WOMEN ONLY???? WHAT THE??? If men tried this, we wouldn't hear the end of it.

[billvon 2,384]

>he world of liberal driven political correctness . . .

Do you think that the men's and women's attempts at Perris this past week were an example of "liberal driven political correctness?" If so, then we need more of that stuff, not less.

[bobjoy9 0]

***When you resurrected this three year old thread, you forgot to include this part in your post

Bloke, you've had three years to answer my question.
And still no answer.
You make remarks, implications but can't follow up.
Like stepping up to the plate with no bat, or BALLS?
Maybe that's why your defending the discussion cause you got no balls.

[billvon 2,384]

>Maybe that's why your defending the discussion cause you got no balls.

Your one warning. If you can't debate this without getting into personal attacks, then don't post here. (And it would behoove you to learn who you are answering before replying in the future.)

[wmw999 2,116]

Now, depending on what balls one is talking about, I'd say that Karen doesn't, in fact, have any balls

I can see both sides of the gender-specific jumps and all that.

When one is part of a minority that doesn't control what's seen as the power structure, one is often left out of things, simply because one is not who's thought of. Not even deliberate discrimination, just oversight. That doesn't make it OK, though, because the lack of exposure still means fewer opportunities.

So some of these events (gender skydives, etc) are a way to showcase talents and skills that are otherwise overlooked.

Of course, it's important to realize when you've become part of the power structure -- then your job is not to overlook the people who are just as worthy, but who don't automatically come to mind.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[kbordson 8]

Quote

Quote

When you resurrected this three year old thread, you forgot to include this part in your post

Bloke, you've had three years to answer my question.
And still no answer.
You make remarks, implications but can't follow up.
Like stepping up to the plate with no bat, or BALLS?
Maybe that's why your defending the discussion cause you got no balls.

Wow, Bob. Some issues here.

Point #1. I'm flattered that with all the respondents to that thread... you pick me to resurrect that thread! sniff sniff (wow... ) sniff

Point #2. You are correct. I have no balls. I technically have ovaries - I carry my lil reproductive tykes indoors. well maybe you meant a different type of "balls"... like red bouncy ones, or fuzzy yellow tennis balls or baseballs - and you were talking about stepping up to the plate. So lets go along the metaphorical pathway and assume that in reality that was meant as a "throw down".... kind of a "what are you, chicken?" to which I should respond "am not!!" and come at you guns a blazing. (do you know what guns are? You threw a baseball metaphor in there but I don't want to assume that you understand American)

Point #3 Men only skydives... the main topic of such hate and venom. Yes, Virginia, there ARE male only skydives. (hey... you called me a "bloke"... I can use a movie reference to refer to you as a lil girl) They might not be "advertised" as such or even intended as such.... but you have a CHOICE (at least here in the US) to jump with whom you choose. If you're walking out to the plane and you see a skirt climbing in... (although why wear a skirt on a skydive?).... you have the option to walk away and only board when there are ONLY BALLS on that plane. And trust me (do to the male and female ratio) there will be MANY planes that go up to the sky with men only.

Now... does the DZO have the right to exclude women from his dropzone. That opens the discussion on if it's a right to refuse service v. discrimination. And that answer depends.... is it on private property? what state (or in your case country)? Here in the US, the Civil Rights Act of 1964 prohibits discrimination and guarantees all persons the right to “full and equal enjoyment of the goods, services, facilities, privileges, advantages, and accommodations of any place of public accommodation, without discrimination or segregation on the grounds of race, color, religion or national origin.” (but... looking at it, it doesn't actually say gender discrimination... I could now point out The Women's Rights Project (WRP) which was founded in 1972 by Ruth Bader Ginsburg, to ensure women's full equality in American society.)

But with either complaint of discrimination (gender or otherwise), the DZO can still get a "good" lawyer to argue some exceptions:

As a general rule, right to refuse service can be based on one of the following five reasons:

-Patrons who are unruly (is "she" unruly?)
-Patrons who would place your business overcapacity in violation of local fire laws (the plane is already filled with "balls" and just cuz she stomps her Prada and DEMANDS to not be discriminated against... the plane is full.)
-Patrons who wish to be served after hours or just before closing, necessitating the expenditure of overtime for your employees. (hmmmm... can we throw the requests for "extra altitude" in here?)
-Patrons who bring non-paying customers with them that require more space than one person would be reasonably be allocated. In other words, if a paying customer brings three non-paying customers and is seated at a four person booth, service cannot be refused. However if the customer brings six non-paying customers, he or she can be refused service because it requires the use of more than the one booth allocated to the paying customer. (ok.... I don't think this one really would apply.... but you can try)
-Patrons who exhibit such poor hygiene that results in numerous customers leaving. (ummm.... on the dz, it's typically not the females with this problem.... and even if there are "poor hygiene issues" such as horrid foul egg and bean farts on the plane... the customers all leave anyway)

