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rushmc

Not All Corps are Bad!

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Going on strike is refusing to do your job. Get a grip. Reagan did the right thing and fired them for it.

What makes you so absolutely positive that employers should pay for their workers' health insurance?

Southwest and the smaller airlines such as JetBlue do manage to turn a profit, by keeping to niche markets really nice management. The larger ones such as Delta, Continental, US Air et al do not because their unions bleed them dry - among many other reasons. Delta's unions almost took the company under recently. Denying that Eastern Airlines went under due to its unions is just not facing reality. Airlines with unions would be better off without them. So would GM.

News Flash: State governments are governments and make the choice to adhere to federal standards and get their federal highway money or not to. Their choice.

Not as funny as your last one, but still quite funny.

:S
Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

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>So soup lines are the way we avoid people starving?

Well, one way. Welfare, WIC, charitable organizations run by both private and public funding are others.

>I was waiting for that. I believe people have more ethics and
>compassion than do corporations, especially large corporations. IOW's,
>you wouldn't dump oil down the rain gutter in the street to save a trip
>to Autozone . . .

?? Uh, people do - that's why it's a problem. People dump millions of gallons of used motor oil every year into storm sewers, sanitary sewers, landfills, trash pits and trash fires. Ever seen an open field full of trash? That's from people who are too lazy or too cheap to drive their trash to the dump.

Now, most people are not like that. But some are.

>When a local stadium was built, they threw out an 80something year
> old lady for the land, paid her a fair price and built the stadium.
> Well, that was her birthhouse and she wanted to die there, she died
>shortly after being displaced.

And how is that different from a guy who owns a house who evicts her because she can't pay any more?

>No way, making money regardless of human life or suffering IS evil.
>You can keep your claims of just trying to survive going, but these
>megacorps don't give a rat's ass about people, just money = evil.

Most people make money the same way. Most people nowadays have 401k's (or some other investment tool for retirement) and they choose their 401k fund based on its ability to make money. That likely means that you are using your money to promote cigarettes, or alcohol, or Mideastern oil, or whatever. Not because you are evil, but because you want to retire someday.

Multiply that by 230 million and you have a pretty strong desire to make money. That's what drives corporations to do what they do - a desire for your money. If they didn't make the money you'd drop them like a hot potato. (Actually, your fund manager would drop them - but same result.)

>Coprs are obviously inherently evil, but it is the duty of the
>government to limit them.

Corporations are no more inherently evil than people are. Dahmer, Bin Laden, McVeigh, Kim Jong-Il are all people just like you - but their evils do not make everyone evil. Similarly, there are some evil corporations out there. They make the news, but they are not the majority.

That being said, there are laws that constrain what people can do, both because some people are evil and because most people want very badly to make money. Likewise, there are laws that constrain what corporations can do for the same reasons.

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Next thing you know they;ll be wanting medical insurance too. It was the 80's and the start of the end of labor unions when medical coverage went to hell and 80% coverage became 80% deductable, as well as $500 per month co-pays for a family of 4.



Cite?
Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

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This doesn't establish corporations to be good. As someone wrote, this could be a reverse sting so they (Pepsi) must go to the authorities.

I thought perhaps a corp paid for an employee's child to have a million dollar surgery, or decided to give all employees a better benefits package. So nope, corps are still the exploitive, government intertwined POS that they were before this.

Not surprising a Republican would defend a cirporation tho [:/]



Please forgive me for this but I can't help it.




BBBBBWWWWWHHHHHHHHHaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

Stop it,

It hurts:D



A well thought out and intelectual response. :S



I guess it took one to know one huh??:o
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

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You know, it's always a chuckle reading one of your posts, but calling Reagan a fascist pig and blaming the Enron and Worldcom and other corporate debacles on him just takes the cake. That is by far and away the funniest thing you've ever writen.

:D:ph34r::D:ph34r::D:ph34r::D



Oh, golly gosh and your input and deliberate and insightful analysis is why I read yours.

Reagan breaking the ATC unions wasn't Fascist, no. The fact that many airlines blew out the unions inteh 80's, pure coincidence. Mandatory insurance and seat belts, well, not a product of the government and insurance companies working together, no. Not Fascist at allllllllllllllllll.



I have been shown The Light.

All corporations are absolutely evil.

All people that work for them, but do not own the capital, are absolutely good.

