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TMPattersonJr

Single Side Racer RSL Pics.

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So since there are some out there that do not know. Yes Parachute Labs Racer does offer a single side RSL.

Here are some pics of the set up.

It is a simple RSL utilizing a single RSL shackle on the left riser that goes to a SS RW4 ring. It utilizes the same split housing location as the dual sided used.

If you have any questions you can contact me at: [email protected]
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Nice. Now if only that could somehow become the default RSL and the original cross connected style become either optional, or better yet discontinued, I would be able to stop warning new jumpers about the potential hazard.

Are user/rigger instructions for this going to be added to the manual?
Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

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Yes it is going to be added to the manual it is one of the many.... many projects I'm working on here.

I tend to push for the single side whenever I talk with my customers and explain to them both. But until this place changes hands I don't ever see the dual side being done away with.

And as far as it being a hazard, used incorrectly a skyhook can kill you just as easily as our dual side can. I know we leave it to the individuals to seek the knowledge but unless we deal with them directly then all we can do is hope they read the user manual.

I'm trying bit by bit to restore the faith in our system that we once had and would love to work with any rigger that would like to learn the tricks about packing them to make it easier for them. I'm tired of hearing our rigs are hard to pack... The only reason is you haven't learned to pack them by someone who knows how. Most have "learned" from someone who has learned from the book and not from those who do it all the time and yes it can be difficult. But learning the tips and tricks that the factory riggers use will help you to pack any system easier not just ours. B|

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It's nice to see that you are taking on the task of moving the Racer system into the future. But please, don't fall into the old habit I've seen from Parachute Labs. Namely pointing out problems you perceive with UPT products instead of addressing your own.

Quote

And as far as it being a hazard, used incorrectly a skyhook can kill you just as easily as our dual side can.



This is not only untrue, it is irrelevant. Unless you mean an incorrectly rigged Skyhook. But I don't want to discuss UPT designs here. You will go far only if you get out of this very bad habit that I've seen time and again from the principles of your company. Address your problems like you are and let others address their own problems.

At a time when everyone else is developing or marketing MARDs PL needs to finally understand that RSLs are now standard equipment on nearly all new rigs. If you want to market to new jumpers....well, judging by your comments I think you already know what needs to be done.

I can understand what you mean by the cross connected RSL not being deleted anytime soon. But perhaps it could become optional only.
Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

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gowlerk

It's nice to see that you are taking on the task of moving the Racer system into the future. But please, don't fall into the old habit I've seen from Parachute Labs. Namely pointing out problems you perceive with UPT products instead of addressing your own.

Quote

And as far as it being a hazard, used incorrectly a skyhook can kill you just as easily as our dual side can.



This is not only untrue, it is irrelevant. Unless you mean an incorrectly rigged Skyhook. But I don't want to discuss UPT designs here. You will go far only if you get out of this very bad habit that I've seen time and again from the principles of your company. Address your problems like you are and let others address their own problems.

At a time when everyone else is developing or marketing MARDs PL needs to finally understand that RSLs are now standard equipment on nearly all new rigs. If you want to market to new jumpers....well, judging by your comments I think you already know what needs to be done.

I can understand what you mean by the cross connected RSL not being deleted anytime soon. But perhaps it could become optional only.


You completely missed my point, any system being mis-used CAN and WILL kill you. Ether mis-routed or whatever it can malfunction. the majority of the issues that have arisen from our system were either mis-routed or pulling out of sequence from the manufacturers suggestion, mis-use.

Every system has a quirk. The question is do you know how to mitigate that quirk so that it won't potentially be a life threatening issue. If so you know your system. If not you might want to get to know your system.

Yes I picked on our next door neighbors system because how many people know about the trap or the boost? Not many. If you say the word skyhook, most will know what you are talking about. I have my qualms about the mards out there. But those I keep to myself unless asked on a one on one basis.;)

So I do my best not to bash the competition at all and only use them as a reference so that others might understand.:)
But you will not see me go on a rant about the other systems in the market downfalls, only how my system outperforms themB|
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I'll let the Manufacturer and the DPRE discuss the finer points, but during the course of this thread and the one that started this, several riggers commented on how the single sided RSL is uncommon and they have never seen one before on the Racer.

