warpedskydiver 0 #1 July 21, 2006 Looks like Hezbollah miscalculated and now will feel the effects of Israeli Armor and Infantry. It would really suck to be them.(Hezbollah) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darius11 12 #2 July 21, 2006 I have a feeling their membership and sympathy for their cause is growing by every bomb Israel drops. I think some people are finally seeing why groups like HAMAS and Hezbollah came to be.I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Channman 2 #3 July 21, 2006 > I think some people are finally seeing why groups like HAMAS and Hezbollah came to be. And I think some people are finally seeing an oppertunity to remove them from the face of the Earth i.e. HAMAS and Hezbollah, and be remembered nomore. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,379 #4 July 21, 2006 >And I think some people are finally seeing an oppertunity to remove > them from the face of the Earth i.e. HAMAS and Hezbollah, and be > remembered nomore. And some are salivating over the prospect of more war, safe behind their computers. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #5 July 21, 2006 Unfortunately they won't be removed (or at least destroyed) by force. Force will weaken them and force them to scurry back into their respective holes for a few years, but they'll be back. - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darius11 12 #6 July 21, 2006 Trust me I don’t doubt that the Israelis would like to exterminate all their neighbors but they will not succeed. Every time they kill and spill more blood even people who did not like these groups are beginning to understand why they have been doing what they have for years.I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
micro 0 #7 July 21, 2006 QuoteTrust me I don’t doubt that the Israelis would like to exterminate all their neighbors but they will not succeed. Every time they kill and spill more blood even people who did not like these groups are beginning to understand why they have been doing what they have for years. Exterminate their neighbors or defend their nation from enemies? You make it sound like HAMAS and Hezbollah are legitimate entities that should be supported! I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bch7773 0 #8 July 21, 2006 QuoteQuoteTrust me I don’t doubt that the Israelis would like to exterminate all their neighbors but they will not succeed. Every time they kill and spill more blood even people who did not like these groups are beginning to understand why they have been doing what they have for years. Exterminate their neighbors or defend their nation from enemies? You make it sound like HAMAS and Hezbollah are legitimate entities that should be supported! you both are right. hezbollah and hamas deserve to be wiped off the face of this earth. however, isreal's plan might wipe out the current crop, but they will grow back in greater numbers. you can kill terrorists, but you can't end terrorism MB 3528, RB 1182 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,379 #9 July 21, 2006 >You make it sound like HAMAS and Hezbollah are legitimate entities >that should be supported! Hezbollah is a political party that has no independent legitimacy. Hamas, however, is the democratically elected government of the Palestinians. You may indeed be correct that they should not be supported, but they are as legitimate as any other democratically elected government. (Note that "legitimate" does not equal "everything they do is OK.") Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
miked10270 0 #10 July 21, 2006 QuoteExterminate their neighbors or defend their nation from enemies? You make it sound like HAMAS and Hezbollah are legitimate entities that should be supported! I don't think for one minute that Darius is suggesting that. Let's be honest. Neither side is significantly better behaved or justified than the other. I really see Israel's reaction to these terrorist attacks as reminiscent of Nazi Germany's behaviour in occupied countries, viz: "If you harm a German Soldier, we will kill 10 or 50 civilians!" Israel's behaviour has been neither understandable nor defendable. Nor is Hamas' or Hezb'Allah's behaviour defendable. In effect, NEITHER is worthy of support. Mike. Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable. Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darius11 12 #11 July 21, 2006 Lets see Israel is bombing the whole infrastructure of a nation without any regard for the inocent lives that are being lost every day. The only people who are able to strike back are HAMAS, and Hezbollah I think they are becoming more legitimate every day. It is hard to look the destruction Israel is causing and has caused in the past and then view them as a victim of terrorism. Israel is a terrorist nation. It has no regard for international law or the Geneva Convention. What describes a terrorist? Killing civilians Check, No regard for international law CHECK, Not respecting boarders CHECK. What else do you want? Just because they kill people by bombs drooped for airplanes doesn’t exempt them for being called Terrorists.I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #12 July 21, 2006 QuoteHamas, however, is the democratically elected government of the Palestinians. Correction: the majority of the democratically elected Palestinian government are members of Hamas. Hamas and that government are not mutually inclusive. That government also has non-Hamas members. And there are members of Hamas who are not members of that government. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,379 #13 July 21, 2006 >Correction: the majority of the democratically elected Palestinian > government are members of Hamas. Hamas and that government are >not mutually inclusive. True. It would be more accurate to say that Hamas was chosen through a demoratic election to lead the Palestinian government. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
idrankwhat 0 #14 July 21, 2006 QuoteLets see Israel is bombing the whole infrastructure of a nation without any regard for the inocent lives that are being lost every day. The only people who are able to strike back are HAMAS, and Hezbollah I think they are becoming more legitimate every day. It is hard to look the destruction Israel is causing and has caused in the past and then view them as a victim of terrorism. Israel is a terrorist nation. It has no regard for international law or the Geneva Convention. What describes a terrorist? Killing civilians Check, No regard for international law CHECK, Not respecting boarders CHECK. What else do you want? Just because they kill people by bombs drooped for airplanes doesn’t exempt them for being called Terrorists. I pretty much agree with this entire sentiment and it saddens me that as a US taxpayer that I'm helping to fund this behavior and that my leadership is taking an active part in the death and destruction. I also however agree with miked10270 in that both sides are behaving irresponsibly. This incursion will do nothing but bolster support for Hamas and Hezbollah in the same manner that our invasion of Iraq has been an effective recruiting tool for al-Qaeda. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