That is the distinction by which I shall live my life.

Amen.
" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

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You know, it's always a chuckle reading one of your posts, but calling Reagan a fascist pig and blaming the Enron and Worldcom and other corporate debacles on him just takes the cake. That is by far and away the funniest thing you've ever writen.

:D:ph34r::D:ph34r::D:ph34r::D



Oh, golly gosh and your input and deliberate and insightful analysis is why I read yours.

Reagan breaking the ATC unions wasn't Fascist, no. The fact that many airlines blew out the unions inteh 80's, pure coincidence. Mandatory insurance and seat belts, well, not a product of the government and insurance companies working together, no. Not Fascist at allllllllllllllllll.



I have been shown The Light.

All corporations are absolutely evil.

All people that work for them, but do not own the capital, are absolutely good.

That is the distinction by which I shall live my life.

Amen.



If you have nothing to add, it is better to keep ones mouth shut to avoid looking like a fool, instead of...... hiow does that go?

Why not address the issue? Good thing your reply is next to Rush Limbaugh's above.

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Going on strike is refusing to do your job. Get a grip. Reagan did the right thing and fired them for it.

What makes you so absolutely positive that employers should pay for their workers' health insurance?

Southwest and the smaller airlines such as JetBlue do manage to turn a profit, by keeping to niche markets really nice management. The larger ones such as Delta, Continental, US Air et al do not because their unions bleed them dry - among many other reasons. Delta's unions almost took the company under recently. Denying that Eastern Airlines went under due to its unions is just not facing reality. Airlines with unions would be better off without them. So would GM.

News Flash: State governments are governments and make the choice to adhere to federal standards and get their federal highway money or not to. Their choice.

Not as funny as your last one, but still quite funny.

:S




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Going on strike is refusing to do your job.



Refusing to do your job is a general way of saying to shirk, and in this case they weren’t shirking, they were using what leverage they had. They are in the works of that again. Sad when you have to use extreme words to convey your point.

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Reagan did the right thing and fired them for it.



That’s your opinion. History has demonstrated that the loss of labor unions in the US has decayed heath benefits for families. All a union deos is collectively baragin for wages and benefits, and a group s stronger than an individual.

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What makes you so absolutely positive that employers should pay for their workers' health insurance?



When you have a government like the US, one that dishes off control to the corporations, the corporations should shoulder that burden. In Socialist nations the government is responsible for the people’s healthcare, so the employer is burdened with that. The US corps have it made by being able to control many aspects of the country yet not have to carry health insurance of workers. Health coverage for US workers has become a luxury rather than a basic necessity - absolute joke.

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Southwest and the smaller airlines such as JetBlue do manage to turn a profit, by keeping to niche markets really nice management.



Did I read you write, “really nice management?” Why not just agree with me. BTW, SW is no longer a Vegas, Phx, Dallas niche; they’ve grown. Compare them to America West and see the differences are that management id far superior at SW, which is why AW eventually made a puny profit and then was absorbed by US Air.

Shall we investigate United Airlines and US Air management? When the airlines took a dumper a few years back they locked all the stock, just like Enron did, so employees couldn’t sell until it went for ~ 100/share to ~ 1/share. We can personal responsibility it all the way to the end, but that was shitty and there was the US gov waving them thru. But Don’t worry, your heroes the CEO’s were able to dump their stock at high market prices, which likely helped to drop the share price.

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The larger ones such as Delta, Continental, US Air et al do not because their unions bleed them dry - among many other reasons.



That is so simplistic that it’s hardly worth addressing. So you’re saying the entire reason that these airlines went under was due to the labor unions? I hope you didn’t stay up late doing this empirical and exhaustive study to come up with that. So mismanagement, growth beyond their means and high executive perks and salaries had nothing to do with it?

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Delta's unions almost took the company under recently. Denying that Eastern Airlines went under due to its unions is just not facing reality.



Here’s a goody I just pulled up: http://www.answers.com/topic/airlines-1

Here’s a Fascist pig Reagan treat: In 1981, after years of working under stressful conditions made worse by deregulation, the Professional Air Traffic Controllers Organization (PATCO) called a strike, demanding shorter working hours and higher pay. The union expected support and cooperation from the Reagan administration because of a sympathetic letter President Ronald Reagan had sent to PATCO when he was campaigning for the presidency. In the letter, he pledged to do whatever was necessary to meet PATCO's needs and ensure the public's safety. But Reagan ordered the strikers to return to work within three days or be fired. Most did not return.

