billvon 2,739 #26 July 20, 2006 >Please show me where it states Echelon listens to conversations >as in wiretapping. ECHELON listens to virtually every phone call made on the planet - without warrants or judicial approval of any sort. It looks for suspicious words. If it hears any that match its dictionary, it records the call for investigators - again, without warrants or judicial approvals of any sort. -------------------------------- "In the greatest surveillance effort ever established, the US National Security Agency (NSA) has created a global spy system, codename ECHELON, which captures and analyzes virtually every phone call, fax, email and telex message sent anywhere in the world. ECHELON is controlled by the NSA and is operated in conjunction with the Government Communications Head Quarters (GCHQ) of England, the Communications Security Establishment (CSE) of Canada, the Australian Defense Security Directorate (DSD), and the General Communications Security Bureau (GCSB) of New Zealand. These organizations are bound together under a secret 1948 agreement, UKUSA, whose terms and text remain under wraps even today. The ECHELON system is fairly simple in design: position intercept stations all over the world to capture all satellite, microwave, cellular and fiber-optic communications traffic, and then process this information through the massive computer capabilities of the NSA, including advanced voice recognition and optical character recognition (OCR) programs, and look for code words or phrases (known as the ECHELON “Dictionary”) that will prompt the computers to flag the message for recording and transcribing for future analysis. Intelligence analysts at each of the respective “listening stations” maintain separate keyword lists for them to analyze any conversation or document flagged by the system, which is then forwarded to the respective intelligence agency headquarters that requested the intercept. " ---------------------------------- http://fly.hiwaay.net/~pspoole/echelon.html About the only place you can go from here is a semantics argument, something about how it's a computer so it can't "listen" or something. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,351 #27 July 21, 2006 QuotePlease show me where it states Echelon listens to conversations as in wiretapping. QuoteEvery word of every message in the frequencies and channels selected at a station is automatically searched.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,827 #28 July 21, 2006 You ONLY know what has been pried out of the government against its will. This administration can NOT be trusted to respect the Constitution. It has shown that over and over. Anyone that trusts this administration is a fool.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #29 July 21, 2006 Quoteand look for code words or phrases (known as the ECHELON “Dictionary”) that will prompt the computers to flag the message for recording and transcribing for future analysis. Your argument that Echelon "listens" to conversations is just plain silly. It listens for certain words as your own definition above clearly points out. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,739 #30 July 21, 2006 >Your argument that Echelon "listens" to conversations is just plain silly. Echelon listens to every single word you utter, looking for specific words and phrases. That's how it works, silly semantic arguments aside. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,351 #31 July 21, 2006 QuoteIt listens for certain words By listening to every word. It says so in every link you've posted.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #32 July 21, 2006 Quote>Your argument that Echelon "listens" to conversations is just plain silly. Echelon listens to every single word you utter, looking for specific words and phrases. That's how it works, silly semantic arguments aside. Correct. It listens for words, it does not listen to the conversation which is a complilation of words to form an idea or express a thought. Glad you finally agree. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #33 July 21, 2006 QuoteQuoteIt listens for certain words By listening to every word. It says so in every link you've posted. If I spoke Chinese and you didn't but you knew a couple of words in Chinese, would you be able to understand what I was saying just by being able to pick out those few words you knew? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SStrasser 0 #34 July 21, 2006 "would you be able to understand what I was saying just by being able to pick out those few words you knew" No, but you would still be listening. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,827 #35 July 21, 2006 QuoteQuote>Your argument that Echelon "listens" to conversations is just plain silly. Echelon listens to every single word you utter, looking for specific words and phrases. That's how it works, silly semantic arguments aside. Correct. It listens for words, it does not listen to the conversation which is a complilation of words to form an idea or express a thought. Glad you finally agree. You know this how? What is your source?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #36 July 21, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuote>Your argument that Echelon "listens" to conversations is just plain silly. Echelon listens to every single word you utter, looking for specific words and phrases. That's how it works, silly semantic arguments aside. Correct. It listens for words, it does not listen to the conversation which is a complilation of words to form an idea or express a thought. Glad you finally agree. You know this how? What is your source? Billvon's post. If you need more verification, take it up with him. