Value of life: US/Israel vs. terrorists

[falxori 0]

Quote

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In Reply To
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


exactly. and I'm proud of it.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


You misquoted. My post stated they do not value human life, they only value that of selected people - just like Nazi did. Quite a joke history plays here

no i didn't.
we value human lives but we value ours more than we value those who try to kill us.

"Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

[outrager 6]

Quote

no i didn't.
we value human lives but we value ours more than we value those who try to kill us.

Getting closer now, huh?

Many/most people killed in Lebanon in the last couple of days did not try to kill you. And all that survived had their quality of life severely degraded. This operation was started with full knowledge that large numbers of innocent civilians will be killed and more injured, displaced etc.

All of this over abduction of a couple of israelis - something that Israel does to palestinians as routine everyday business.

I respect a will to survive, and on a personal level like Israelis way more than their opponents. The whole point of my post was not to find a solution to this dead-end struggle, but to show why those who claim to be more civilized are not seeing by the world as such.

bsbd!

Yuri.

[azdiver 0]

Quote

>I am not sure how you would expect them to respond to the attack on their troops.

For the third time - I AM NOT SAYING THEY WERE UNPROVOKED. The fact is that the US and Israel are currently two of (if not the two) biggest aggressors in the world. That's why they're currently being singled out. It goes with the territory - if you start a war, be prepared to be called violent. It's true by definition.

9 11 was the reason for going into afganistan, we were attacked just in case you forgot, government responsability is that of the protection of its citizen hence the war in afganistan, iraq conflict goes all the way back to the end of desert storm to refresh your memory there sadam invaded an allie and was threating to invade another, the world responded by desert storm war.iraq lost and as happens the loser is expected to conform to rules and regulations set forth by the winning side. sadam repeatedly broke those rules and regs.mainly the weapons inspections. wich were in place to make sure that he could not conduct another war against its neihbors. we were not the aggressor in eitheir case we were provoked in both cases. a little history lesson the last time a weapons ban was violated was by germany when hitler built the german army up again to start ww2. the biggest aggressor in the world today is islamic extremist and the terror orginazations that they form. soldiers target other soldiers, terrorist target civillians going about their lives never doing anything to these people, but yet they go out of there way to murder people that have done them no harm,

light travels faster than sound, that's why some people appear to be bright until you hear them speak

[livendive 8]

Quote

Quote

For the third time - I AM NOT SAYING THEY WERE UNPROVOKED.

we were not the aggressor in eitheir case we were provoked in both cases.

Did you read the all caps part of the post you were responding to? One can easily become an aggressor upon provocation, check a dictionary if you feel otherwise. Oh, and your case for how Iraq provoked us was pretty absurd.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[billvon 2,396]

>9 11 was the reason for going into afganistan

Agreed! I'm glad someone out there remembers where the terrorist group that attacked us was based. (i.e. not Iraq.)

> sadam repeatedly broke those rules and regs.mainly the weapons
>inspections.

Nope, he didn't. Read Hans Blix's latest report before we invaded. Saddam was allowing UN inspections and they weren't finding anything. Saddam claimed to have no WMD's - and our own inspection teams proved he was telling the truth.

The "Saddam had WMD's!" is getting as tiresome as "Gore really won in 2000!" Gore didn't win the election in 2000, and Saddam did not have WMD's when we invaded. No one has found any credible evidence to the contrary in either case. Time to move on.

>we were not the aggressor in eitheir case we were provoked in both cases.

And americans wonder why the world laughs at us . . .

[TheAnvil 0]

And your solution would be...what, exactly? Allow the abductions and attacks to go unpunished? Not going to happen. Civilian casualties have been an unwanted by-product of armed conflicts since the dawn of warfare. The difference is that the U.S. actually regrets them while the terrorist cowards mind them not at all.

