trying to dig back 1000 years something they can blame Christians for. And just as well I will not respond to somebody mentioning something horrific that was done by somebody who was just randomly raised is another faith. I am obviously addressing opinions voiced by clerics who speak for a religion, kind of like the Mosque from Jersey City, NJ that funded the 1993 world trade center bombing or the prime minister of Iran calling for the destruction of Israel or the Iatola calling for the execution of Salmon Rushbee because he was offended by his book or the violence in Denmark over the cartoons, I mean the list just goes on and on. I just don't have enough time to play this game again.
,
,

Hitler did what he did in the frim belife that he was a Christian and was carring out Gods will. I could go onto name dozens of others but I hope you get the point. People of every religion have used God to justify the most terrible of acts. No doubt you'll find some reference from the Koran to 'prove' what a blood thirsty bunch the Muslims are, and I could pull out dozens of references from the Bible to counter the point. Islam isn't the problem any more than Christianity is. The problem is a Socio economic one which varies regionally. With Israel there is alot of issues on both sides. To blame it all on Islam is ridculous and lazy at best.

I would quickly state that the facts dispute what you say. However to be completely honest there is one specific instance that does have me baffled about that arguement. UAE. I don't really underststand how a place 96% Muslim can be so pleasant and not troublesome. Some would be quick to say its because they are all rich, but if that was the case then Saudi Arabia would not be such a breeding ground for terrorists. I would say that UAE is hope for that faith but I am actually thinking there must be something different about their faith. Maybe they are really agnostic and just claim to be Muslim, or are all Shieit or Sunni. I am not sure. But something is different.
,

If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass.
Can't think of anything I need
No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound.
Nothing to eat, no books to read.

[Skyrad 0]

What about Turkey? Sure there are some problems with the Kurds but again thats a political issue which is only down in the south.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Trent 0]

Quote

Excellent example, Trent.

WorldNet Daily: Somewhere to the right of Hitler & Pinochet. Only exists to make The National Enquirer look credible.

Thus we can assess the likely truth of a given article and it's credibility.

You just asked for articles, you didn't specify any approved sources.

Hey, go do your own research. There's more than one article that questions the veracity of the Al Dura incident. In fact, WorldNet was talking about the LA Times article that suggested fraud.

And for the pic of the Israeli soldier "pointing" his gun at a kid with his family... looks like an optical illusion to me. The Israeli is way more in the foreground and looks like he's not really pointing directly at the kid.

Oh, hello again!

[Steel 0]

Quote

What about Turkey? Sure there are some problems with the Kurds but again thats a political issue which is only down in the south.

Yeah Turkey is one of the more moderate ones. Not by any means as peaceful as UAE though. But I seem to recall that there was a difference with them from the start, something about an Ottaman Empire.
I saw in some history channel special that Mohammed was illiterate and the Koran was written by people he preached to 25 years after his death. For that reason it split into different views with similarities amongst the people he preached to.
I find a lot of this history fasinating and worth being studied. But you have to admit there is currently no equivalent (of a non-Islamic religion) in the world to Hamas, Hizbollah or Al Queda. These groups are the greatest threat to the world currently.
I can admit to the flaw in my arguement that Islam will ALWAYS make terrorists. But can you explain why Islam is the only religion that will endorse terrorists. As for Hitler, I heard he was actually half Jewish. And while he was trying to annihilate Jews, the Catholic Orphanages were taking Jewish orphans in and raising them "Catholic" to save their lives. I know, personally, Polish Jews who were saved this way. They never really converted to Catholism and the Catholics who saved them did not intend for that to be the case.

Now, to suggest that because there was some Christian teaching that Hilter had, that Christianity could somehow be responsible for his actions is proposterous.
,

If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass.
Can't think of anything I need
No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound.
Nothing to eat, no books to read.

[SpeedRacer 1]

Hitler's philosophy was race-based, not religion-based.

He didn't care about the Jewish faith, but he believed that the Jews (& non-whites) were an inferior race.

Speed Racer
--------------------------------------------------

[miked10270 0]

Quote

Hitler's philosophy was race-based, not religion-based.

He didn't care about the Jewish faith, but he believed that the Jews (& non-whites) were an inferior race.

Just to drive down that particular side road a little further...

Was Hitler actually anti-semitic? Or was it simply that they were a convenient issue having weathered the economic collapses of Germany better than the general population? In much the same way as ALL politicians go to church on Sundays.

Julius Streicher was a committed anti-semitic shit. Himmler had some amazing views on race, particularly so for someone who looked like Himmler! But was it an actual belief, or was it pandering to the German desire (at the time) to blame someone (who they could get at) for their economic chaos?

=================

Now... Back to the current Israeli - Palestinian - Lebanese conflict and folk trying to defend the indefensible, the criminal, and the incompetent.

Mike.

Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable.

Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode.

[miked10270 0]

Quote

Quote

Excellent example, Trent.

WorldNet Daily...

Thus we can assess the likely truth of a given article and it's credibility.

You just asked for articles, you didn't specify any approved sources.

Hi Trent,

I meant what I said. Worldnet Daily is a good example of using the overall character of a website to determine it's "impartiality". I assume that's how you used it.

Were you actually arguing about the 6 year old Al-Dura incident, then I'm sure you'd have used something like:

http://www.camera.org/index.asp?x_article=856&x_context=3

Which demonstrates the origins of the accusation.

Having said that, I wouldn't normally trust Camera.Org as far as I could throw them!! Viz:

http://www.camera.org/index.asp?x_context=4&x_outlet=12&x_article=811

is where Camera.Org claim a study by Glasgow University shows anti-Israeli bias in the BBC... While the actual study:

http://www.gla.ac.uk/departments/sociology/units/media/israel.htm

shows the complete opposite.

Mike.

Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable.

Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode.

[Amazon 7]

Quote

I agree that both sides need to be disarmed and a 3rd party needs to take over security for both sides. Someone mentioned the Swiss guards, or any other unbiased group would be great.

I hearby authorize Darius to form a disarmament committee to ensure that ALL of the Islamic States that have avowed to destroy Israel have a timetable to make all of their military armaments dissappear permanently.

I am sure that once that is set up.. that the Israelis will disarm with our help... and both sides will finally all live in peace.