The point I want to make is 'common' or 'uncommon' are very relative terms. I'm sitting here looking at my logbook, and this year along I have packed 6 Racers with Single side RSLs and setup 2 brand new rigs from the factory with them. Handling 8 Racers with single sided RSLs (not counting my own, of course) in a 4.5 month period would hardly classify them as 'uncommon' in my book, especially for a Kansas Basement rigger. The only Dual-sided RSL I pack for is a gentleman in Iowa with 2x Racer Tandems.
=========Shaun ==========


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But you will not see me go on a rant about the other systems in the market downfalls, only how my system outperforms them.



But you won't recommend it to someone in it's standard configuration? You state that people need to follow the manufacturer's recommended procedures. When those differ significantly from the standard taught worldwide, it is a serious problem. Please do what you can to fix that problem. MARDS do not change EPs. That is one of their strengths.
Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

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A photo is attached of my '94 Racer. Perhaps it will clarify some of the history a little for anyone watching this thread.

The rig uses two housings, both terminated by brass ferrules, and there's no gap between them. I don't have an RSL, but from the manual, the traditional 2 sided RSL design did have the RSL loop around the housing that went to the backpad pins, further 'back' from the gap -- basically where the housing disappears into the rig in my photo.

[Edit: So things 'break apart' in the sense of one housing end changing position, but with 2 separate, normal housings, nothing has to actaully 'break'.]

Where the split between the housings is, that aft housing just slips into a loop of elastic material, so that when the RSL yanks on the housing, the end of the housing pops out of the elastic, allowing the RSL to slip off it and pull the ripcord cable.

(In my pic there's also a little flap of material that isn't original, that I added, to protect the reserve risers from rubbing on a sharp hot knifed edge of fabric at the housing gap area.)

Good to see this thread and learn what the modern design is like.

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TMPattersonJr



You completely missed my point, any system being mis-used CAN and WILL kill you. Ether mis-routed or whatever it can malfunction. the majority of the issues that have arisen from our system were either mis-routed or pulling out of sequence from the manufacturers suggestion, mis-use.



Yes, any system can be mis-routed or more appropriately mis-rigged. Any system can also be mis-used, good old user error.

They are both very important characteristics of a component of a life saving system like a parachute. BUT, you should separate the two as two distinct characteristics.

The racer double sided RSL has much more probability of fatal user error in a two out scenario than any other MARD, standard RSL, or no RSL.

You like the Racer system, great, I hope so since you work there. But I think the statements are misleading.

The double sided RSL is dangerous simply because it has more user failure modes. We know that people frequently fuck up under pressure, so the less ways that are possible for them to do so the better!
"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

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dpreguy

Well then. Thanks for the pictures. Wow. metal ring and all. Good. Last yr, when the thread was going, it wasn't in existence. I retract my objections. Guess this all occurred last year or so.



;) glad to help. I just don't like misleading info out there, I'd rather get a little confrontational and educate than just sit there and argue with someone about it. It has been in production for about a year and a half. And we've sold about 45 of them to customers other than new production. So they're out there. :)
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The only reason it is taught this way is because dz's are trying to get as much for their buck and are stream lining the process as much as possible. So they trim out what is to me the safer option for a total so they don't have to differ their EP's. I don't jump with an RSL at all except on my tandem rig, and I would still rather dump my reserve directly from a total / PC in tow and deal with the consequences in a much slower environment. Having to worry about the main deploying during reserve deployment and then leaving while it has possibly wrapped around the reserve somehow doesn't seem all that appealing to me. And then there's the what if... what if my reserve link fails on deployment https://youtu.be/XbfNWbMvSXk that'd never happen right?!?