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[azdiver 0]

the un weapons inspectors were repeatedly kicked out of the country by sadam, a violation in its self of the un resolutions,happend many times right before the war and he was also resticting their inspection sites. he repeatedly broke the no fly zone rules. and was scaming the oil for food program to get money to build up his millitary, and there were reports of him having wmds. and he had used them on civilians. but i will agree it is getting tiresome but it still deosent change the facts that we were justified in what we did, and if poeple would realize that the people of iraq are gratefull that we did.

light travels faster than sound, that's why some people appear to be bright until you hear them speak

[azdiver 0]

a point easily proven by the fact that the us is constently improving its weapons to minimize the civillian casualties, while the terrorist are trying harder to cause as many as they can, a car bomb is not a percision guided weapon, homicided bombers dont attack millitary targets they hit shops and markets, dont think there will be abundance of soldiers inside a coffe shop.

light travels faster than sound, that's why some people appear to be bright until you hear them speak

[falxori 0]

Quote

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In Reply To
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


no i didn't.
we value human lives but we value ours more than we value those who try to kill us.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Getting closer now, huh?

no, not getting closer, i'm dead on.
show me anyone in this world who doesn't value their countrymen's lives more than their enemies'. or for that matter their families' lives more than the rest of their countrymens'.

let me even make you a very clear list of priorities...
close family and friends, my own, other people i know and care for, the rest of my nation, friendly nation, "don't care" nations, nations who are happy to see me dead, nations who try to kill me, individuals who are holding a weapon aimed at me or any of the above.
hope its clear for you now...

Quote

Many/most people killed in Lebanon in the last couple of days did not try to kill you

no, but the labanese government are responsible for their lives when they allowed Hezbollah to attack Israel from within Lebanon.
When Israel can hit those who are holding the guns, it does.

Quote

All of this over abduction of a couple of israelis

that was the trigger. an unprovoked attack. and yes, we hold our soldier's lives very dearly and are willing to go to war over "the abduction of a couple of israelis" when it was unclled for and unprovoked.
you are also forgetting the 300 katyusha rockets that fell in Israeli towns in the last 3 days, needless to say that their target was civilians.

Quote

but to show why those who claim to be more
civilized are not seeing by the world as such.

if indeed the world doesn't see things as they are now, its sad. but it won't be the first time the "world" sees things the wrong way or reacts to things based on another agenda

"Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

[Guest]

Quote

Quote

What makes you think the other side doesn't similarly separate life into valuable Muslim people and dispensable subhuman infidels/occupiers/aggressors?

Uh, you must have not read the post - it states that the other side doesn't value any life much. We are not defending terrorists or fanatics, we are showing that their opponents lower themself down to the same barbaric level, with a peculiar Nazi twist.

bsbd!

Yuri.

Sure. Gas chambers and ovens. Public hangings of large numbers of civilians in reprisal for friendly losses due to indigenous resistance (as in France, Russia and elsewhere in WWII).

Please try a little harder to make distinctions, because your Nazi analogy has neither weight, nor merit.

mh

"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."

[outrager 6]

Quote

Sure. Gas chambers and ovens. Public hangings of large numbers of civilians in reprisal for friendly losses due to indigenous resistance (as in France, Russia and elsewhere in WWII).

Please try a little harder to make distinctions, because your Nazi analogy has neither weight, nor merit.

Sure it has weight and merit. Instead of public hangings in reprisal for frendly losses you get public bombings, a more efficient way to kill. Nazi analogy applies specificaly in the value of life framework: Israel knows that it will kill many civilians with this reprisal, but they are subhumans that do not need to be accounted for. Same goes on a bigger scale for US in Iraq, etc. It is only natural to be barbaric, especially in a war. Unfortunately it upsets and inflames everybody who is watching, enemy and neutral observers alike.

But in the end it really is hard not to take sides... for example i will never forgive what US did to Yugoslavia. Were you part of that or did you go later, on the peacekeeping part?

bsbd!

Yuri.

[skydyvr 0]

Quote

Give em hell Israel, give em hell.

Lebanon -- if I were getting the shit kicked out of me, I might ask for a "cease fire" too.

I hope Israel ignores them, and the U.N.

. . =(_8^(1)

[skydyvr 0]

Quote

>Nice, still does not back you statement up.

Find one other country who has destroyed more of another country in the past week or so.

Wierd response coming from a guy who perpetually brings up Christian aggression from 100's of years ago to explain Muslim aggression today.

. . =(_8^(1)

[Slink2 0]

AIPAC controls America's foreign policy...they don't? Let's see then...$23 billion to a foreign government in fiscal year 2005. The largest amount handed out to any foreign government. Yeah, Israel really screams of US interest! Zionism at its best, while the little lemmings read nothing of the truth in the newspaper.

[Slink2 0]

www.davidduke.com

OOOHHH NO! NOT THAT KLAN-NAZI GUY! JUST READ!

