hobbes4star 0 #1 March 27, 2006 Isn't it a glorious day in the newly emerging western socialist empire? What's that you say? There is no totalitarian socialist empire in the west? I beg to differ. A few articles I read on the Internet the other day have convinced me otherwise. If you think you're living in a free society you'd better pull your head out of your ass and take a good look around. For example... The New York City Police Department is in-stalling 505 surveillance cameras around the city - and pushing to safeguard lower Manhattan with a "ring of steel" that could track hundreds of thousands of people and cars a day. Five hundred and five cameras. And New York isn't even the first city to do this...but it is definitely the largest. Invasion of privacy, you say. Ha! If you're not doing any-thing wrong you don't have anything to worry about, do you? Just don't make any honest mistakes. Or be somewhere you're not supposed to be. Or engage in any behavior you don't want anybody to know about. Like shopping for cigarettes, or alcohol, or pornography. Because somebody is going to be watching. Well who cares? Just another anonymous face on a monitor somewhere. Unless they can match your face with biometric information, of course. Like, for example, in Kansas. If you are stopped by police in Kansas, don't be surprised if the officer pulls out a little black box and takes your fingerprints. The gadget allows officers to identify people by fingerprints without hauling them to the police station. Over the next year the Kansas Bureau of Investigation will test 60 of the devices with law enforcement agencies around the state. It used to be that only criminals were finger printed. It was a stigma. "He got taken in and printed." But now it's a matter of course. They're trying to coerce citizenry to volunteer their biometric information by turning finger prints into "passwords" at the grocery store and for your computer. But if you're not quite that stupid they'll get it out of you by force, now. Did you say something subversive? Write a letter to the editor that somebody didn't like? Maybe vote for the wrong person in the last election? Don't be surprised if you get pulled over for not signaling a lane change and have your fingerprints taken and entered into the "system". And then what happens when they match that information with the record of everywhere you go and everything you do from all the camera surveillance? You take a guess, Sharky. Now for the best part. All of the money for these little public service projects is coming from homeland security Funds. And you know what that means...it's the Feds who are ultimately behind it all. Doesn't that make you feel nice and safe? Sleep well tonight. Just make sure the shades are drawn because there's probably a surveillance camera pointed at your window.if fun were easy it wouldn't be worth having, right? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
briguy 0 #2 March 27, 2006 up your dosage. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nanook 1 #3 March 27, 2006 Quoteshopping for cigarettes, or alcohol, or pornography. Because somebody is going to be watching. I think this above quote stood out the most for me. It seems if any of the above is considered something to hide, you might be lying to someone. None of these stuff are illegal. . . But mostly, If someone is not breaking any laws they would not have any reasons to fear any of this. I know this is a cop-out retort answer to this line of questioning, but I feel it rings true. Personally, I like the idea because it seems to have an ability over the long run to save a lot of money on bureacratic paper shuffling. You can spot a crook faster and be able to convict them a lot more quicker; a lot less trials per case. It would save a lot of investigative man-hours. You can downsize certain offices and completely get rid of whole departments. More than likely, there will be no real-time monitoring (It would be totally unfeasable to hire hundreds of govt people to stand a 24 hour watch) but it all be recorded until a particular time-frame in a certain area needs reviewing._____________________________ "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rasmack 0 #4 March 27, 2006 QuoteBut mostly, If someone is not breaking any laws they would not have any reasons to fear any of this... Fine. For all of you living in states with anti-sodomy laws, cameras are in the mail for wall-mounting in your sleeping rooms. Furthermore your food purchases are being logged, as muslims eat differently than the average American, and terrorists are predominantly muslim. Of course you are also required to have microphones in your home, so your conversations can be creened for subversive content, but you should not be afraid of this, because law-abiding citizens have nothing to hide... Just teasing ya with the examples, but the argument remains valid. There are such things as privacy and freedom.HF #682, Team Dirty Sanchez #227 “I simply hate, detest, loathe, despise, and abhor redundancy.” - Not quite Oscar Wilde... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #5 March 27, 2006 Quoteshopping for cigarettes, or alcohol, or pornography. Because somebody is going to be watching. Gee sounds like items that are sinful. Knowing who purchases these sinful items would be important in a fascist theocracy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nanook 1 #6 March 27, 2006 I beleive in privacy and freedom too. I beleive you have the same amount of privacy in public places now, with or without the cameras It's just that with the cameras, being "questioned by an cop on the street" is more efficient._____________________________ "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Luv2Fall 0 #7 March 27, 2006 "shopping for cigarettes, or alcohol, or pornography. Because somebody is going to be watching." "They" can watch me all they want. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nanook 1 #8 March 27, 2006 QuoteKnowing who purchases these sinful items would be important in a fascist theocracy True. . .But it would have to be a fascist theoracracy. I have complete confidence in those Third Party types and Civil Liberties groups to fight tooth and nail against any imbalance towards fascism_____________________________ "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skygeek 0 #9 March 27, 2006 So your own Freedoms arent worth fighting for yourself? You want someone eles to do it for you? o I see... Welcome to the New World Order. Expect no Mercy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hobbes4star 0 #10 March 27, 2006 Wasn't some company in the news recently for telling it's employees that they have to quite smoking or find a new job. I looked but could not come up with the story.if fun were easy it wouldn't be worth having, right? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nanook 1 #11 March 27, 2006 QuoteSo your own Freedoms arent worth fighting for yourself? You want someone eles to do it for you? o I see... I can't really fight for my own freedoms right now. Can only Q-Back politick right now till I get out. Politics does intrigue me. You might see me in some office in the future._____________________________ "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rasmack 0 #12 March 27, 2006 QuoteQuoteKnowing who purchases these sinful items would be important in a fascist theocracy True. . .But it would have to be a fascist theoracracy. I think Amazon's point might be that infringing on your privacy is exactly the way to institute a fascist theocracy. I am not saying that this is what president junior and his friends are doing, but you should make damn sure they don't have the opportunity.HF #682, Team Dirty Sanchez #227 “I simply hate, detest, loathe, despise, and abhor redundancy.” - Not quite Oscar Wilde... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nanook 1 #13 March 27, 2006 QuoteI think Amazon's point might be that infringing on your privacy is exactly the way to institute a fascist theocracy. I am not saying that this is what president junior and his friends are doing, but you should make damn sure they don't have the opportunity I get you. . .I agree with her previous statement then._____________________________ "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pirana 0 #14 March 27, 2006 Quote"shopping for cigarettes, or alcohol, or pornography. Because somebody is going to be watching." "They" can watch me all they want. "I like to watch." - Chauncey Gardner" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,391 #15 March 27, 2006 >But mostly, If someone is not breaking any laws they would not have >any reasons to fear any of this. Really? A politician would have no reason to hide that he once bought "Long Dong Silver" on DVD? How about a divorced dad, whose ex-wife is claiming he is a pervert in a custody battle? Information is power, and we should be wary about giving the government absolute power. >More than likely, there will be no real-time monitoring (It would be >totally unfeasable to hire hundreds of govt people to stand a 24 > hour watch) People don't watch any more. Computers do, and can recognize key words, faces, license plates, transactions and behavior patterns. Just tell the computer to "look for Joe Smith" and it will be able to track Joe down on street cameras, via credit card bills, train usage, toll roads, and food purchases. Making that information available to government computers is the issue here. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #16 March 27, 2006 You have to admit.. that kind of knowledge does give you an idea of WHO your "evildoers" are.... from there its just a matter of defining the parameters of evil or sin... and dealing with those who you label as "evildoers.. or sinners" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ROK 0 #17 March 27, 2006 QuoteYou have to admit.. that kind of knowledge does give you an idea of WHO your "evildoers" are.... from there its just a matter of defining the parameters of evil or sin... and dealing with those who you label as "evildoers.. or sinners" I'm scared. I rarely break too many laws, and I'm still scared... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #18 March 27, 2006 QuoteI'm scared. I rarely break too many laws, and I'm still scared... That all depends on your church attendance. do you go to church every sunday morning to official forgivenness for your sins. I guess anyone who is out at the DZ nice and early on Sunday would be immediately suspect... especially after sinning after the beer light came on Saturday night. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Luv2Fall 0 #19 March 27, 2006 QuoteQuoteI'm scared. I rarely break too many laws, and I'm still scared... That all depends on your church attendance. do you go to church every sunday morning to official forgivenness for your sins. I guess anyone who is out at the DZ nice and early on Sunday would be immediately suspect... especially after sinning after the beer light came on Saturday night. I'm in the Church Invisible. Am I at risk? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #20 March 27, 2006 QuoteI'm in the Church Invisible. Am I at risk? Of course you are.. unless the government can verify your attendance.. you are certainly in trouble Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Luv2Fall 0 #21 March 27, 2006 QuoteQuoteI'm in the Church Invisible. Am I at risk? Of course you are.. unless the government can verify your attendance.. you are certainly in trouble Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ROK 0 #22 March 27, 2006 QuoteQuoteI'm scared. I rarely break too many laws, and I'm still scared... That all depends on your church attendance. do you go to church every sunday morning to official forgivenness for your sins. I guess anyone who is out at the DZ nice and early on Sunday would be immediately suspect... especially after sinning after the beer light came on Saturday night. Uh, I go to church. I'm not a Catholic though. So I may still be in trouble. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sixtysevengt5oo 0 #23 March 27, 2006 Can anyone out there honestly say that the havent broken a law before, can you even honestly say that there is a day that goes by that you dont break atleast one law, even if its just a measly trafic violation. I doubt any of us could, chances are that if cameras were in place all over the city they arent going to try and get you for that kinda stuff, but isnt it a bit unerving that we are allowing them the power to do so. Everyday the country begins to sound and look a whole lot more like 1984 allowing the government to detain someone for an indefinate time without being told what they are charged with, or allowing then the opporotunity for bail all under the guise of National Security, allowing our words to be recorded and monitored in case we say and HOT words, being video taped so as to watch our every mistake, and no one taking a loud if not violent stand against it. We have become complacent about our government, and assume that everything they do is for our safety, but we are giving our lives to them on a silver platter, they may not come after us yet, but we have afforded them the ability to do so whenever they decide. We are constently being led astry like a flock of sheep and a herder that can do whatever he wishes. The best way to improve our government is to constantly critisize it, force it to earn its ligitimacy from us. We have forgotten that the only power the government is allowed is the power that the people afford it. And we are obligated by our founders to alter or abolish any government that abuses or steps beyond the power that we the people afford it. I dont remember ever affording them the right to have me on video survelance, yet they do any way, seems like they are overstepping a little to me, yeah? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ROK 0 #24 March 27, 2006 seems like they are overstepping a little to me, yeah? Agreed. How do you stop them? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hobbes4star 0 #25 March 27, 2006 Good question.if fun were easy it wouldn't be worth having, right? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
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