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rushmc

There IS a problem with global warming... it stopped in 1998

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6 hours ago, billvon said:

And you know what?  I just checked - and the Sun is fusion powered!  His dreams will be answered by using solar-PV to extract energy from fusion.

 

You are right Bill!  But guess what, fossil fuels are just solar power in a more dense and convenient form.

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Some trump supporters here have suggested that companies can and should be allowed to monitor their own pollution. To trade and self account for pollution.

Sept. 2019 "President Trump announced last Thursday, August 29 that the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) will roll back another round of Obama-era emission regulations. The new EPA mandate would replace those initially introduced by President Obama requiring oil and gas companies to monitor and fix methane leaks from infrastructure equipment such as pipelines, storage facilities and wells."

Today "Oil and gas companies in the United States are hurtling toward bankruptcy at a pace not seen in years, driven under by a global price war and a pandemic that has slashed demand. And in the wake of this economic carnage is a potential environmental disaster — unprofitable wells that will be abandoned or left untended, even as they continue leaking planet-warming pollutants, and a costly bill for taxpayers to clean it all up....

The industry’s decline may be just beginning. Almost 250 oil and gas companies could file for bankruptcy protection by the end of next year, more than the previous five years combined, according to Rystad Energy, an analytics company. ...

Even before the current downturn, methane, a powerful greenhouse gas, was being released from production sites in America’s biggest oil field at more than twice the rate previously estimated, according to a recent study based on satellite data. Some experts say that with the industry in disarray, efforts to fix leaks of methane, which pound for pound can warm the planet more than 80 times as much as carbon dioxide over a 20-year period,..

The federal government estimates that there are already more than three million abandoned oil and gas wells across the United States, two million of which are unplugged, releasing the methane equivalent of the annual emissions from more than 1.5 million cars.

“They’re sitting there and they’re leaking. And they’re much leakier than a well that’s still in production and being monitored, although those leak, too,” said Robert Schuwerk, executive director for North America at Carbon Tracker. “And companies haven’t been setting aside the money, because they’d rather spend the money on drilling a new well.” As well as paying executives massive severance bonuses in the hundreds of millions of dollars.

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Just read the quotes, ignore the commentary.  I will help.
 

“Within a decade we can expect regular summer trade there {across the arctic ocean}.” — “Arctic Meltdown“, a NASA press release on 27 February 2001.

“By 2013, we will see a much smaller area in summertime than now; and certainly by about 2020, I can imagine that only one area will remain in summer.” — BBC, 13 May 2009.

“The entire ice cover is now on the point of collapse. …The extra open water already created by the retreating ice allows bigger waves to be generated by storms, which are sweeping away the surviving ice. It is truly the case that it will be all gone by 2015. The consequences are enormous and represent a huge boost to global warming.”

 The Scotsman, 29 August 2012.

“I have been predicting [the collapse of sea ice in summer months] for many years. The main cause is simply global warming …This collapse, I predicted would occur in 2015-16 at which time the summer Arctic (August to September) would become ice-free. The final collapse towards that state is now happening and will probably be complete by those dates.” — The Guardian, 17 September 2012.

“{T}he planet is swiftly heading toward a largely ice-free Arctic in the warmer months, possibly as early as 2020.” — Yale Environment 360, 26 September 2016.

“Scientists in the US have presented one of the most dramatic forecasts yet for the disappearance of Arctic sea ice. Their latest modelling studies indicate northern polar waters could be ice-free in summers within just 5-6 years. …Professor Wieslaw Maslowski told an American Geophysical Union meeting that previous projections had underestimated the processes now driving ice loss. …’Our projection of 2013 for the removal of ice in summer is not accounting for the last two minima, in 2005 and 2007,’ the researcher from the Naval Postgraduate School, Monterey, California, explained to the BBC. ‘So given that fact, you can argue that may be our projection of 2013 is already too conservative.'” — BBC, 12 December 2007.

is that better?

 

 

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13 hours ago, Phil1111 said:

Some trump supporters here have suggested that companies can and should be allowed to monitor their own pollution. To trade and self account for pollution.

 

Exactly!  Like Trump did such a good job of monitoring for illegal racist housing policies within his properties.  And Enron did a fine job of saving people money - the invisible hand of the free market ensured that everyone got the cheapest possible power.  Need another example?  Chemical plants in the US are over-regulated disasters.  But when Union Carbide built their insecticide plant in Bhopal, India, they had the freedom to optimize both profits AND safety.  No nanny state there!

This will be another success story like those.

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Scientists are watching the Thwaites glacier more and more closely.  It has already accounted for 4% of the sea level rise throughout the world.  If it lets go completely it could raise world sea levels by 2 feet.  And that will tend to make other glaciers move more quickly as well; as the rising sea lifts them and lets water get under their ice/rock interface, the water will allow the now-floating glacier to accelerate its trip to the sea.

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/environment/thwaites-glacier-antarctic-melting-doomsday-climate-a9616966.html

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47 minutes ago, billvon said:

Scientists are watching the Thwaites glacier more and more closely.  It has already accounted for 4% of the sea level rise throughout the world.  If it lets go completely it could raise world sea levels by 2 feet.  And that will tend to make other glaciers move more quickly as well; as the rising sea lifts them and lets water get under their ice/rock interface, the water will allow the now-floating glacier to accelerate its trip to the sea.