[akarunway 1]

Quote

Quote

Give em hell Israel, give em hell.

Lebanon -- if I were getting the shit kicked out of me, I might ask for a "cease fire" too.

I hope Israel ignores them, and the U.N.

You might wanna watch this movie. Just finished watching it. keep an opened mind folks. 50 yrs. on this planet is teaching me so It's running on Sundance Channel now>'Wall' is timely but can't bridge political divide
By Janice Page


Boston Globe
Published: 10/28/2005

It isn't possible to overstate the barriers present in every frame of Simone Bitton's latest documentary, ''Wall."

In addition to the film's visual focus -- a mass of concrete and metal that separates Israel from the West Bank -- its title (''Mur" in French) also plainly telegraphs the intention of this Moroccan-born, Jewish Arab filmmaker to explore emotional, cultural, and political divides. Unintentionally, her hands-off, hang-around approach to moviemaking also throws up some major hurdles for viewers, but we'll get to those in a minute. First, a bit of history:

When the Israeli government broke ground in 2002 for the wall (they prefer the term ''fence"), it was promoted as a necessary security measure. It's the largest engineering project in Israel's history, loosely spanning about 400 miles of a volatile and controversial border known as the Green Line. The costly design offers multiple layers of protection that include barbed wire, sensors, watchtowers, and ditches, just in case 25-foot concrete panels aren't enough of a deterrent.

Coming and going through the wall's checkpoints is a tiresome and undignified process that makes US airport security look like a cocktail reception. Whether or not it's warranted, the wall depicted in Bitton's movie seems mostly to be impeding shoppers, workers, and families who crawl over it and reach through it wherever they can, tagging every available surface with graffiti that makes a mockery of its serious mission.

There can be no argument about the worthiness of this wall as a documentary subject. When a state is willing to imprison itself and scar the very land it holds sacred, it's only natural for filmmakers to ask why. Bitton poses the important questions, but too often she lets powerful responses get lost amid footage that lingers forever on some mundane location shot while interviews are happening mostly off camera.

One of the few important chats conducted entirely onscreen is Bitton's artful interrogation of Amos Yaron, director general of the Israeli Ministry of Defense. It's priceless, especially the part when he admits his government's construction orders have harmed the environment, then reasons, ''It's all the Palestinians' fault."

Bitton seems to want to make a point of being a casual, unobtrusive observer who's only there to record whatever happens by. That feels disingenuous, although it's not a fatal flaw so long as Yaron or some other compelling voice wanders into the picture periodically. When such forces are too-often absent for long stretches, and the filmmaker chooses not to impose a strong voice or direction of her own, all the topic worthiness in the world might not keep you awake.

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

[Slink2 0]

I stopped waving the Israel flag when "real" news footage was "leaked" showing Israel gunfire on a Palestinian kid who was not armed. Thats when I learned about "Jewish Supremacists" which isn't a group like those "neo-nazis" but is rather what Zionism is all about!

[falxori 0]

Quote

AIPAC controls America's foreign policy...they don't?

you're right, its all part of the secret jewish plot to take over the world.
and where did you get the $23 billion a year figure from?
the actual US aid to israel is about 2.5 billion, with egypt not far behind with ~2billion a year, but i don't see you saying that the egyptians are controlling US foreign policy...

O

"Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

[Hawkins121 0]

he wasnt armed... Except for the fucking grenade in hand....

They shot him for something brother... Believe that.

[falxori 0]

Quote

Thats when I learned about "Jewish Supremacists" which isn't a group like those "neo-nazis" but is rather what Zionism is all about!

I'm not quick to draw the antisemitic/racist card, but i think you will make a good candidate.
you have no idea what you're talking about.

"Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

[Slink2 0]

Your figures are wrong! http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3260989,00.html And yes, if you knew more about how "your" country is run it IS A CONSPIRACY!

[Slink2 0]

This was kid being shot in his father's arm's! Dickhead!

[Hawkins121 0]

lol sweet. But what was the father doing?

It is easy to have a bleeding heart when you don't know the full story.

[Slink2 0]

WOW! Mention the far right and the liberal brainless kick in without facts! as usual! Keep your misguided views, what no Arab jumpers out there? to combat the braindead?

[Slink2 0]

Crying you inhuman shit!