War supporters-Please do not make the same stupid mistake again.

[vortexring 0]

So surely you must see how your answering your own question miked10270?

The U.S. will literally support anything for its own interests, through fair means or foul. The Golden Triangle? Set up to fund illegal ops. The Afghan opium trade? Set up to fund the Mujaheddin,etc,etc

This is boring isn't it?

People generally hate being pushed around - Arabic people especially - they're a proud race, and why not? Losing face means a lot more to individuals there than in the west. The Iranian Government wont back down on this.

So until some bright spark comes up with a peaceful solution, we're all in the shit.

So despite the Iranians being buddies with the U.S. before, they're not screwing the nut anymore, so the U.S. are looking to give them a shoeing.

And its not as if they're not asking for it........

'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

[likearock 1]

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My main point is that those people (like Paul) who pretend that Iran and Iraq are alike in terms of WMD are deliberately distorting the issue.

My main point is that iraq DID in fact have and deploy "Weapons of Mass Destruction" against the US! Iran is now threatening to deploy the very same weapons!

But these "weapons" aren't Nuclear, Biological or Chemical. These dangers to the peace & stability of Teh USA are in fact little pieces of green printed paper!

Insightful analysis. Tell you what. Make sure you explain to the families of the first people killed by a terrorist dirty bomb that we didn't try to stop Iran because our motives weren't pure enough.

[miked10270 0]

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Insightful analysis. Tell you what. Make sure you explain to the families of the first people killed by a terrorist dirty bomb that we didn't try to stop Iran because our motives weren't pure enough.

I will certainly do that... Next time I'm in Hiroshima.

It IS "Iran" I'll have to apologise for not trying to stop? Not The USA? Not Russia? China? Britain? France? North Korea? Israel? Taiwan? India? South Africa?

Of course not. It'll be a Muslim country. So that's definitely Iran.

Not Pakistan, they're getting US assistance.

Not Saudi Arabia, they just buy their nukes from Pakistan.

Anyway, Saudi Arabia and Pakistan are both pro-US, and are thus bound to remain so in perpetuity. After all, The House of Saud is every bit as stable as The House of Shah Reza Pahlavi... And for the very same reasons. Same with General Wozzizname Musharraf in Pakistan. No chance of him being toppled... Certainly not with America giving HIS Nuclear Program every assistance.

Mike.

Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable.

Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode.

[DaVinci 0]

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It's a fact that successive countries have been labelled as "EVIL" for a wide variety of reasons when they try to use The Euro as their Reserve (or Convertible) Currency.

Which came first, the chicken or the egg?

Did they get labeled as "evil" due to changing to the euro, or did they change to the euro due to not liking the US?

Either is possible. Also since more and more nations use the euro....It makes sense for more and more to want to use the euro.

You have not shown causality.

[IanHarrop 37]

So what did he say that was incorrect or untrue?

"Where troubles melt like lemon drops, away above the chimney tops, that's where you'll find me" Dorothy

[mikkey 0]

I saw a very interesting documentary here on OZ TV tonight about Al Zarqawi. Interesting because it explains a lot about the way AQ operates and how the current "war on terror" has made so many mistakes.

Here is a transcript:

http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/content/2006/s1628055.htm

Here are some snippets:

Quote

MICHAEL SCHEUER, CIA 1982-2004: Probably what's going to turn out is that the Iraq venture has been the biggest disaster for Israeli security in the history of Israel because, eventually, over time, we'll see al-Qaeda going into Jordan, into Syria, into Lebanon and eventually be on the borders of Israel to some extent.

Quote

DEBBIE WHITMONT: In Iraq itself, Zarqawi's efforts to provoke civil conflict have - according to many - already succeeded. Most of all, whatever his power on the ground, it's clear Zarqawi has become a powerful symbol for a new generation of al-Qaeda - trained and inspired by the internet and Iraq. How has Iraq affected al-Qaeda?