Ohhhh... but looking at current events - you're bitching about the Jump for the Cause now, aincha? You wanted to be one of the skydivers in that record. Well... first, there are MANY other ways that you can contribute cuz guys can get breast cancer too... and IF you happened to be one of those males and talked with the organizers of JTC and explained the situation... I'm sure there would be hugs and openness and you would likely be given a pink jumpsuit. The jump wasn't meant to EXCLUDE based on genetics, it was done as SUPPORT for those that develop malignancies in their ta-ta's.... Breast cancer hits 1 in 10 women.... That's a bit concerning... and many women ARE concerned about it. Secondly, as noted above, do a benefit for testicular cancer. SERIOUSLY.... no female would be upset by being excluded from a fundraising event for testicular cancer.... or if she would, she PROBABLY wouldn't hold a grudge for THREE FRICKIN YEARS.

Point #4 - Gender discrimination. It happens. My father was a Master Mason and a member of Zor Shrine. It's male only. But... not too many women are kicking down the doors of the temple demanding her "rights" to a fez (although the comments above about the tassels were kinda funny) SHOULD it happen? Honestly, I don't know the answer to that. I had a discussion with a friend yesterday about a "sausage hang" party and how he was disappointed that he couldn't bring his wife... I tried to explain to him my thoughts on it (which are actually kind of muddy). Basically it gets down to "sometimes guys just want to bond".... and likewise.... "sometimes girls just want to bond." When it's recreation... be with whomever makes you happy. When it's work or political, ignore the DNA.


So... I'm going back to my statement three years ago

***Move on. Life has much bigger issues.

[Nataly 38]

I think many good points have already been made.

For me it boils down to this: minorities tend to stick together to support one-another. In skydiving, women are a minority - sticking together isn't to *exclude* men, but to support one-another.

When it becomes inappropriate is when one group is withholding something from another group because it's in a position of power. Generally this is what majority groups do.

In short, the reason why exclusion is offensive in one form and not in the other is that one represents oppression, and the other represents support.

Honestly.. I can't think why a women-only forum would make men feel oppressed.. Not least because men are allowed to post there anyway!! They just have to be considerate that the forum mostly exists for women's concerns. If the boys want a boy-only forum, I don't think any of the ladies would complain - what is there to complain about?? Isn't the bonfire kind of a boy's forum anyway?!!

What Karen said:

Quote

Move on. Life has much bigger issues.

"There is no problem so bad you can't make it worse."
- Chris Hadfield
« Sors le martinet et flagelle toi indigne contrôleuse de gestion. »
- my boss

[marks2065 0]

there used to be chicks only skydives at hinckley years ago but most of us guys didn't have a problem. A couple complained and they were given an option of shutting up or demonstrating propper use of a tampon (on themselves) then they could join.

[LyraM45 0]

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This has been on my nerves for ages.
Women only skydives
Women only Forums

Crazyy or what.

If men tried this we would never hear the end of it.
Women would have our nuts in a sling and roast them over hot coals grind them up and feed our pressious balls to the dogs, then complain about how unfair we are or how prejudice men are and how men are right wing fascists with no morals or sensativity.

So what is it , are women not as equal as men and feel they have something to prove?
Why do they have to do these,,, "All women only jumps"? Is it because they are girls and need attention? No hang on,, they are just as good as men and deserve to be treated equal as men so they keep saying.
Do you see any "men only largest skydive attempts"?
Why would we even consider it?
It might have happened before by chance as there was no females around at the time or didn't have the experience, but if that is/was the case we sure as heck didn't sate "men only"

Give me a break , women only skydives, woman only forums, what next woman only wars, or women only polatics,,,, hang on,,, that wouldn't be a bad idea, now I think of it , cause we men can't get it right in politics, yeah then we can blame them. vote 1 women.

I would like to end this by saying that I like women, I came from one, I made one and I married one and I like sleeping with one.
I just feel that what I said needs to be brought out and acknowlaged as absurd and ludicrus. Get off ya high horse and just be a skydiver...

Uuhhh.... did you miss the fact that there was a new women's formation record as well as a men's formation record at a "womens event?" You might have heard of it-- it's called Jump For The Cause!

I think most women wouldn't care that there are men's records. I think most men wouldn't care that there are women's records. The only way I see one group being bothered is if it were only exclusive to that one group and the other group wasn't allowed to have their event. If there are women's records, men can have records, if there are gay records, then there can be straight records, etc. (though I know the world is not that perfect, as was mentioned by somebody that if there was a "white miss america" contest people would have an uproar.)

Get over it. I think you're making a big deal out of nothing.

Apologies for the spelling (and grammar).... I got a B.S, not a B.A. :)