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wildernessmedic

Second rig, new or used?

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Rough exit weight of 180 flying a specter 190.

It's time to get a newer one, so I'm thinking of getting a 170, and keeping my 190 set up for wing suiting.

How long do you think I will be on that 170 before wanting to downsize again? From jump number 200-?

I'm trying to decide wether I should just bite the bullet and buy a new one that will last my a long time thats set up with exactly what I want.


Can someone at my wing loading on a 170 do say, medium performance landings? Or if I decided to start doing a bit more high performance landings would I need to downsize again for that?

Thanks.

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sammielu

Why do you want to downsize this time and would that apply in the future?
.



Canopy is a bit big for my weight. I'm more than confident with the things on the downsize checklist. Now I'm ready to get gear thats a big more freefly friendly and safe, but don't want to buy the same size I'm already ready to downsize from. Sometimes in high winds I don't get the penetration I'd like on a 190, and frequently use the fronts to cut through.

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wildernessmedic

Canopy is a bit big for my weight.

I'm sick of hearing this shit.

What on God's green earth are the disadvantages of having a canopy that's too big? And do they apply to you?

Sorry for the outburst, it's nothing personal. There is someone at my DZ who is convinced that he 'needs' to be on a 170 because "it's where I need to be", and despite the fact that he can't finish the flare on his 190. It's winding me up.

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Second rig - new or used?
I'll answer that...

Do you have enough money that you don't mind spending it on new kit? If yes, buy new. If no, buy used.

Your post only mentions canopy. Are you wanting a compelte 2nd rig, or is just a second canopy to hook up to the one rig?
Sky Switches - Affordable stills camera tongue switches and conversion adaptors, supporting various brands of camera (Canon, Sony, Nikon, Panasonic).

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Quagmirian

***Canopy is a bit big for my weight.

I'm sick of hearing this shit.

What on God's green earth are the disadvantages of having a canopy that's too big? And do they apply to you?

Sorry for the outburst, it's nothing personal. There is someone at my DZ who is convinced that he 'needs' to be on a 170 because "it's where I need to be", and despite the fact that he can't finish the flare on his 190. It's winding me up.

I'm loaded at .9. I bought this canopy when I was 20-30 pounds heavier, with less skill. Now I have more skill, less weight.

Disadvantages as far as safety? None.
Disadvantages as far as performance...what I said above. Penetration.

I want a new rig because this one isn't free fly friendly. I'm just trying to make sure I'm buying something at my level, that will continue to be sufficient for plenty of time if I'm buying new.


And yes, I want to keep the old one complete for WS, so a brand new one. I'll buy used again if anyone thinks I'm only going to be on a 170 for 1-400 jumps. I guess I should have titled this "How long do you think I'll be on a 170" so I could decide for myself.

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No one really knows how long you will be on a 170. That depends on what you want. I moved down to a 170 Stiletto in '95. From my 220 Cruislite. Many people thought that was extremely aggressive. Although I have jumped many smaller canopies since then, that Stiletto is still my main ride.

If you can afford it get yourself a nice new rig with a PD176R and the main that suits the style of flying you want to do. Get a nice name brand container in that size and it will hold it's resale value well in case you do want to downsize later. I suggest PD canopies not because they are better, but because they are easier to resell.

Your reasons for downsizing seem reasonable. Quagmirian is correct about some people being in a hurry for the wrong reasons. The step from a 190 to a 170 is not huge, but it is significant. If you are ready for it you will definitely find a large increase in responsiveness. And of course a corresponding decrease in forgiveness. But we do skydiving because it's fun, not because we are trying to live risk free lives!
Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

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wildernessmedic

... I'll buy used again if anyone thinks I'm only going to be on a 170 for 1-400 jumps. I guess I should have titled this "How long do you think I'll be on a 170" so I could decide for myself.



Well, first off, you are the only one who can answer that question.

To answer that question, you need to ask yourself a few other questions.

How much jumping do you plan on doing in the next year?

What types of jumps?

Where do you see your skills in the next year? Do you plan on taking any courses? (canopy or other)

Do you plan on devoting serious time and jumps to canopy flight?

The big argument for used gear is the cost. The big depreciation hit has already happened, so the difference between purchase price and sale price (if you decide to sell it in the future) won't be huge.
The big argument for new is that the harness will fit you very well and you can get all the bells & whistles that you want, and none that you don't.

Personally, I got a brand new Infinity in 2011. Fit to me, sized to a 170.
Realistically, I won't be downsizing. I'm getting old and I really don't jump enough for a 150 to be sensible for me. I'm 150 or so out of the shower, maybe 175-185 exit weight. So I plan on keeping this rig basically forever.

I may not get the best penetration into the wind, but I can spot, so getting back isn't an issue. If the winds are strong enough on the ground that penetration for landing is an issue, then my butt is sitting down. I've had a few "bad experiences" in wind that I shouldn't have been jumping in. I have learned my lesson.