MICHAEL SCHEUER, CIA 1982-2004: Oh, I always say if Osama was a Christian it was the Christmas present he'd always asked his parents for but would have never believed it would actually be delivered. Ah, it broke the back of American counter-terrorism efforts and counter-terrorism policy. Iraq is smack in the heart of the Arab homeland. And it's going to be a magnet for mujaheddin for the foreseeable future.

---------------------------------------------------------
When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

[miked10270 0]

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Which came first, the chicken or the egg?

Did they get labeled as "evil" due to changing to the euro, or did they change to the euro due to not liking the US?

Either is possible. Also since more and more nations use the euro....It makes sense for more and more to want to use the euro.

You have not shown causality.

It's not about using the Euro, it's about The Euro becoming a convertible currency for oil trading and then used as the dominant reserve currency by the world's countries.

In this case, I've certainly showed a distinct correlation between several countries action and US reaction.

My own belief is that the Euro Egg came first. I certainly saw no vilification of President Chavez UNTIL he moved to allow oil trading in Euros. Suddenly, Chavez was "Evil" and should be executed! Iran was moving nicely along to re-integration / re-habilitation with "The West" UNTIL it moved to trade it's oil in Euros! Suddenly, Iran was sponsoring terrorism all over again! Iraq famously shifted it's reserve account at The UN from US Dollars to Euros. Suddenly it's linked to Al-Quieda, has WMD, and MUST be invaded.

Once Regime Change Democratisation Conquest was achieved, the first... THE VERY FIRST... thing that was done was to move the Iraqi National Reserve and it's oil trading back to The US Dollar!

So... In this case, The Euro "Egg" comes first. The US "Chicken's" response is to squawk and peck!

Incidentally, that is understandable. The US is using it's military to defend it's economy and preserve it's strength & worth as a nation. That's why most countries wage an aggressive war. Just as most countries who've waged aggressive war in the past have come up with some more acceptable "White-Hat" excuse for doing so.

But... At the end of the day, any invasion is really armed robbery writ large.

Mike.

Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable.

Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode.

[DaVinci 0]

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But... At the end of the day, any invasion is really armed robbery writ large.

Iteresting and well communicated answer. I am not sure I agree with it. We have had problems with Venezuela for years, but not so publicly. A good number of those years we had a different guy in the Casa de Blanco. Then when this group came in they were a little busy at first with the WTC2. Then after, or maybe as part of the rebuilding and defense, Georgie started listing bad guys.
Chavez was always a bad guy and now he is getting attention. Iran is wanting to develop nuclear abilities and has state that they wish to "Wipe Israel off the face of the Earth". That makes them Evil in my book. Iraq was supporting terrorsim. They paid money to suicide bombers. That makes them evil in my book as well.

You still have not shown how the one event of changing to the Euro has "made" these people/Countires evil. Changing to the Euro is smart move since it is the growing and stronger currency. Thats plain Ecomonics 101.

The timing could be explained by a number of factors, some of which I have explained.

[mikeat10500 9]

Some links to ant-war vids
some are funny...some not
Sorry not clicky



Bush Vs. Wonka
A "Bush Wants Candy" Film


http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5961866689701336877&q=wonka+bush&pl=true



Let's Bomb Iran!

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3851426890212250833&q=Let%27s+Bomb+Iran&pl=true






I know it sucks...but if people just look the other
way...


Mike want's people to think...
and it will require courage.

Iran has a population of 68 million people aprox.
Iran has a military capacity of 36 million troops from
it's half male and half female population between
18-49 yrs of age. They produce another 800 thousand 18
year old's ready for service every year.
They fight for a good cause...defending their nation.
Canada has been fooled as a nation.
We are ignorant not innocent.



Voice of America

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-569497786796782967&q=Americas+Defense&pl=true

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6565372336848280526&q=airforce&pl=true

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4300896230116951275&q=The+war+in+iraq&pl=true


Voice of Iraq

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1790242760788021067&q=the+illuminati+and&pl=true


Voice of Persian Armed forces

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2504730372443526258&q=Iran&pl=true


Voice of The New World Order

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1275151795786812331&q=back+in+black&pl=true


Vioce of Ozzy and Black Sabbath

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=496120040303670330&q=war&pl=true


The U.N. Deception

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2634703139474212867&q=constitution+duration%3Along+is%3Afree&pr=goog-sl

-----------------------------------
Mike Wheadon B-3715,HEMP#1
Higher Expectations for Modern Parachutists.

