have fun trying to prove black is really white

[rehmwa 2]

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No one expects the F117 Stealth Fighter!

wasn't the quote something like "no one expects the Belgian light infantry"?

I'm blocking it out for some reason.

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Steel 0]

Religion is something that was created to control the masses through the fear of god and therefore, I do see it as an improvement for the world if all religion went away.

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Come on man, fence-riding here? Christianity more good or more bad (harmful)?
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I will answer this question because it does sound legitimate. The rest of your, Billvon, and Wendy's posts in response are the same spin that we have been through over and over again. I point out the inconsistencies in the arguements and then you all reject the facts. I am not bored enough at work to play today.

I can see why you would think I was riding the fence. I will try to be more specific. First of all Christianity is an extension to Judiasm. That is it was started by Jews who were impressed enough with Jesus. I do think it was started based on good intentions. But I see so many inconsistencies in the bible that I find it silly to accept it as fact in its entirety.
I wish all people were free-thinkers that did not need something like religion, but that may just not be the case. I am not sure about this. I would say that Kallend, BillVon and Wendy are all members of a religion, I call "Liberalism". See to me religion means a group of people that follow blindly without really thinking for themselves at all. Reading one of their posts are like reading the Democratic talking points of the day. As opposed to most of the people representing the conservative views here. For example several of us have stated we are agnostic. I am for animal rights, against abortion, support Bush on the port deals with UAE. I disagree with O'reilly on the male version of Roe-Vs-Wade and on whether or not Lesbianism is a problem that needs to be addressed in the high schools.
The point is I don't take a position on an issue just because it is the position of the group I agree with most of the time. I keep an open mind unlike the lefties here.

Back to the main point. Take all the charities that Christianity has been and is currently involved in, take all the people that live honest lives because of the fear of a Christian god and compare that with a bad decision that they may have made (the Inquisition) centuries ago. When looking at it that way, I do believe that they have done more good than bad. Notice, I did not say the Crusades. That was an excellent necessary task. If you take the foggles off when reading the history, you will see that the Crusades were a response to unprovoked Muslim aggression. Centuries before the Crusades, Muslims starting in Arabia had conquered Countries as far west as Spain and as far East as India. They definately needed to be stopped.
,

If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass.
Can't think of anything I need
No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound.
Nothing to eat, no books to read.

[skydyvr 0]

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The facts are that christians have been as violent, if not more violent than muslims in the past, and today extremists use the holy books of both religions to do fucked up things.

What Christians did in the past means NOTHING in defense of what Muslims are doing today. Why the constant comparisons?

Here's the deal:

Muslim oriented terrorism (and abuse of women, etc., etc., etc.) TODAY compared to Christian violence TODAY is like setting a beachball next to a ping-pong ball. It's hardly noticable, and certainly makes a failing argument when trying to excuse the whole culturally and technologically inferior lot.

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[billvon 2,391]

>What Christians did in the past means NOTHING in defense of what
>Muslims are doing today. Why the constant comparisons?

Because people say things like "christians would never use the BIBLE to defend such practices, like muslims use the koran!" They did.

Those who fail to study history are destined to repeat it.

>It's hardly noticable, and certainly makes a failing argument when
>trying to excuse the whole culturally and technologically inferior lot.

So to you, muslims are culturally and technologically inferior to christians? And people here wonder why muslims think we hate them . . .

[skydyvr 0]

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Because people say things like "christians would never use the BIBLE to defend such practices, like muslims use the koran!" They did.

Hmmm, never heard anyone say that.

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Those who fail to study history are destined to repeat it.

Agreed, but there's no further use in continually bringing up Chrsitianity's past to excuse today's behavior by Muslims. That's what I percieve from the left -- excuse making.

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So to you, muslims are culturally and technologically inferior to christians?

Oh yes, but more accurately, the west is way ahead of the east in almost every capacity. Those folks need to get a clue.

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And people here wonder why muslims think we hate them . . .

I don't hate them, I just recognize backwardness when I see it. Not that the west isn't backward too, buit the differences are plain to see.

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[billvon 2,391]

>Hmmm, never heard anyone say that.