miked10270 0 #15 July 21, 2006 Just a quick update... Current civilian death toll from the Israeli / Hezb'Allah conflict (from the Beeb): 377 Lebanese. 34 Israeli. Apparently, some 65% of the Lebanese deaths are CHILDREN!! Perhaps the Israeli tactic for quashing Hezb'Allah is to ensure that no-one grows up to become a terrorist... Or should that be Anti-Israeli Terrorist!!? Mike. Edited to add: Further update. Israel has crossed the ground border into Lebanon... So here we go. Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable. Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #16 July 21, 2006 QuoteCurrent civilian death toll from the Israeli / Hezb'Allah conflict (from the Beeb): 377 Lebanese. 34 Israeli. Apparently, some 65% of the Lebanese deaths are CHILDREN! Perhaps the Israeli tactic for quashing Hezb'Allah is to ensure that no-one grows up to become a terrorist... Or should that be Anti-Israeli Terrorist!!? Edited to add: Further update. Israel has crossed the ground border into Lebanon... So here we go. You're not exactly showing an even keel here. I wonder what the numbers would look like if you included death on each side for the last year or so. How many suicide bombers, car bombs, and other attacks have been launched against Israeli non-combatants? How does that compare to the number of Arab* non-combatants killed? I honestly don't know how those numbers would work out. I'm just stating that you can't only iclude deaths from the retaliation. You have to consider all the recent actions of both sides. Otherwise it would be like someone who disagrees with you talking about the number of Israelis killed in the last wave of bombings without considering recent Arab* deaths. * - for lack of a better all inclusive term to describe Israel's neighbors/enemies ps - Both sides have committed terrible acts, but when attackikng foes I can understand, if not condone, attacking infrastructure that allows them to attack you. It's happened in nearly every major war for as long as there have been wars. I can't understand or condone is detonating a car in a busy market targeting civilians. Both sides are doing "bad" things, but one seems demonstrably worse.witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterblaster72 0 #17 July 21, 2006 Is that what you meant? Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #18 July 21, 2006 QuoteIs that what you meant? Actually not at all, or I would have said so. Or does it please you to think that way? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
miked10270 0 #19 July 21, 2006 QuoteQuoteCurrent civilian death toll from the Israeli / Hezb'Allah conflict (from the Beeb): 377 Lebanese. 34 Israeli. Apparently, some 65% of the Lebanese deaths are CHILDREN! Perhaps the Israeli tactic for quashing Hezb'Allah is to ensure that no-one grows up to become a terrorist... Or should that be Anti-Israeli Terrorist!!? Edited to add: Further update. Israel has crossed the ground border into Lebanon... So here we go. You're not exactly showing an even keel here.... They're bald numbers Kennedy. My opinion... Israel is reacting out of all proportion, and appear to be targeting civilians and civilian infrastructure quite deliberately. If they WERE trying to target Hezb'Allah, then wouldn't a small-scale cross-border raid or artillery / airstrike response to the rocket launch site be more appropriate & effective? The Katyushas used by Hezb'Allah aren't exactly invisible when they fire! I really don't see the difference between car bombs detonated in a street and a 500lb GP bomb dropped into a street from a jet - other than the 500lb bomb will cause more damage.. Like it or not, in the last week or so, Israel has killed over 200 Lebanese children and 100+ Lebanese civilians. The children are hardly combatants. So... Is this a terrorist act? Does it make Israel a "Terrorist-State"? I'm trying VERY hard not to say yes... But the evidence is fast becoming irrefutable. Mike. Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable. Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #20 July 21, 2006 Quote>And I think some people are finally seeing an oppertunity to remove > them from the face of the Earth i.e. HAMAS and Hezbollah, and be > remembered nomore. And some are salivating over the prospect of more war, safe behind their computers. Hizbollah must be dealt with, decisively, and conclusively. Lebanon can't do it (by their own admission), and even if they could, I don't think they would out of fear of reprisals from Syria (as proxy for Iran). In 2000, Israel withdrew from Southern Lebanon (as everyone had been clammoring for decades) in the interests of deflating tensions. Later, they withdrew from Gaza, same interests. July, 2006, after Hizbollah amassed thousands of short range rocket artillery, they begin a coordinated attack with Hamas against Israel. Godspeed to the Israeli armed forces.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,379 #21 July 21, 2006 >Hizbollah must be dealt with, decisively, and conclusively. This will just strengthen them. The Israelis have been dealing with terrorism "decisively and conclusively" for decades now - how's that been working for them? At some point you have to admit that what you're doing isn't working. Until you do that, history will continue to repeat. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
micro 0 #22 July 21, 2006 QuoteIsrael is a terrorist nation. how absurd. Israel is simply acting as a nation that will not let it's surrounding enemies destroy it, which they have vowed to do. Israel's reaction may be extreme, but considering what the nation of Israel has had to suffer t/o all of history, I can't really blame them, except that it sucks badly that innocent lives are being taken as a result of their actoins. But then, both sides are guilty of that. I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydyvr 0 #23 July 21, 2006 QuoteThe Israelis have been dealing with terrorism "decisively and conclusively" for decades now - how's that been working for them? Great! They still exist, much to the chagrin of their opponents. . . =(_8^(1) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
micro 0 #24 July 21, 2006 QuoteQuoteThe Israelis have been dealing with terrorism "decisively and conclusively" for decades now - how's that been working for them? Great! They still exist, much to the chagrin of their opponents. That's right. They still exist. And other nations/races are still hell-bent on their anhililation. But it isn't going to happen. I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #25 July 21, 2006 QuoteLooks like Hezbollah miscalculated and now will feel the effects of Israeli Armor and Infantry. It would really suck to be them.(Hezbollah) Just as much as it will for the young Israeli soldiers who get hit as well. What a bloody mess.When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