Different people have different skill/experience/risk tolerance levels, so their choices are different from mine. That's fine. I'm not doing this to impress other people. I do it for me.

You have to decide what's best for you. But it's best to make an informed decision. Which is probably what you came on here to try and do. :P
"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

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Ultimately it's a money question.
Do you want to pay $6k for all new stuff and then wait months for it to arrive?

A compromise: used container sent to manufacturer for a custom fit harness. It will save you a ton over a new container. I did it with my Vector, it was 4 weeks and $550 on top of a $2800 complete rig (AAD separate) that will last me as long as I want to jump and takes me through all the different disciplines I fly.

If you want to do that your first stop is your rigger to learn which manufacturers are the best to work with in this scenario (I had great service from UPT for my Vector 3 and know Sun Path (Javelin) and Velocity Sports Equipment (Infinity) also excel at customer service and would be good for making changes like that - some other manufacturers not so much, this is where your riggers info comes in), and to determine an appropriate yoke measurement to look for in such a used rig. You're looking for average canopy sizes, so used gear is definitely an option for you and can be faster than waiting for new stuff to be made.

Cost savings for me translated to 500 jumps my first year, so it was worth it to me personally (my goal is to jump and keep jumping as much and for as long as possible).

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Based on your information your exit weight is 210lbs, correct?
A 170 puts you at 1.24; 150 at 1.40 and 135 at 1.56.
If you get a new rig that holds a 170 tight, it will allow going down to a 135 most likely.
Hence, if you got the money get a new rig.
There is a good chance you will never jump anything smaller than a 135 (as ~1.6 is a solid loading for non-swoopers).
Therefore buy the new rig, go all out, make sure you love it and plan on keeping it forever.

Don't worry about going smaller than 170 or not, only time will tell what WL/canopy you are comfy at.
Not to mention that a 135 Pilot and a 135 Katana fly very different.

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timrf79

Based on your information your exit weight is 210lbs, correct?
A 170 puts you at 1.24; 150 at 1.40 and 135 at 1.56.
If you get a new rig that holds a 170 tight, it will allow going down to a 135 most likely.
Hence, if you got the money get a new rig.
There is a good chance you will never jump anything smaller than a 135 (as ~1.6 is a solid loading for non-swoopers).
Therefore buy the new rig, go all out, make sure you love it and plan on keeping it forever.

Don't worry about going smaller than 170 or not, only time will tell what WL/canopy you are comfy at.
Not to mention that a 135 Pilot and a 135 Katana fly very different.



Exit weight is around 180-185.


Thanks for the replies. Friends seem to think I will want to downsize to a 150. My reply is I have no reason to, and think a 170 would be it for me for a long time. They seem to think I'll get bored with it after a somewhat short period. In fact today a couple suggested I try the DZs 150 this morning. I decided to wait and try a 170 before making that leap.


Another 50 jumps and I will probably be spending most of the time learning wingsuit flying. I didn't really think about that. I probably won't be doing but a few jumps here and there free flying.

Tough call. I'm not made of money, but I really want something that fits me perfect. I guess I can just shop around until I find a harness that fits mostly good that is FF friendly.


On the other hand, I guess I could buy a Curve that fits a 170 tight, get a used 170 main, and then possibly fit a 150 in it later if I wanted new. That could save some money I bet. Although I will still need a reserve and AAD as well.

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At around 75 jumps I got a Curv VC3 (170 to 135) and a year and a half after buying it, have made over 500 jumps and am on the 135. Personally it was the correct decision for me, because I'll be on the 135 for 300-500 more jumps is my guess. I can always go with a more elliptical canopy at a larger or the same size to increase performance if I choose to. Currency is a big deal when downsizing safely.

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Slimrn

At around 75 jumps I got a Curv VC3 (170 to 135) and a year and a half after buying it, have made over 500 jumps and am on the 135. Personally it was the correct decision for me, because I'll be on the 135 for 300-500 more jumps is my guess. I can always go with a more elliptical canopy at a larger or the same size to increase performance if I choose to. Currency is a big deal when downsizing safely.



The curve can fit a canopy between 135-170? If that's the case I'm sold. I won't outgrow that. The only reason I see myself going even to a 150 or lower is my friends saying they're sure I will. Another friend lost his foot on a small canopy swooping. I like my feet.

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Quote

The curve can fit a canopy between 135-170?



A Curve VC3 size will fit that range. But only if the 170 is a low bulk canopy. Like a Pulse. It will not fit a reserve larger than an Optimum 160. A VC4 will fit one size larger canopies but is really not suited to 135s.
Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

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gowlerk

Quote

The curve can fit a canopy between 135-170?



A Curve VC3 size will fit that range. But only if the 170 is a low bulk canopy. Like a Pulse. It will not fit a reserve larger than an Optimum 160. A VC4 will fit one size larger canopies but is really not suited to 135s.



Thanks for the info. I'll look into that.

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