I think that some of the advances in our sport are being taken for granted because we don't want to take the time to educate the jumpers and just let them rely on their backups like they were taught in their FJC. I've seen way too many videos of jumpers on their first cutaway that only pull their cutaway and let their RSL do the rest because that's what it's there for right?!? As an industry we are doing a crap job of educating and spend more time downing gear that with a little bit of understanding people might actually like.
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Thanks PC, yes the setup is similar to what you have but we have done away with the elastic. There was a period after that that there was a piece of surgical tubing "connecting" the two housings. We've done away with all of that and just allow them to rest next to each other. The ripcord cable keeps them lined up enough and they almost push themselves together. Then as you close the flaps they rest in the same area and we've had no issue with it like his since 2006 and probably a bit before that (before my time in the shop).
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DougH

The double sided RSL is dangerous simply because it has more user failure modes. We know that people frequently fuck up under pressure, so the less ways that are possible for them to do so the better!



Yes it has one difference in the possibility of a two out situation. So I educate the people that have them so they understand that if they have a:
Two-out
PC in tow
Total
Their EP's change with the dual connector. And it's not like we differ for the guidance that is put out by the USPA it's just not the parts that everyone teach. If you look at section 5-1 in the SIM it covers everything we say for our system with a Dual Side RSL but because it's not the brainless Cut Away and Pull your Reserve it's commonly not taught.

I understand why with a first jumper why you want to keep it simple. But we have a continuing education program that is commonly not followed completely. And after the reigns are let loose almost none come back to educate themselves and I've heard several in coach and aff courses that have said they've never heard of these options.

Yes I understand a the point that it changes things but I just wish people would seek out the differences in how their system works before something happens and then blame others when the info was provided.
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The only reason it is taught this way is because dz's are trying to get as much for their buck and are stream lining the process as much as possible.



It does not matter what the reason is. The cross connected RSL offers absolutely no advantages at all, only disadvantages. It needs to go away. Keep up the good work.
Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

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We'll agree to disagree and move on from there. I see where every system has its advantages and its disadvantages. The primary one for the dual side is the same that the other manufacturers have implemented the Collins lanyard for. But I will also agree that some components need to find their way to the forefront and some need to take the path of the shot and a half and move over for the better.
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It has been in production for about a year and a half. And we've sold about 45 of them to customers other than new production. So they're out there.



They have been in existence since about 1994. Since I never allowed my customers to use a dual RSL, we started cutting the original ones basically in half and then added a ring like what you have there.

It is also the way we did the drop tests on the Racer tandem. We just made a static line with a ring.


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TMPattersonJr


Their EP's change with the dual connector. And it's not like we differ for the guidance that is put out by the USPA it's just not the parts that everyone teach. If you look at section 5-1 in the SIM it covers everything we say for our system with a Dual Side RSL but because it's not the brainless Cut Away and Pull your Reserve it's commonly not taught.



But that is it in a nutshell. The more steps in a procedure the more potential for error. Experience matters, but we know that extremely experience people fuck up, humans are inherently error prone.

That is the same reason why tandems are not a regular skydive, bigger decision tree, more opportunity for error.

Standard single sided RSL has less steps, and is therefore inherently safer in regards to user error. Period.
"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

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TMPattersonJr


...And as far as it being a hazard, used incorrectly a skyhook can kill you just as easily as our dual side can. I know we leave it to the individuals to seek the knowledge but unless we deal with them directly then all we can do is hope they read the user manual...



Ok, not trying to be confrontational, but how can a Skyhook be "misused?

Not mis-rigged, or installed incorrectly, but misused by the jumper?
"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

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Ok, not trying to be confrontational, but how can a Skyhook be "misused?



Intentionally lowering the decision altitude, believing it is safe because one is equipped with a MARD. I believe that would classify as 'misuse' of a MARD (regardless of the brand).

On the misrigging or reliability side, I have seen 2 MARDs disengage during a cutaway from a main canopy (I won't get into the brands here either). I would tend to classify those in the misrigging category, but again there is no way to prove or disprove.
=========Shaun ==========


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Ok, not trying to be confrontational, but how can a Skyhook be "misused?

Not mis-rigged, or installed incorrectly, but misused by the jumper?



Well it has had issues. Remember the double tandem fatality at Jonesville, NC???


MEL
Skyworks Parachute Service, LLC
www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com

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