pictures of Iraq war you don't see !!

[billvon 2,380]

>Okay, Bill would you please confirm the torture and killing of an Iraqi by AMERICANS.

Is the findings of a US military court official enough for you? (Note that you won't find this in the mainstream press easily; too depressing.)

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U.S. Officer Convicted in Death of Iraqi General
by John McChesney

Weekend Edition Sunday, January 22, 2006

A military jury convicts an Army interrogator of negligent homicide for the death of an Iraqi general. The November 2003 incident took place at a U.S. detention camp in Iraq, where prosecutors say the general died after being abused in a brutal interrogation.

But attorneys for Army Chief Warrant Officer Lewis Welshofer say the soldier is himself a victim of mixed signals sent by U.S. commanders in Iraq over the treatment and interrogation of detainees.

The government says Welshofer suffocated Iraqi General Abed Mowhoush by pulling a sleeping bag over Mowhoush's head, tying it with electrical cord, then sitting on him and periodically placing a hand over his mouth.

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[mirage62 0]

I stand corrected. It may be a small number but it a number.

Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little

[rehmwa 2]

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That’s why when anyone tries to put a positive spine on the war specially with things that in reality are meaningless or very small compared to the negative out comes so far. It makes want to slap them.

So you want to restrict all pictures that oppose your viewpoint until your viewpoint is changed. Very enlightened.

A picture of soldiers (individuals) doing nice things doesn't:
1 - make me change my position on a war (big thing, political)
2 - make me feel better or worse about the military (huge thing, lots of people)
3 - give me any more 'spin' on the war than any other tripe from the media

it does:
1 - remind me that soldiers are people like the rest of us so I don't get bent about a class of people - I still keep the focus on the major actions and the effects
2 - remind me that these individuals need respect and we should get them home as soon as we can

those pics don't affect my stance on the war in any way shape or form, they are a non-factor. They only affect the small minded that can't separate their emotional feelings about politics from the reality of real people trying their best is difficult situations. Pics of Al Qaeda doing nice things wouldn't either. Because it's not pics of "Al Qaeda" it's pics of individuals.

But the wish to "slap someone" because you want their free speech restricted, is disturbing.

Do you get my point?

Do you have any friends over their right now? Maybe these pics will result in them being treated with more of the respect they deserve when they return instead of being spit on and accused of things they hadn't done. We have a doctor at our DZ back for a couple months before returning to Iraq. Do you want to stifle any info he has that is postive about the things he's done (taught, built, given?). Do you want to slap him if he tells his experiences (at least until you're converted.....)

Everyone "says" they respect the troops and only disagree with the politicians, but yet they want to restrict anything that shows the troops are human and real and deserve that respect. Your words and your actions don't match. If you really walk the talk, you'd not focus on angst against a pic of a man protecting a baby, you'd focus on policy statements and appreciate that even in this bad situation, we have caring humans out there.

I have no problems with real pictures. I don't make up my mind on single articles from the news.

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[pirana 0]

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>Make up your mind, Bill...it's either a puppet government or
>it's not...which is it?

Right now it's a barely functioning fledgeling government that's trying to get its act together. If we have to prop it up permanently to allow it to survive (as we are doing now) it will be a puppet government. If it asks us to leave (and we do) and it survives, then it will not be. I hope the latter happens, but so far we have had to do the former. They've had three years; will it take another three years? Ten? Thirty?

Without our presence, they would go down like a paper shack in a tornado. They can't even establish order WITH our presence. I get the feeling GWB knows there is no graceful exit and is resigned to simply handing this off to his successor. This will be his legacy and there's nothing he can do to save it now. It'll be interesting to see how historians look back on this once the emotions die down. My guess is that it will be viewed as a nasty, but understandable, blemish on our record.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[Darius11 12]

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1 - remind me that soldiers are people like the rest of us so

I don’t need to be reminded of what I already know. Yes the troops are real people there doesn’t really need to be a discussion about that or a reminder for me. I didn’t ever think they were genetically mutated robots.

It’s good to see all the pictures, but for someone to post these pictures as a positive side of war or the good things that are happening is just stupid. Yes everyone has the right to free speech but don’t make what has been posted something it is not. The war was a deliberate lie or a mistake at best.


Now I asked you a question if you care to answer it. How would you rate the outcome of this war so far as mostly positive or negative? You know how I feel.

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2 - remind me that these individuals need respect and we should get them home as soon as we can

All individuals deserve respect regardless of their nationality until they do something that makes them lose that respect.
I don’t think just because someone joins the armed forces they become an angle that does no wrong, never rapes, or commits murder. So when I see a news story backed by legitimate video or photographs of one of our troops committing a crime. I don’t just say oh it’s ok or try to find a million excuses just because he is wearing our uniform. I watch the facts. Unlike many here who are blinded to a point that they can not even admit the mistakes that are so obvious.

We even have a poster on here who thinks by far the war has been positive!!! maybe you agree i don’t know.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[penniless 0]

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>The stated reason for the Iraq invasion turned out to be false. We invaded a sovereign nation under false pretenses.<

These statements are false! Enough said.........

Ha ha. Even Colin Powell admits being embarrassed by the speech he gave to the UN. No-one in the administration claims any longer that Iraq had WMDs, that is just left to Newsmax. Even Bush isn't stupid enough to persist in claiming that!

[Skyrad 0]

Whats the story with the guy in the third picture???

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[misaltas 0]

>>1) Actually the US created and funded the Iraqi National Congress

Ok, but I just don't believe it's that black and white. Those fuckers did sell us a bill of goods though, and it's hard to believe we fell for it. (I was only replying to kallend's point that there was no invitation.)

>>2) No one in the region, even the Shiites that we left hanging out to dry wanted us to invade Iraq.

They looked pretty happy to me. What would you have them do, make official pronouncements of their support for our invasion plans? When we'd let them down before, weren't going to believe the invasion until we crossed the border, and didn't want to end up on Saddam's shit list--again--if he repelled our invasion? So how is it again you're so sure the Shiites didn't support our action?

>>3) Sure, the Kurds didn't want Saddam around but they were essentially running their own region of the country anyway, Saddam didn't have control of the north.

He had enough control to conduct military operations and kill civilians without the world (yes, including the US) doing anything about it.

>>4) You're right, Saddam DID have WMD's and he DID use them on the Kurds....but he was our ally at the time and we did nothing about it

I concede.

>>5) Powell stated early on in this administration that the sanctions had crippled Saddam's programs. Then 9/11 came and the story changed.

I concede. But in hindsight only. Many more than Bush at the time believed the evidence. Especially after 12 years of sabre-rattling and inspector smokescreens and expulsions. Not to mention Saddam bribed the UN and had friends on the security council he thought would stand in our way.

>>6) You're right, Saddam did continue to posture like he was still a dangerous man, BUT the UN inspectors were in the country with unprecedented access to any and all sites. Bush said we couldn't wait for the inspectors.

Couldn't wait? No way dude. First, no credible source believes the inspectors had access to any and all sites, especially any and all scientists and records. And second, that this "unprecedented access" only came about at the 11th hour. Give him 30 more days? We gave him 12 flippin' years!

>>7) I thought Saddam was a bad man, no doubt. But he wasn't a threat to us. What this administration did was to abandon the war on terrorism which was next door in Afghanistan

Good one. I cannot debate you on most of that so I won't. I too wish we had rolled all those divisions in Afg. instead. I believe Gen Zinni when he said Iraq was "contained". With the exception that Saddam was "no threat" to us, when he often declared us to be his enemy, ruled a terrorist harboring state, and was a threat to the region.

Ohne Liebe sind wir nichts

[idrankwhat 0]

Overall, I'm just ticked off about the war and I feel helpless while watching all that water that's already run under the bridge. Before the war we had the support of practically the entire world because of 9/11. This may sound strange but it was most evident to me when I was watching an English Premire League soccer game. They had a moment of silence for us and the entire stadium was absolutely quiet for at least 60 if not 90 seconds. I don't know if you've ever seen a European soccer game but that's a pretty amazing thing. Now that, along with most of the rest of the world's support, is gone. Our leadership can't travel the world without sneaking in under cover of night, the US World Cup team can't display the American flag on their bus but the other 30 countries can, we're stuck in Iraq for who knows how long and our kids are being stuck with a bill for the war that's already over $300 billion. And there's not a damn thing I can do about it.

[Lucky... 0]

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real people, in real situations... are they all bad? guess not !

Awww... the kitty is so CUTE!

I'm sure the women crying for their decapitated children will be comforted by that.

Yea, and when the killing gets worse, they'll bring out the puppies!

[Lucky... 0]

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>. . . try and make out the coalition troops are just as bad as the
> terrorists and militant insurgent fighters, . . .

No one is saying that.

>i think that the war haters/troop haters are just clutching at straws . . .

And I think you are making things up. No one here hates the troops.

>you can quote 50 cases of insurgent actions of murder and attrocity
>to every 1 case of troop similar action....

That number is probably high; it's probably closer to 200 to 1. The few who DO commit such atrocities, though, are doing immense harm to our efforts in Iraq. Because when an Iraqi hears that his father/brother/friend was tortured to death by the americans, he's not going to be too keen on figuring out statistics. And that Iraqi is going to be one of the people cheering the next time a coalition helicopter is shot down.

>on the whole the troops are doing an awsome job in very difficult
>circumstances . . .

Agreed.

>yet people want to slag them off because of the actions of a tiny
>minority of them, they try and draw comparisons by saying the
> actions of a few troops are just as bad as the actions of many
> insurgents . . .

The actions of a FEW troops are as bad as the actions of MANY insurgents; you admitted that above. Heck, you think that US troops are committing more atrocities than I do! That does not mean that all US troops are bad; indeed, most are doing the very best they can to try to bring peace to Iraq. The problems we are having over there are not due to a lack of effort by US troops - they are due to piss-poor planning and execution of a war by an incompetent administration.

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>you can quote 50 cases of insurgent actions of murder and attrocity
>to every 1 case of troop similar action....

But what's the ratio of US soldiers petting kitties to that of insurgents petting kitties? Bet you can't answer that.....

[Lucky... 0]

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I for 1 and glad they are fighting in IRAQ and not the US..

... And I want to know why the Feck they're still there!?

I supported the war! I still do!

I honestly believe that Iraq HAD to be liberated from the Ba'Athists & Saddam Hussein!

I quite frankly didn't give a Flying-Feck about the WMDs or lack thereof.

This was (at first) a matter of liberating the Iraqi people and giving them the opportunity to make choices about their future.

Well... Job done. Hussein & the Ba'Athists are toppled. Towns & cities are under control of an elected council. National elections have been held. The core of a new Iraqi police & military have been trained in neighbouring countries....

Time to come home and leave the Iraqi's to the self-determination which we are so fond of preaching.

Unless, of course, our troops are still there to follow some half-arsed hidden agenda to match the half-arsed plan!?

Mike.

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I quite frankly didn't give a Flying-Feck about the WMDs or lack thereof.

In case you were unaware, that was the motive to go into Iraq. Bush couldn't say it was about 9/11, as there was no connection from OBL to Sadam, so Bush drempt up this scheme about WMD's.

If you were in a bar fight that your buddy got you into and in the middle of it determined that it was your buddy who wholly started it aginst a smaller guy, a guy that did nothing, would you continue to fight and say, "I quite frankly didn't give a Flying-Feck about ......?"

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This was (at first) a matter of liberating the Iraqi people and giving them the opportunity to make choices about their future.

So sorry, that was maybe 2nd or 3rd.

[rehmwa 2]

You're not getting my point.

I think that the war has many stories. ALL are legitimate. The normal intelligent person can put all the info in the context of the big picture.

Only those that have blinders want to stifle one side or the other.

My position on this thread isn't about the war - but to your question, I think it stinks. My position is about those for it and against it that think any opposing viewpoint to theirs should be hidden.

The desire to stifle these types of pictures is just as bad as the desire to stifle pictures of atrocities as well. I've said it enough times. You can have the last word if you refuse to acknowledge it and want to continue advocating stifling of information.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Lucky... 0]

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We have over 30K dead counting both sides. We have thousands of people hurt and maimed for life.
All for what? I am sorry a few cute pictures aren’t going make me say “ hey we started a war with a lie and many have died but fuck I guess it’s worth it. I mean just look how cute that cat is”

Let me explain the pictures to you. See the media doesn't make any money off of cute pictures or pictures of our troops playing nice and praying and what not. They prefer the shock factor. I hate the media. You are playing into their twisted little world.

Don't believe everything you read.

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Let me explain the pictures to you. See the media doesn't make any money off of cute pictures or pictures of our troops playing nice and praying and what not. They prefer the shock factor. I hate the media. You are playing into their twisted little world.

Anything that counters the prevailing thoughts is of shock value.

[penniless 0]

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This was (at first) a matter of liberating the Iraqi people and giving them the opportunity to make choices about their future.

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Another one taken in by the White House propaganda machine.

Read the speeches made by Bush, Powell, Rice, Cheney and Rumsfeld in the spring of 2003 and you will see that liberating the Iraqi people and giving them the opportunity to make choices about their future.
was way down the list of reasons.

Do you REALLY think the American people would have supported the war if liberating the Iraqi people and giving them the opportunity to make choices about their future. was the sales pitch?

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[idrankwhat 0]

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This was (at first) a matter of liberating the Iraqi people and giving them the opportunity to make choices about their future.

.

Another one taken in by the White House propaganda machine.

Read the speeches made by Bush, Powell, Rice, Cheney and Rumsfeld in the spring of 2003 and you will see that liberating the Iraqi people and giving them the opportunity to make choices about their future.
was way down the list of reasons.

Do you REALLY think the American people would have supported the war if liberating the Iraqi people and giving them the opportunity to make choices about their future. was the sales pitch?

I have to agree with you, I can't figure out how to fit "mushroom cloud" into a liberation pitch.

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[Lastchance 0]

These pictures made my day.

I may be getting old but I got to see all the cool bands.