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/environment/thwaites-glacier-antarctic-melting-doomsday-climate-a9616966.html

Something of a tipping point then?

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17 hours ago, DJL said:

What do you think is the scientific consensus on when these events will occur?

They were to have occurred already.  With regard to consensus....

“No amount of experimentation can ever prove me right; a single experiment can prove me wrong”

A. Einstein 

Haven’t you wondered why climate apocalypse is always right around the corner, yet never seems to arrive?

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8 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Not to double-post, but I think a short story is warranted here, since it has to do with another problem related to climate change. I won't say what problem, because that is part of the story. From the book, Escape Velocity - The Anthology. (Collection of 48 sci-fi stories from 44 different writers all over the globe.) Story was written originally in 2001. 

The Earth and the Lion

Robert M. Blevins
 

 

Very appropriate, a work of fiction, just like catastrophic man made global warming. 

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(edited)
1 hour ago, brenthutch said:

They were to have occurred already.  With regard to consensus....

“No amount of experimentation can ever prove me right; a single experiment can prove me wrong”

A. Einstein 

Haven’t you wondered why climate apocalypse is always right around the corner, yet never seems to arrive?

From the very sources you posted, many of those people were considered to be alarmists and even in their own words described what they were talking about as the early scenario.  We're not saying there were not alarmists and we're certainly not standing up for anything Al Gore said.  Example; scientist said "Glaciers could be gone by 2015, Al Gore says, "All glaciers will be gone by 2015", Brenthutch says, "See, the experts said all glaciers would be gone!", everyone else says, "Most glaciers around the world are shrinking at an historic rate and no, Brenthutch, your gotcha doesn't change that."

Edited by DJL

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3 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

I don’t see Al Gore in any of those quotes.  Are you saying that NASA scientists are alarmists?

We were talking about him earlier and he used some of those guys in his propaganda.  There certainly are alarmists within the "NASA scientists" , they aren't a monolithic entity, there are even "NASA scientist" deniers.  

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4 hours ago, DJL said:

We were talking about him earlier and he used some of those guys in his propaganda.  There certainly are alarmists within the "NASA scientists" , they aren't a monolithic entity, there are even "NASA scientist" deniers.  

So would you agree that the science is far from settled?

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(edited)
2 hours ago, brenthutch said:

So would you agree that the science is far from settled?

I agree that you're quoting people working in fields who spoke from a perspective of theory at a point at which there was little historical data to show what's really happening and using that to make a statement about "science."  It's no coincidence that your favorite go-toes are tornadoes, floods and glaciers.

Edit: I should give you credit that you're references Arctic sea ice but again, you're referencing people who pushed a narrative of things happening faster than what the remainder of the scientific community agrees with.

Edited by DJL

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Until death/famine/EXTREME weather reaches/effects these nay sayers, they will continue to go about there day to day lives, uncaring and oblivious to what is happening GLOBALLY.  Be the ant and not the grasshopper.    

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5 hours ago, timski said:

Until death/famine/EXTREME weather reaches/effects these nay sayers, they will continue to go about there day to day lives, uncaring and oblivious to what is happening GLOBALLY.  Be the ant and not the grasshopper.    

And for many it will never reach them.  A rich guy in Denver?  He can pretend that nothing's changing for the rest of his life.

 

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4 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

He said anthropomorphic climate change wouldn't wipe us all out, but it would cause mass migration, local wars, and famine worldwide. 

I think some on the left are exaggerating a bit if they think it's a threat to all life on earth. The earth has been hotter in the past, and life will go on. It might be jellyfish and roaches instead of fish and mammals, but some sort of biological life will survive. Maybe even some humans will hang on by eating those jellyfish.

But our complex civilisation, with very expensive cities built near coasts, depending on food and water sources competed for between nuclear-armed countries, we're going to be in for a hammering.

I don't know about brenthutch but I kind of like my current lifestyle. I like driving around so it will be with an electric car instead of gas, I'll vote for more green energy so I don't have to move my expensive house to higher ground, and will eat less dairy and meat (big CO2 footprint) so I can enjoy a steak every now and then instead of having to fight other humans for a scrap of jellyfish from the overfished oceans.

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4 hours ago, olofscience said:

I think some on the left are exaggerating a bit if they think it's a threat to all life on earth...

...depending on food and water sources competed for between nuclear-armed countries, we're going to be in for a hammering.

 

That's exactly why it's a threat to all life on earth.

India & China are already 'getting frisky'.

What would happen if a billion Indians decided it was too hot to survive and moved northeast... 
Into China? 

Or north into Pakistan?

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1 hour ago, wolfriverjoe said:

That's exactly why it's a threat to all life on earth.

Even with an all-out nuclear war, plenty of bacteria, algae, nematodes, possibly roaches will survive. Maybe not much else. Then over millions of years something else will evolve.

But if roaches are brenthutch's favourite animal then he probably won't mind. I kind of do, though.

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