You mean Reagan lied to these people to get their votes? Just goes to show how stupid Americans really are.

And here’s one that adresses Eastern’s mismanagement, greed and corruption: One troubling criticism of deregulation is that aggressive competition has forced airlines to cut corners, resulting in safety lapses. In 1990, Eastern Airlines was handed a sixty-count federal indictment charging it with shoddy and dishonest maintenance practices. The indictments came after years of complaints by mechanics for the financially troubled airline who claimed that pressures to cut costs led to maintenance shortcuts and falsification of maintenance records. In January 1991, Eastern ceased operation.
Critics contend that Eastern was hardly alone in its cavalier approach to safety. They charge that the FAA is understaffed and poorly managed and that money shortages have caused all the airlines to relax safety standards. They point not only to increased pressures on the labor force but also to companies' reluctance to replace their aging fleets, the congestion of airspace caused by increased air travel, crowded hub airports that create security risks, and overworked and sometimes poorly trained air traffic controllers. Yet, statistically, passengers are no more likely to die in a plane crash since deregulation than they were before it. Still, critics maintain that, despite the airlines' and the government's efforts to assure the traveling public to the contrary, air safety is in need of substantial improvements.

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Airlines with unions would be better off without them. So would GM. /quote]

Absolutely, juts as cops would be better off without that silly 4th thingy. W/o unions we will see wages fall.

***News Flash: State governments are governments and make the choice to adhere to federal standards and get their federal highway money or not to. Their choice.



To say these state governments who rely on these fed funds as having made free and independent choices is pure genius. I have yet to see a state refuse to fold when it comes to speed limits, drinking age or any other government, uh, mandate. Can you show me one?

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Not as funny as your last one, but still quite funny.



Yours, still meaningless.

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lee_Iacocca

See, this is my point.

Realizing that the company would go out of business if it did not receive a significant amount of money to turn the company around, Iacocca approached the United States Congress in 1979 and asked for a loan guarantee. While it is sometimes said that Congress lent Chrysler the money, it, in fact, only guaranteed the loans. Most thought this was an unprecedented move, but Iacocca pointed to the government bail-outs of the airline and railroad industries, arguing that more jobs were at stake in Chrysler's possible demise. In the end, though the decision was controversial, Iacocca received the loan guarantee from the government.

When in need, these CEO's wave around the needs of the American worker as if they give a fuck, but when the workers need fair wages and medical coverage for their families, fuck em. This is one example of exploitation.

This is funny: Politically, Iacocca supported the successful Republican candidate George W. Bush in the 2000 presidential election. In the 2004 presidential election, however, he endorsed Bush's unsuccessful opponent, Democrat John Kerry (see [2]).

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I have been shown The Light.

All corporations are absolutely evil.

All people that work for them, but do not own the capital, are absolutely good.

That is the distinction by which I shall live my life.

Amen.



If you have nothing to add, it is better to keep ones mouth shut to avoid looking like a fool, instead of...... hiow does that go?

Why not address the issue? Good thing your reply is next to Rush Limbaugh's above.



What I was adding was my opinion, and did so by poking fun at your opinion because it appears to be very narrowly focused and absolute. Your quick jump to "keeping ones mouth shut" further reinforces the perception of the extremity of your character.

I don't know how it goes. If you want, you can let me know by finishing the statement. I'm guessing it ends by me getting called something negative, or some other derogatory comment.

I don't think there is an issue to address. It appears from your statements (though the thread gets a little confusing with all the multiple quotes) that you think corporations are either for the most part, or maybe in total, evil. I disagree, but do not think we will change each other's opinions, so I just chose to point out the folly of holding such an absolutist opinion on the topic.

And I really don't get the relevance of the Rush L. comment. That must be a sideways manner of criticizing someone else who disagrees with you.

I sense you have some very strong negative beliefs about corporations, as well as other things (based on other threads). Some bad personal experiences? If you have had some, they do not mean everyone and everything similar to the factors of your experience are evil.

As some famous person once said, the only common element of all your dysfunctional relationships is you.

So, tell me about your childhood.
x
" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

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I have been shown The Light.

All corporations are absolutely evil.

All people that work for them, but do not own the capital, are absolutely good.

That is the distinction by which I shall live my life.