[Gawain 0]

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Iran has a population of 68 million people aprox.
Iran has a military capacity of 36 million troops from
it's half male and half female population between
18-49 yrs of age.

...and the USA's potential, using the same reference is more than double that. Roughly 134M. We could adopt cold-war era Soviet, Chinese and DPRK doctrine and use human waves until our enemies run out of ammo or melt their barrels. Sounds like a plan to me.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[mikeat10500 9]

Quote

Quote

Iran has a population of 68 million people aprox.
Iran has a military capacity of 36 million troops from
it's half male and half female population between
18-49 yrs of age.

...and the USA's potential, using the same reference is more than double that. Roughly 134M. We could adopt cold-war era Soviet, Chinese and DPRK doctrine and use human waves until our enemies run out of ammo or melt their barrels. Sounds like a plan to me.

All Americans between 18-49 are combat ready?
If so, are the willing, remember they fight for an unknown cause with visions of returning home safe some day. Iran has no such delusions.
They will have no choice but to fight or die. No were to run.
Americans, Canadians, British, etc have a choice...prison.
Regardless , the death toll would be extreme on one or both sides.

-----------------------------------
Mike Wheadon B-3715,HEMP#1
Higher Expectations for Modern Parachutists.

[Hawkins121 0]

Iran doesnt stand a chance... They know it. There wouldnt be a war. We would pound the fuck out of them for months until they surrendered. Thats it.

[Gawain 0]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Iran has a population of 68 million people aprox.
Iran has a military capacity of 36 million troops from
it's half male and half female population between
18-49 yrs of age.

...and the USA's potential, using the same reference is more than double that. Roughly 134M. We could adopt cold-war era Soviet, Chinese and DPRK doctrine and use human waves until our enemies run out of ammo or melt their barrels. Sounds like a plan to me.

All Americans between 18-49 are combat ready?
If so, are the willing, remember they fight for an unknown cause with visions of returning home safe some day. Iran has no such delusions.
They will have no choice but to fight or die. No were to run.
Americans, Canadians, British, etc have a choice...prison.
Regardless , the death toll would be extreme on one or both sides.

If I read correctly, you were referencing data from the World Fact Book..."capacity".

American's may have a choice, but if it gets on the line, we'll bleed to the end. Etc.

The death toll would be terrible for Iran indeed. You're assuming that we need to invade Iran. That won't happen. All that is needed is an air campaign to completely destroy their ability to wage war, hopefully seriously injure the leadership and it's done, and left with the people that aren't all that happy with these folks. Iran is not at risk of invasion by any of its neighbors.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[mikeat10500 9]

Quote

Iran doesnt stand a chance... They know it. There wouldnt be a war. We would pound the fuck out of them for months until they surrendered. Thats it.

No shit...even without the help of the entire free world, American military might is not in question.
But think about USSR and it's economic collapse after ten years in Afghanistan. Your on you way now.
Canadian Dollar = $0.93 US already.
Also consider how America treats it's own troops in battle. Military commanders resign not out of distaste for war.
They resign when their troops are
not supported or see bad military strategies forced apon them and their men.
The war strategie is boiled down to this...lots of casualties ....on both sides...don't fight to win ,but keep the conflict going as long as possible. You will go broke that way...that is part of the strategie I think.

P.S. They can not surrender...you have to kill them all. Including the children.

-----------------------------------
Mike Wheadon B-3715,HEMP#1
Higher Expectations for Modern Parachutists.

[mikeat10500 9]

Quote

The death toll would be terrible for Iran indeed. You're assuming that we need to invade Iran. That won't happen. All that is needed is an air campaign to completely destroy their ability to wage war, hopefully seriously injure the leadership and it's done, and left with the people that aren't all that happy with these folks. Iran is not at risk of invasion by any of its neighbors.

