semi stowless bag

[iranianjumper 2]

Hi friends
I intend to order my new rig and in this matter I contacted to Chutingsar to get some info .
I asked about semi stowless bag and they suggested that for a Sabre 210 , this kind of main bag will not add any benefit .
Anybody knows why ?

[JerryBaumchen 1,271]

Hi iranian,

Quote

Anybody knows why ?

Disclaimer: I make a semi-stowless bag for many rigs. sizes, etc.

I doubt that anyone can tell why that is their opinion.

I have built them for 210 sq ft canopies. I have not heard back from the customer(s) that they are having problems.

Jerry Baumchen

[timrf79 0]

A semi stowless bag gives you 2 advantages:
easier packing
less line twist due to removal of rubber band tension as the bag comes out.

The second point is less relevant on larger canopies.
the first point si always relevant.

If you got the $$$ get a semi stowless, makes packing soo much nicer!

[hardhatpat 4]

Quote

easier packing

As a packer I'm not convinced this is the case, while my stowless experience is limited I'm faster packing rigs with rubber band stows.

[rehmwa 2]

hardhatpat

while my stowless experience is limited

get some more experience with it and then come back and tell us what you think then - I expect you'll change your mind

(you must be pretty quick with bands though. good stuff)

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Unstable 8]

Quote

get some more experience with it and then come back and tell us what you think then - I expect you'll change your mind

I've been packing tandems since 2002 and rigging since 2006, and I tend to agree that the stowless or semi-stowless is not any easier or harder. "Easier" is an opinion, not a fact, and may differ by user. I have one on one rig and a standard on another, same same to me. If I had the choice to go stowless or semi-stowless and pay a few more bucks, I'd just save the $.

=========Shaun ==========

[timrf79 0]

Every winter when I pack ind ry air, my nail beds on my fingers get bloody from packing stows where the rubber band slides over my finger....

[gowlerk 2,100]

rehmwa

***while my stowless experience is limited

get some more experience with it and then come back and tell us what you think then - I expect you'll change your mind

(you must be pretty quick with bands though. good stuff)


I prefer old school bags as well. But I'm pretty sure stowless will be faster once you are used to it. Especially if you take into account broken rubber bands and the time needed to change them.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[Deimian 43]

gowlerk

Especially if you take into account broken rubber bands and the time needed to change them.

I think that's the key. If you are using a weight, the time needed to go to your rig, remove the weight, come back to the bag, open the flap and orientate the bag correctly, start making the 8 figure, and close the flap (they never want to close on the first try!) offsets a big chunk of the time saved avoiding rubber bands. But if you have to change rubber bands in a tight call........ that's a different story. Then semi-stowless are way faster just because the chances of having to change rubber bands are way less. Also, there is less rocking of the bag on deployment, which can be just positive.

[Blis 1]

Deimian

***
Especially if you take into account broken rubber bands and the time needed to change them.

I think that's the key. If you are using a weight, the time needed to go to your rig, remove the weight, come back to the bag, open the flap and orientate the bag correctly, start making the 8 figure, and close the flap (they never want to close on the first try!) offsets a big chunk of the time saved avoiding rubber bands. But if you have to change rubber bands in a tight call........ that's a different story. Then semi-stowless are way faster just because the chances of having to change rubber bands are way less. Also, there is less rocking of the bag on deployment, which can be just positive.

You're doing way too many steps there.. Once in the bag, grab it and take it to container, stow the lines, put it in the container, set shoulder flaps and close it...

[johnmatrix 21]

I have about 500 jumps on my Sabre2 190 with a UPT semi-stowless bag and am happy with it.

[Deimian 43]

Blis

******
Especially if you take into account broken rubber bands and the time needed to change them.

I think that's the key. If you are using a weight, the time needed to go to your rig, remove the weight, come back to the bag, open the flap and orientate the bag correctly, start making the 8 figure, and close the flap (they never want to close on the first try!) offsets a big chunk of the time saved avoiding rubber bands. But if you have to change rubber bands in a tight call........ that's a different story. Then semi-stowless are way faster just because the chances of having to change rubber bands are way less. Also, there is less rocking of the bag on deployment, which can be just positive.

You're doing way too many steps there.. Once in the bag, grab it and take it to container, stow the lines, put it in the container, set shoulder flaps and close it...

Let me numerate my steps:

1. Remove weight
2. Open the flap and orientate the bag correctly (flap on the ground)
3. Stow the lines
4. Close the flap

3 and 4 are unavoidable.

2 can be partly avoided (the rotation of the bag) but it causes more trouble than benefit, making the 8 figure on top of the bag and closing the flap is more tricky because the lines going to the risers go in the opposite direction of the closing flap, so keep them neat takes more time than simple putting the flap on the ground. I am talking about UPT semi-stowless bags here, other designs (like mPODs) have the flaps in other places and I follow a different approach on those.

1 is avoidable, at the cost of losing line tension and making the stowage more sloppy. And the only thing you save is walking from the rig to the bag after removing the weight, as walking to the rig and removing the weight itself have to be done sooner or later anyway.

So I could save one walk of the lines (3-6 seconds depending on much it takes me to kneel again) and the bag rotation (2-4 seconds depending on the position of the tuck tabs of the closing flap). Removing these steps will make my packjob 5-10 seconds faster but make my packjob sloppier. This part is by far the less time consuming part of my packjobs. Having a tight fit, everything else takes more time. I pack in 7-10 minutes if I am in a hurry. If I save 5-10 seconds that's a saving of 0.83%-2.4%. Meh .

[chutingstar 1]

JerryBaumchen

Hi iranian,

Quote

Hi friends
I intend to order my new rig and in this matter I contacted to Chutingsar to get some info .
I asked about semi stowless bag and they suggested that for a Sabre 210 , this kind of main bag will not add any benefit .
Anybody knows why ?

Disclaimer: I make a semi-stowless bag for many rigs. sizes, etc.

I doubt that anyone can tell why that is their opinion.

I have built them for 210 sq ft canopies. I have not heard back from the customer(s) that they are having problems.

Jerry Baumchen

Jerry and Kamran,

We carry, sell and support all the major manufacturers main d-bags (standard & semi-stowless), plus many 3rd party semi-stowless and stowless d-bags. Some will only make semi-stowless/stowless d-bags up to a certain size because they don't work as well in the larger sizes due to parachute sizing/bulk issues that can change how certain designs work.

Kamran we are answering several questions on your full rig purchase, and can definitely explain more in depth with you. Each of the skydivers who work here can have different opinions on gear, and we let them give advice from their experience. We also look to help jumpers keep the price down on new rigs by sorting through the "nice to have" and "have to have" options.

So not going with the semi-stowless bag on your new container order was just part of that advice on the price vs. the benefit...in addition to all the other advice on your options questions.

Kamran, you can contact us directly for more info as you continue to make your final decisions.

Take care,

Mike

ChutingStar.com