You've been reading this forum for . . . how long?

>Agreed, but there's no further use in continually bringing up Chrsitianity's
> past to excuse today's behavior by Muslims. That's what I percieve from
> the left -- excuse making.

Correct. Studying history, however, does promote understanding of how any religion can be misused.

>I don't hate them, I just recognize backwardness when I see it.

Your statement pretty much says it all. Most people have better eyes than that, fortunately.

[Shotgun 1]

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Agreed, but there's no further use in continually bringing up Chrsitianity's past to excuse today's behavior by Muslims.

I think that you might be confusing Muslims with Radical Islamists...

But then, hmm... the Radical Islamists probably think of themselves as Muslims, just as so many different people think of themselves as Christians (even though they have such radically different beliefs).

[skydyvr 0]

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I think that you might be confusing Muslims with Radical Islamists...

Sorry, I don't get confused that easily.

Muslim-based culture: it is backward and behind the west by a long shot. Of course, that's just my opinion -- you're free to believe that serial abuse of women (and on and on and on) is just fine.

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[Shotgun 1]

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Muslim-based culture: it is backward and behind the west by a long shot.

Ok, personally I think that Christian-based culture is pretty backwards... It advocates oppression of women and oppression of non-Christians. Why don't we just try a culture that involves actual thinking, rather than turning to some stupid religion for telling you how to live your life?

[skydyvr 0]

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Ok, personally I think that Christian-based culture is pretty backwards... It advocates oppression of women and oppression of non-Christians. Why don't we just try a culture that involves actual thinking, rather than turning to some stupid religion for telling you how to live your life?

That seems 100% correct, added to the fact that Christianity is a little less oppressive than Islam these days.

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[ViperPilot 0]

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It advocates oppression of women and oppression of non-Christians.

How? Besides the far right wing psychos, how does Christinaity do so? I've never really seen anything like this...at least in modern times.

[Shotgun 1]

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It advocates oppression of women and oppression of non-Christians.

How? Besides the far right wing psychos, how does Christinaity do so? I've never really seen anything like this...at least in modern times.

I could be wrong, but I think of Christianity as following the word of the Bible, which does proclaim women to be inferior to men (or it at least implies that women should be subsurvient to men) and non-Christians to be horrible sinners.

[skydyvr 0]

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How? Besides the far right wing psychos, how does Christinaity do so? I've never really seen anything like this...at least in modern times.

Look at the Bible -- women get the short end of the stick from beginning to end.

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[sundevil777 93]

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So to you, muslims are culturally and technologically inferior to christians? And people here wonder why muslims think we hate them . . .

Why are they hated? Because their leaders are facists that want to dominate the world by hate and violence. Unfortunately, the western world has largely accepted the claim that their campaign of hate and violence is in support of the Palestinian people.

Why are they hated? A couple of examples:

Warning: If you only accept information from so called impartial sources, then don't bother to read the articles below.

Martyrs for Sex and Paradise:

http://www.naomiragen.com/Column%20Archive/MartyrsForSex.htm

The Big Lie:

http://www.naomiragen.com/Column%20Archive/TheBigLie.htm

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[skydyvr 0]

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>I don't hate them, I just recognize backwardness when I see it.

Your statement pretty much says it all. Most people have better eyes than that, fortunately.

Heck, I'll make it easy -- give me a couple ways they're NOT culturally and technologically backwards. Help me get in focus.

Edited to add -- and no fair reaching back to the 14th century for examples.

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[ViperPilot 0]

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it at least implies that women should be subsurvient to men) and non-Christians to be horrible sinners.

Well I haven't read the bible cover to cover, so I'm no expert. But you do have to take into account when the bible was written. Back then, it was completely fine to expect women to be housewives and nothing else. There was no such thing as the career woman. Maybe in today's standards that's a bad attitude, but back then, it was completely normal. I don't think it's a normal thing for most christians to follow that message. The bible also may say to help others become christian, preach to them, etc...but I don't think it advocates pure murder of those who aren't christians solely for not being christians...the koran does (if you're not Muslim, aka a believer, you'd better fear for your life).