And you assume America's intrest in Iran are WMD's and not natural resources and political control...you will have to go in on the ground to get the oil, etc.
Look at Iraq and Afghanistan , what makes you think it would be any different?

-----------------------------------
Mike Wheadon B-3715,HEMP#1
Higher Expectations for Modern Parachutists.

[miked10270 0]

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Iran doesnt stand a chance... They know it. There wouldnt be a war. We would pound the fuck out of them for months until they surrendered. Thats it.

Absolutely!

In a conventional war, Iran's tactical & strategic situation is completley untenable. They're surrounded on all sides with less effective equipment than The US.

America can invade whenever it's stockpiled sufficient supplies and simultaneous armoured drives from Afghanistan, Iraq, Kurdistan & Kuwait should see them in Tehran within a fortnight. I doubt the Iranian army will even offer battle.

Of course, Iran will not wage a conventional war. That's why they're pursuing Nukes. Posession will make them uninvadable. Nukes will raise the invaders casualties to levels unacceptable to The American People.

Failing that, the reason that The Iranian Army will not offer battle will be that The Iranian Army is now "The Iranian Maquis"! They're all sitting back in their villages wearing dish-dashes with the AK47 & semtex buried in a nearby vegetable patch and waiting for the phone to ring. THEN... Roadside bombs, guerilla attacks, render the country ungovernable, uncontrollable. Just like the Viet Minh. Just like Saddam Hussein said would happen were Iraq to be invaded.

AND the Iranians WILL outnumber the American Forces. They can field all their 34, even 68 million people, active resistance AND innocent civilians - you tell the difference (unless of course Y'All were planning a genocide!)? Since America is playing "Away-From-Home", they have to leave their "innocent civilians at home to run the economy.

For the Iranians (just like the Vietnamese & the Iraqis), the formula of target identification is simple: An American at home in America is an innocent civilian. An American in Iran (their country) can't exactly melt into their society and is by their very presence an invader. Kill the invader!

Sure, were America to invade Iraq the "War" would be easy. The peace, however, will be unwinnable.

Then who's next? My money's on that other well-known supporter of international terrorism and seeker of WMDs... Venezuela!

Mike.

Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable.

Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode.

[mikeat10500 9]

Quote

Then who's next? My money's on that other well-known supporter of international terrorism and seeker of WMDs... Venezuela!

Mike.

Iran, lebanon and Syria were already maked by the Whitehouse in 2003.

Alex Jones video asking people to call WhiteHouse demanding not to attack Americans on their own soil (911) on July 25 2001

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8184253307321536024&q=alex+jones+warns&pl=true

-----------------------------------
Mike Wheadon B-3715,HEMP#1
Higher Expectations for Modern Parachutists.

[miked10270 0]

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... lebanon and Syria...

Naah... "Forces in the region already stretched" + No Oil! = Israeli Problem!
[Texas]"Y'All jus' make a Left at Palestinia 'n' follow yo' nose now, Y'hear!"[/Texas]



[Texas]"If Y'All need a hand jus' holler loud enough to be heard in Venezwaylia 'n' we'll sell yo' ass some missiles & planes! Y'All take care now & have a nice day."[/Texas]



Mike.

Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable.

Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode.

[Gawain 0]

Quote

Quote

The death toll would be terrible for Iran indeed. You're assuming that we need to invade Iran. That won't happen. All that is needed is an air campaign to completely destroy their ability to wage war, hopefully seriously injure the leadership and it's done, and left with the people that aren't all that happy with these folks. Iran is not at risk of invasion by any of its neighbors.

And you assume America's intrest in Iran are WMD's and not natural resources and political control...you will have to go in on the ground to get the oil, etc.
Look at Iraq and Afghanistan , what makes you think it would be any different?