Amen.



If you have nothing to add, it is better to keep ones mouth shut to avoid looking like a fool, instead of...... hiow does that go?

Why not address the issue? Good thing your reply is next to Rush Limbaugh's above.



What I was adding was my opinion, and did so by poking fun at your opinion because it appears to be very narrowly focused and absolute. Your quick jump to "keeping ones mouth shut" further reinforces the perception of the extremity of your character.

I don't know how it goes. If you want, you can let me know by finishing the statement. I'm guessing it ends by me getting called something negative, or some other derogatory comment.

I don't think there is an issue to address. It appears from your statements (though the thread gets a little confusing with all the multiple quotes) that you think corporations are either for the most part, or maybe in total, evil. I disagree, but do not think we will change each other's opinions, so I just chose to point out the folly of holding such an absolutist opinion on the topic.

And I really don't get the relevance of the Rush L. comment. That must be a sideways manner of criticizing someone else who disagrees with you.

I sense you have some very strong negative beliefs about corporations, as well as other things (based on other threads). Some bad personal experiences? If you have had some, they do not mean everyone and everything similar to the factors of your experience are evil.

As some famous person once said, the only common element of all your dysfunctional relationships is you.

So, tell me about your childhood.
x



I have been shown The Light.

All corporations are absolutely evil.

All people that work for them, but do not own the capital, are absolutely good.

That is the distinction by which I shall live my life.

Amen.



If you have nothing to add, it is better to keep ones mouth shut to avoid looking like a fool, instead of...... hiow does that go?

Why not address the issue? Good thing your reply is next to Rush Limbaugh's above.



What I was adding was my opinion, and did so by poking fun at your opinion because it appears to be very narrowly focused and absolute. Your quick jump to "keeping ones mouth shut" further reinforces the perception of the extremity of your character.

I don't know how it goes. If you want, you can let me know by finishing the statement. I'm guessing it ends by me getting called something negative, or some other derogatory comment.

I don't think there is an issue to address. It appears from your statements (though the thread gets a little confusing with all the multiple quotes) that you think corporations are either for the most part, or maybe in total, evil. I disagree, but do not think we will change each other's opinions, so I just chose to point out the folly of holding such an absolutist opinion on the topic.

And I really don't get the relevance of the Rush L. comment. That must be a sideways manner of criticizing someone else who disagrees with you.

I sense you have some very strong negative beliefs about corporations, as well as other things (based on other threads). Some bad personal experiences? If you have had some, they do not mean everyone and everything similar to the factors of your experience are evil.

As some famous person once said, the only common element of all your dysfunctional relationships is you.

So, tell me about your childhood.
x




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What I was adding was my opinion, and did so by poking fun at your opinion because it appears to be very narrowly focused and absolute.



Exactly, instead of intelligent debate we have, “poking fun.” Fine, no problem, but now you’re about to break into a crying tirade over me addressing your poking.

ME: I think, as a rule, they are inherently bad. There are exceptions, but these (corps) are people without a conscience hwo protect their founders and take the fall if something goes awry.

YOU: All corporations are absolutely evil.

All people that work for them, but do not own the capital, are absolutely good.

You’re injecting the absolutism and then blaming it on me.

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Your quick jump to "keeping ones mouth shut" further reinforces the perception of the extremity of your character.



I like how you examine my every motive for my wording, and avoid the merit of all the facts and reference I have posted. You are the master of the Ad Hominem. (Ad Hominem is a character attack) We’re skydivers, we’re extreme people. What I was doing is to say that if you have nothing to add, perhaps you should save yourself from looking foolish and just move along. I look forward to reading constructive additions to this thread.

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I don't know how it goes. If you want, you can let me know by finishing the statement. I'm guessing it ends by me getting called something negative, or some other derogatory comment.



Poor baby. You come into a thread to “Poke” fun at my argument and you get disrespected…… life is soooooo unfair.

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(though the thread gets a little confusing with all the multiple quotes)



Multiple quotes? You mean because I break each person’s response down to elements and reply as opposed to shot gunning the answer, you find it confusing? No one else has a problem with that. Maybe it’s you.

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I don't think there is an issue to address.



There ya go, all you have to do is say, “No issue here, move along.” And you feel a victory - special.

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.It appears from your statements that you think corporations are either for the most part, or maybe in total, evil.



Ding, ding, ding, ding….. No getting one past you. I didn’t use the word, “total,” that’s your absolutism, not mine. I think they are inherently evil in varying degrees, rendering the discretion not to be evil in the hands of the owners/presidents.

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. I disagree, but do not think we will change each other's opinions, so I just chose to point out the folly of holding such an absolutist opinion on the topic.



The guise is yours, you wrote the absolute words, not me. Instead of being a defeatist, try to change my mind. Or better yet, if ya have nothing to add, move along. So you admit your sole purpose here is to attack the author’s, what you feel are misleadings? Nice, as I wrote, just move along.

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And I really don't get the relevance of the Rush L. comment. That must be a sideways manner of criticizing someone else who disagrees with you.



No, like you he posts not to address a lot of the substance, just the author.

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I sense you have some very strong negative beliefs about corporations, as well as other things (based on other threads). Some bad personal experiences? If you have had some, they do not mean everyone and everything similar to the factors of your experience are evil.



Sure, but remember a coiuple things here:

1) I didn’t start the thread.

2) Issues are not about the person but about the merit of the issue.

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As some famous person once said, the only common element of all your dysfunctional relationships is you.



Is that Freud? Does it matter? Aren’t there some psychology forums for you to espouse your learnings from your psych degree?

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So, tell me about your childhood.



Your mom did what to who?

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Reagan breaking the ATC unions wasn't Fascist, no. The fact that many airlines blew out the unions inteh 80's, pure coincidence. Mandatory insurance and seat belts, well, not a product of the government and insurance companies working together, no. Not Fascist at allllllllllllllllll.



Dude, I don't know where you get your news, but now I really have to question whether you know what you're talking about.

The ATC union is alive and well. Their info is here: www.natca.org

Now, they are not allowed to strike by their own charter, or law, due to the safety issues involved. Reagan did the right thing.

The Pilot's Union is also alive and well. Same with the Flight Attendent's Union. In fact, there were some segmented strikes not that long ago.

Shit man, if you don't want to wear your seatbelt, no one will force you. Though, some municipalities now allow police to pull over people for not obeying the law. That, or you'll feel how hard the windshield is when you go through it. Laws about it aside, from my experience many times over, seatbelts f**k**g work, and swear that you'll one day be happy you wore yours.
So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

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Going on strikes is refusing to do your job. Fact. Live with it.

Different airlines playing to different markets are run in different ways. Your pathetic attempt to compare them is extremely simplistic. My statement about the unions and Delta is completely accurate. Facts. Deal with it.

Again - what makes you so sure corporations should be responsible for the health care policies of its employees?

Eastern's unions destroyed their employer. Deal with it. Regardless of Eastern's other faults, their unions decided to destroy the airline and did a superb job of it.

Utterly hilarious, but the hilarity is declining. This one doesn't even top the time you were crowing about budget deficits being bad and then slamming GWB for wanting to cut programs that were ineffective.

:D
Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

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Different airlines playing to different markets are run in different ways. Your pathetic attempt to compare them is extremely simplistic. My statement about the unions and Delta is completely accurate. Facts. Deal with it.



The Delta problems goes deeper than just the pilots union. Look at the prior group of exec's and how they padded there retirement accounts but screwed the employee accounts. It's a lot more fun and easier to just blame everything on the unions.

I am not a big union fan. It makes it harder to get rid of the shitbags in the company. If you have good managment a union is useless. If your management are piss poor and screwing the workers an union may be a good thing.
If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck!

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Going on strikes is refusing to do your job. Fact. Live with it.



Blah. "Going on strike" is a subset of, and therefore distinctly different than, "refusing to do your job". Read it a few times more -- maybe the distinction between the two phrases will sink in eventually.


. . =(_8^(1)

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Utterly hilarious, but the hilarity is declining. This one doesn't even top the time you were crowing about budget deficits being bad and then slamming GWB for wanting to cut programs that were ineffective.

:D



Suppose they can say anything about the GAO report of Aprils revenues being the highest in the history of the US? (250B) No. Deficet projections cut by 100B!

Spending is still crazy but the biggest tax reciepts came from CORPORATIONS (an increase of 34% if I remember right) and the rich. (17%)

How the hell can that happen with the Bush tax cuts in place and the evil cororations shirking thier duty and all the cuts favoring corps and rich people???

Dam I am confused......
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

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