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,827 #37 July 21, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuote>Your argument that Echelon "listens" to conversations is just plain silly. Echelon listens to every single word you utter, looking for specific words and phrases. That's how it works, silly semantic arguments aside. Correct. It listens for words, it does not listen to the conversation which is a complilation of words to form an idea or express a thought. Glad you finally agree. You know this how? What is your source? Billvon's post. If you need more verification, take it up with him. Bill did NOT say that.. He quoted this: " Intelligence analysts at each of the respective “listening stations” maintain separate keyword lists for them to analyze any conversation or document flagged by the system, which is then forwarded to the respective intelligence agency headquarters that requested the intercept. " Which suggests to me that conversation and document analysis DOES take place.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #38 July 21, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuote>Your argument that Echelon "listens" to conversations is just plain silly. Echelon listens to every single word you utter, looking for specific words and phrases. That's how it works, silly semantic arguments aside. Correct. It listens for words, it does not listen to the conversation which is a complilation of words to form an idea or express a thought. Glad you finally agree. You know this how? What is your source? Billvon's post. If you need more verification, take it up with him. Bill did NOT say that.. He quoted this: " Intelligence analysts at each of the respective “listening stations” maintain separate keyword lists for them to analyze any conversation or document flagged by the system, which is then forwarded to the respective intelligence agency headquarters that requested the intercept. " Which suggests to me that conversation and document analysis DOES take place. Quoteflagged by the system Correct. If specific words are flagged, then furthur monitoring or analysis takes place. This is a far cry from tapping your phone and listening in on your conversations. Please see my Chinese guy analogy. If we taugh you several words in Manadarin Chinese and sat you in a room of people speaking it, you might be able to pick out those words, but I'd hardly call it spying on them or tapping. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aftermid 0 #39 July 21, 2006 QuoteQuote>Your argument that Echelon "listens" to conversations is just plain silly. Echelon listens to every single word you utter, looking for specific words and phrases. That's how it works, silly semantic arguments aside. Correct. It listens for words, it does not listen to the conversation which is a complilation of words to form an idea or express a thought. Glad you finally agree. So what you're saying as long as I don't use certain words it will not flag/listen to my conversation. So, basicly if I'm not doing anything wrong I have nothing to worry about. That seems reasonable enough to me. If we can't trust George and company who can we trust? I'm sure it's a matter of national security. Christ I feel more secure already. Thanks, big bro Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,827 #40 July 21, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuote>Your argument that Echelon "listens" to conversations is just plain silly. Echelon listens to every single word you utter, looking for specific words and phrases. That's how it works, silly semantic arguments aside. Correct. It listens for words, it does not listen to the conversation which is a complilation of words to form an idea or express a thought. Glad you finally agree. So what you're saying as long as I don't use certain words it will not flag/listen to my conversation. So, basicly if I'm not doing anything wrong I have nothing to worry about. That seems reasonable enough to me. If we can't trust George and company who can we trust? I'm sure it's a matter of national security. Christ I feel more secure already. Thanks, big bro He's saying that it listens to EVERY word you say, and if you say a bad word it listens even harder. The founding fathers must be spinning in their graves.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,739 #41 July 21, 2006 > It listens for words, it does not listen to the conversation which is a complilation of words . . . I guess it depends on what the definition of "is" is, eh? Semantic games aside, I see you agree with the basic premise that Echelon listens to most phone conversations in the world. Which makes you a 26%er. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
idrankwhat 0 #42 July 21, 2006 Quote So what you're saying as long as I don't use certain words it will not flag/listen to my conversation. So, basicly if I'm not doing anything wrong I have nothing to worry about. That seems reasonable enough to me. If we can't trust George and company who can we trust? I'm sure it's a matter of national security. Christ I feel more secure already. Thanks, big bro Yea, I wonder what the "specific word" list that triggers the recorders consists of. Bomb Bush Bush + idiot Jihad Halliburton Cheeseburger Cheeseburger + Al K. Duh Vote for Kerry Ashcroft is a p@$$! DNC I'm going The And or maybe just "Hello". I'll trust my government when it ceases to exist. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,827 #43 July 21, 2006 Quote> It listens for words, it does not listen to the conversation which is a complilation of words . . . I guess it depends on what the definition of "is" is, eh? Semantic games aside, I see you agree with the basic premise that Echelon listens to most phone conversations in the world. Which makes you a 26%er. We ONLY know what has been pried out of the government against its will. This administration has not voluteered any information about its snooping habits unless its hand has been forced. We have no idea what else it may be doing.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,351 #44 July 21, 2006 QuoteYea, I wonder what the "specific word" list that triggers the recorders consists of. A joke from a while back when "We Will Rock You" opened on the West End, "So if you were to say the words Queen, London and bomb, it would automatically know you were talking about the new Ben Elton musical!"Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #45 July 21, 2006 Try sending yourself two e mails. In the first one add words like jihad, Bush, New York and bomb then send it. Then send a second one without any offending words and see which one you get first. When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aftermid 0 #46 July 21, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuote>Your argument that Echelon "listens" to conversations is just plain silly. Echelon listens to every single word you utter, looking for specific words and phrases. That's how it works, silly semantic arguments aside. Correct. It listens for words, it does not listen to the conversation which is a complilation of words to form an idea or express a thought. Glad you finally agree. So what you're saying as long as I don't use certain words it will not flag/listen to my conversation. So, basicly if I'm not doing anything wrong I have nothing to worry about. That seems reasonable enough to me. If we can't trust George and company who can we trust? I'm sure it's a matter of national security. Christ I feel more secure already. Thanks, big bro He's saying that it listens to EVERY word you say, and if you say a bad word it listens even harder. The founding fathers must be spinning in their graves. The founding father's would have indicted most members of this administration as traitors. Give me liberty or give me death is now: Give me liberty or give me security. If you want to maximum security go live in prison. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rickjump1 0 #47 July 21, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuote>Your argument that Echelon "listens" to conversations is just plain silly. Echelon listens to every single word you utter, looking for specific words and phrases. That's how it works, silly semantic arguments aside. Correct. It listens for words, it does not listen to the conversation which is a complilation of words to form an idea or express a thought. Glad you finally agree. So what you're saying as long as I don't use certain words it will not flag/listen to my conversation. So, basicly if I'm not doing anything wrong I have nothing to worry about. That seems reasonable enough to me. If we can't trust George and company who can we trust? I'm sure it's a matter of national security. Christ I feel more secure already. Thanks, big bro He's saying that it listens to EVERY word you say, and if you say a bad word it listens even harder. The founding fathers must be spinning in their graves. Let them listen to every word I say. We are at war, we have two open borders, and our liberal state department has allowed people to come here that want to kill us. Our founding fathers have been spinning in their graves since the invention of the telephone.Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
idrankwhat 0 #48 July 21, 2006 QuoteTry sending yourself two e mails. In the first one add words like jihad, Bush, New York and bomb then send it. Then send a second one without any offending words and see which one you get first. Will one of them be hand delivered Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #49 July 21, 2006 Quote> It listens for words, it does not listen to the conversation which is a complilation of words . . . I guess it depends on what the definition of "is" is, eh? Semantic games aside, I see you agree with the basic premise that Echelon listens to most phone conversations in the world. Which makes you a 26%er. If you think listening for a word is the same as listening to a conversation. BTW you never provide the data I asked you for, which of course you can't because you made it up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #50 July 21, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuote>Your argument that Echelon "listens" to conversations is just plain silly. Echelon listens to every single word you utter, looking for specific words and phrases. That's how it works, silly semantic arguments aside. Correct. It listens for words, it does not listen to the conversation which is a complilation of words to form an idea or express a thought. Glad you finally agree. So what you're saying as long as I don't use certain words it will not flag/listen to my conversation. So, basicly if I'm not doing anything wrong I have nothing to worry about. That seems reasonable enough to me. If we can't trust George and company who can we trust? I'm sure it's a matter of national security. Christ I feel more secure already. Thanks, big bro Except Echelon wasn't instituted by Bush. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