Okay. I said nothing about the political motivation behind any of this. You were spouting about how fanatic the Iranian army is, and I was simply saying that the US can give as good as it gets, and then some. I've been there, I know this. You're still thinking we would invade aren't you? I'm simply stating an alternative view against the idea.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[wmw999 2,116]

Quote

All that is needed is an air campaign to completely destroy their ability to wage war, hopefully seriously injure the leadership and it's done, and left with the people that aren't all that happy with these folks.

The problem isn't with our ability to annihilate them in any number of ways. However, it's not their own leadership that the people would be pissed at most. It would be the people from another country that had done the bombing. And fear only lasts awhile in keeping people from trying to get back -- just look at how effective it's been in Palestine

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[mikeat10500 9]

Quote

Quote

... lebanon and Syria...

Naah... "Forces in the region already stretched" + No Oil! = Israeli Problem!
[Texas]"Y'All jus' make a Left at Palestinia 'n' follow yo' nose now, Y'hear!"[/Texas]



[Texas]"If Y'All need a hand jus' holler loud enough to be heard in Venezwaylia 'n' we'll sell yo' ass some missiles & planes! Y'All take care now & have a nice day."[/Texas]



Mike.

In the end...it's not all about oil.
Any Country that refuses to give up all control
to the UN gets starved out and then invaded.
U.S. is not the driving force behind this war.
Your Country is owned and operated by outside intrests just like mine.
I should say the Countrys we live in...we don't own them.
Abraham Lincoln and JFK tried to regain control of your Country and it cost them big time.

http://www.lib.umich.edu/govdocs/jfkeo/eo/11110.htm

-----------------------------------
Mike Wheadon B-3715,HEMP#1
Higher Expectations for Modern Parachutists.

[billvon 2,384]

>We would pound the fuck out of them for months until they
>surrendered. Thats it.

That philosophy worked in Vietnam. How's it working in Iraq? Victory must be just around the corner.

[Darius11 12]

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>We would pound the fuck out of them for months until they
>surrendered. Thats it.

That philosophy worked in Vietnam. How's it working in Iraq? Victory must be just around the corner.

Not around the corner we already won didn’t you see the speech "Mission accomplished"

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[Darius11 12]

Iran has the strongest military in the area.
An Air attack wouldn’t go as well as you think. Iran has Mig 29 not out dated mig 21 that Iraq had. The Iranian pilots are the best in the world. They all trained right here.
The Iranian people are not Arabs and even if they do not like the government they will unit and fight to the last man If it comes down to getting invaded.. Let’s not forget the whole world including the US supported Iraq during the Iran and Iraq war. They tried everything even WMD (witch at that time no one said shit. Hypocrisy is our foreign policy) still Iran took back the land and went in to Iraq. Iran was so close to capturing Iraq that American forces directly engaged the Iranian army to hold there advance.


Also in history it has been proven that a solder fighting for his home is worth about 9 solders fighting for a paycheck and a cause that they don’t believe in.


We have no right to be in Iraq we have no right to invade Iran. We act like bullies and wonder why we are so hated.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[miked10270 0]

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IIran has Mig 29 not out dated mig 21 that Iraq had. The Iranian pilots are the best in the world. They all trained right here.

Heh heh.

This reminds me of an old Cold War Joke:

A Russian Tank General and an East German Infantry General meet each other at The Eiffel Tower. One says to the other: "By the way... Who won the air war?"

Seriously. I doubt if the Iranian Army will even offer battle. They're bloody idiots if they do. America's ability to wage conventional war on the traditional European model is unrivalled. Their ability to deal with insurgency is frankly rubbish. Their TOE is completely geared to winning conventional battles like WWII with folk identifiable as combatants. But, it you take away that identification...

Iran would play to it's strengths. America has a history of being defeated in a guerilla war since they cannot bring their military superiority to bear against an identified target and a steady stream of body bags will reinforce public opinion that American troops should come home, back nearer Hollywood where they can talk about being "The Best".

Remember that Nixon won his presidency on a policy of bringing American Troops OUT of Vietnam. I could see a future president winning the election on a similar platform.

Mike.

Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable.

Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode.