Unstable 8 #26 May 15, 2017 QuoteReflex did it right. They had two sections of housings, which were secured at the ends and separated by a space. In addition, they used a frictionless ring on the end of the lanyard, not a nylon loop. That is exactly how the Racer Single RSL is. RW4 Ring, slightly larger than the housing to prevent the ring from sliding up. I have a few customers who recently purchased New 2K3s with the Single Sided option - Let me get them to grab a few images and we'll throw them up here. Tim, do you have any images on hand you can show? Only major difference I've seen is the Racer single side is using Mil-t-5038 TY-IV, 1" square weave rather than a 9/16th width material. I actually like that better. The wider RSL helps keep the assembly in place along the yoke and eliminates the need for copious amounts of velcro, elastic, keepers, etc...=========Shaun ========== Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TMPattersonJr 0 #27 May 15, 2017 dpreguy " ..only difference"...."goes between two sections of housings...". Not that I have seen. I believe you are incorrect. I think you are leaving something out. I have not actually seen a Racer housing setup with the single sided RSL, (I doubt many riggers have), ( would love to have seen one at PIA), but I have seen a staged video of one deploying in their loft, posted by the company, showing the necessity of the housing to be pulled up in a big loop, and then break apart. Also, in the video I saw, the actual pulling on the cable was by a nylon loop, (as distinguished by a nearly frictionless steel ring around the cable. ) The video I saw showed a continuous housing which must first must somehow break apart first. That is the function problem and what distinguishes the Racer RSL from all other rigs, both domestic and foreign. This discussion has been ongoing for years and despite requests to see a picture(s) of this one-sided RSL none have been posted. Not in the manual either. If my assumptions from the staged loft deploy video are incorrect then I will stand corrected. Reflex did it right. They had two sections of housings, which were secured at the ends and separated by a space. In addition, they used a frictionless ring on the end of the lanyard, not a nylon loop. Adopting the Reflex invention, which operates like every other RSL off one riser only, would solve Racer's objectors' criticisms. The necessity of a break apart housing, a nylon loop instead of a steel ring around the cable and the housing not being tacked at both ends distinguishes. As I work for the manufacturer in question, I believe I am correct sir. As for seeing one at PIA all you had to do was stop by and ask. There were rigs there with single and dual side RSL's hooked up. As to quit hijacking the poor OP post about which rig to choose you can find my reply to all the racer questions here:http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4846650;#4846650 As to the OP: Try everything. If you go by the majority of the posts you'll receive here you'll get a bunch of opinions stated as facts that may not be in line with what you're looking for. I work and sell for a manufacturer and if you would like to try my equipment I would be glad to talk to you offline about it and send you a demo to try out. But I will also tell you again to TRY EVERYTHING you can get your hands on. every rig in the industry has its quirks and all have their bonuses. We all build to a standard and most exceed that standard. so what it really ends up coming down to are options, fit, and style. Find what works best for you and buy that. Blue SkiesBlack DeathFacebook www.PLabsInc.com www.SkydiveDeLand.com www.FlyteSkool.ws Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dpreguy 14 #28 May 15, 2017 Let me see a picture of the setup. I will retract anything that is incorrect. The video I saw showed a housing loop that was pulled up and popped apart while being pulled by a nylon loop as I described. If there is a picture to see...that's all I need. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Blis 1 #29 May 16, 2017 EvilGeniusI've started to see SIFE rigs turning up at my local DZ's, they're an Austrian company and the price seems competitive. I'm no rigger so can't comment on any technical aspects but they look good. Still, I couldn't trade my Vector for anything! ;-) Funny, I saw some ten SIFE's at skydie algarve this spring and they looked really bad... Could have been oversized canopies or not but it didnt look good... Havent packed one so cant comment on that either but from their site it seems they use RAX for mard so that is good... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #30 May 22, 2017 .......... I don't understand why some riggers struggle with them - to me at least they are easier and more intuitive than other rigs ........ ------------------------------------------------------------------- "Intuitive" varies from one person to the next. What is "intuitive" to one rigger totally baffles the next rigger because he cannot relate it to an earlier skill. Relating to an earlier skill is important because most sport jumpers only learn one packing method and that is sufficient as long as they only ever jump one style of gear. Only Master Riggers need to learn three or more ways to do the same job. As a young rigger, I learned all 4 different methods of packing Pop-Tops. Initially, I struggled to route pull-up cords through all 8 grommets, then back down again. Steel T-bodkins simplified routing pull-up cords. I broke a quick-disconnect steel T-bodkin the first time I used it! Grrrrrrr! Hated searching for a sharp piece of steel mixed in with the reserve canopy! Grrrrr! Then Racer introduced free-bags. I tried the factory method of tying a pair of steel T-bodkins together ...... Once ...... Then reverted to a pair of locking pull-up cords (ala. Vector). When Cypres hit the market during the early 1990s, I experimented briefly with skinny, steel T-bodkins made from mattress needles. Them I struggled with soft bodkins plus steel bodkins. Too many tools to count. A German rigger (Frank Carrera?) suggested Ghost Loops. I tied up my own Ghost Loops with metal rings on the bottom. Eventually I tied my pair of Ghost Loops together and finger-trapped pull-up cords to them. That reduced a bewildering array of bodkins and cords to one tool. BING! A light came on and for the first time packing Pop-Tops made sense. Ghost Loops make sense because they allow me to use old, familiar skills (Vector or Javelin) for 3/4 of the pack job. Metal rings allow me to use plenty of muscle to pull up and secure side flaps with temporary pins. Then the only Racer-specific skills revolve around the pilot-chute. A few years later the Racer factory sent me a handful of Ghosr Loops and I wondered why they had no hard lumps on the bottom end. Over the last 33 years I have tried a wide range of Racer packing methods and tools, but for the last decade have only used Ghost Loops (with metal rings on the bottom). If a young rigger asks me to teach him/her how to close Pop-Tops, I will only teach him/her how to tie his/own Ghost Loops and the finer points of threading them through all 14 grommets. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Unstable 8 #31 May 22, 2017 Very informative, as Always, Rob. Agree, 'easy' and 'intuitive' are opinions, not facts, and differ person to person. I was lucky because being a Racer Jumper, that was the First thing I tackled when doing my 20. Quote A German rigger (Frank Carrera?) suggested Ghost Loops. I tied up my own Ghost Loops with metal rings on the bottom. Eventually I tied my pair of Ghost Loops together and finger-trapped pull-up cords to them. That reduced a bewildering array of bodkins and cords to one tool. BING! Can you post a picture of your Ghost loop design? Its funny because whenever we talk about Racer you bring up your Ghost loops, I was actually timing you (it took you 2 days this time, Tsk Tsk). Pics! =========Shaun ========== Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
maxhogg 0 #32 May 22, 2017 BlisIn my personal opinion SWS Fire has the best quality/price ratio at the moment and it is what I would get if I was looking for a new rig. It is well built and rigger-friendly and doesn't even look bad As a Rigger I dislike wings (for many reasons), Jumping a Mirage right now and nothing wrong with it. No experience with Icon... Another (less well informed) recommendation to have a look at the SWS Fire, mainly based on price. If you're in Germany it being a Ukrainian company, you'll get a good price for it in Euros. 5 or 6 of the people I jump with (including me) jump them and no-one has had a bad word to say about them. I bought one based on my rigger's recommendation, amongst other things. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
