Separation of Church & State

[SwampThing 0]

I need to vent before I go do something I shouldn't.

Saturday night we were having a small family crisis that ended up with our 13 year old running away / sneaking out at eleven PM.
My wife and I went to the local Police substation to file a report since this is an ongoing thing and we feel we should take these steps to document things.
At the Police station, (we live in a small community of 15,000) we were told that a missing person report could not be taken for three days, and that the kid would return by then so why waste their time.
The desk officer then added his own editorial about how the reason the kid ran away is because WE have no morals. He doesn't even KNOW us!
He said that since we haven't accepted Jesus Christ into our hearts, our problems were just starting and that we have nothing to look forward to but hell and damnation.
My wife told him that we are very moral people and that we have a different religion to guide us and that since we are Jewish we don't "accept" Christ the way he does.
He looked surprised and said he'd never met a REAL Jew, but that our religion was a false one and that we needed to speak with some Minister friend of his.
He then gave us several handouts and business cards about his religion and why it's the only TRUE God, Blah Blah Blah.

I was in shock at the whole thing, not only was the kid missing and they refused to help in any way, but we were told it was our MORALS that caused him to leave.

I'm SERIOUS about this.

The kid came home Sunday and we are dealing with that, but I'm so fired up over the God's little helper wearing a badge and a gun that I'm tempted to call the local paper and or begin some kind of action to get these guys fired!

1939 all over again!

Am I wrong here?

The Pessimist says: "It can't possibly get any worse!"
The Optimist says: "Sure it can!"

[IanHarrop 37]

I think you need to complain to as high a level as you can!!! There has to be some state body that oversees local policing so if you don't get satisfaction in your town I'd take up the ladder.

The way you were treat is wrong in so many ways.

"Where troubles melt like lemon drops, away above the chimney tops, that's where you'll find me" Dorothy

[rehmwa 2]

Elevate through his management. He's out of line, even if in his own mind his intentions are good.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[warpedskydiver 0]

you are entitled to file a lawsuit, possibly in a federal venue!

[TheAnvil 0]

The fellow meant well, but he was waaaaaaaay out of line. I think he should be reprimanded. Get an appointment with the Chief of Police or the Mayor. If they won't set an appointment, have your attorney do it for you.

Not sure if you would classify this as a first ammendment violation. Despicable - absolutely. The city acting on behalf of a religion - it's employee, perhaps, but not the city.

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[PhreeZone 15]

What would your thoughts be if this was occuring on those new "faith based cities" that I've seen popping up on the nightly news programs? Where you have to be a member of a church to even move to the community becase they passed city ordanices stating that?

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[kallend 1,623]

It's OK, it's just a "faith based initiative".

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[SkyDekker 1,122]

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What would your thoughts be if this was occuring on those new "faith based cities" that I've seen popping up on the nightly news programs?

it won't get real interesting until the political support based cities start popping up.

[SwampThing 0]

Good advise in my opinion, my wife doesn't want to push the issue saying what do you expect from some small town cops stuck on the midnight shift.

Personally I'm PISSED!

In the politically correct environment of today, I would have never thought something like this would EVER be an issue I would have to deal with from Law Enforcement people!

The Pessimist says: "It can't possibly get any worse!"
The Optimist says: "Sure it can!"

[airtwardo 6]

Funny...you don't LOOK Jewish!


If there's anything I can help you with Swampy, you have my number...

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[jdfreefly 1]

I think that if he was following policy with respect to the 24 hour limit on filing reports, and the sermon came after it had already been determined that you could not be helped at that time, he was perfectly within his rights to do what he did.

I would also add that you are perfectly within your rights to complain loudly and often, and to anyone who will listen.

I see it more as an abuse of power then an issue of separation of church and state. If he had said, "I am not going to help you because you are a sinner, and it is the policy of the police department to deny service to non-christians."... then, certainly, this would be a violation of the separation of church and state.

I will say this, I certainly wouldn't want him working in any police station near me, and if he did, I would do everything within my power to get him fired.

Methane Freefly - got stink?

[brierebecca 0]

Call your local ACLU office. They can give you some advice about your rights, and may even file a lawsuit for you.

Brie

"Ive seen you hump air, hump the floor of the plane, and hump legs. You now have a new nickname: "Black Humper of Death"--yardhippie

[rehmwa 2]

Good point - from jd

1 - If it seemed he didn't help because of policy, then the only issue is the religious speech after the fact. That's how I read it. As such, there is a ton of overreaction on these responses (talk to the mayor, call the ACLU). In ALL situation, start with his immediate supervisor and then move up the chain until getting satisfaction.

2 - If it seemed he didn't help because the original poster wasn't Christian - I didn't see that in the posted story, but..... there is still a ton of overreaction on these responses (talk to the mayor, call the ACLU). In ALL situation, start with his immediate supervisor and then move up the chain until getting satisfaction. Then, if the management chain up through the city officials seems to accept this as a system-wide acceptable behavior, certainly then the ACLU should come in guns blazing - but not before.

The knee jerk response to make an event in these things is terrible in my mind. The top city officials and the ACLU are there if the departments "can't fix the problems first." I'd give the guy's management first crack to fix his preaching-on-the-job issue before escalating.

Chain of command is there for a reason.

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I would do everything within my power to get him fired.

would you really? What if he's chastized by his management and stops (proslytizing) for good? Whould you still make that person's livelyhood your personal vendetta just because he gave a little speech (this is assuming he followed policy and the 'little speech' was just added after the fact).

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[mr2mk1g 10]

Send a Rabbi down the station to talk him into converting. Make sure he takes along a few leaflets and tells him how he's going to go to hell for worshiping the wrong God etc.

Next night send along a dozen friends to pray for his soul right there in the station since he wouldn't accept the one truth told to him by the Rabbi and insists on following his heretical ways.

Then ask him how he liked it when you have a meeting with him and his boss.

[SwampThing 0]

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I think that if he was following policy with respect to the 24 hour limit on filing reports, and the sermon came after it had already been determined that you could not be helped at that time, he was perfectly within his rights to do what he did.

***

Let's look at that for a moment.
We were not told there is a 24 hour 'limit' on reporting a missing person, we were told it is 72 hours. And following some research this morning, I'm told that in fact there is NO time frame what so ever!
A missing person report on a minor "Can And Should" be submitted at the earliest opportunity according to the downtown Police office.

These guys just didn't WANT to do the paper work.

And how is it that a public official is "Within his rights" to tell us that our chosen religion is wrong and that we are going to Hell because of it?

My taxes go toward paying the salary of the idiot that tells me I am NOT MORAL because I don't follow HIS beliefs?!

I hope you are joking!

The Pessimist says: "It can't possibly get any worse!"
The Optimist says: "Sure it can!"

[Icon134 0]

That's kind of really wrong... that is what the officer did...

My uncle used to have problems with his middle daughter sneaking out at night... I can ask him what he did to correct the problem. (ultimately she turned out ok... she's an engineer, and married to an engineer...)

I know my dad used to have problems (she never snuck out but she was often out past her curfew.) with my little sister as well. She also appears to have turned out ok...

As I understand it... the reasons for seperation of Church and state in the US is to protect the Government from the church.

Of course since our government system is actually baised on the Episcopal Church's governing system... it seems kind of strange but...

Ultimately it sounds as if y'all are good people...

Livin' on the Edge... sleeping with my rigger's wife...

[IanHarrop 37]

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...
We were not told there is a 24 hour 'limit' on reporting a missing person, we were told it is 72 hours. And following some research this morning, I'm told that in fact there is NO time frame what so ever!
A missing person report on a minor "Can And Should" be submitted at the earliest opportunity according to the downtown Police office.

These guys just didn't WANT to do the paper work.

And how is it that a public official is "Within his rights" to tell us that our chosen religion is wrong and that we are going to Hell because of it?

My taxes go toward paying the salary of the idiot that tells me I am NOT MORAL because I don't follow HIS beliefs?!
...

Now I'm thinking that rather than just lazy, the officer didn't take your report because you to do not follow his religion.

Complain higher than just his supervisor, or it will get brushed under the rug. Get a written apology stating that they have learned not to push their religion and that they will follow procedures regardless of anyone's religious beliefs.

"Where troubles melt like lemon drops, away above the chimney tops, that's where you'll find me" Dorothy

[Amazon 7]

Wow.. just wow.....


The Bible Belt is in fine shape.

[tcnelson 1]

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Call your local ACLU office. They can give you some advice about your rights, and may even file a lawsuit for you.

Brie

if you're not in a minority group or you're not a homosexual pedophile, don't expect much from the aclu.

"Don't talk to me like that assface...I don't work for you yet." - Fletch
NBFT, Deseoso Rodriguez RB#1329

[Amazon 7]

Dont forget the Nazi's.. they did a good job of getting them rights to march...

[tcnelson 1]

blah blah blah...blah blah blah blah blah...

i'm sorry...what?

"Don't talk to me like that assface...I don't work for you yet." - Fletch
NBFT, Deseoso Rodriguez RB#1329

[Tink1717 2]

You need to complain as loud and as long as possible. This is seriously wrong. You should get a hold of the local ACLU to see whether or not this can be a criminal matter. If so, press it as far as you can for as long as you can. Do not let this x-tian taliban wannabe get away with this.

Skydivers don't knock on Death's door. They ring the bell and runaway... It really pisses him off.
-The World Famous Tink. (I never heard of you either!!)
AA #2069 ASA#33 POPS#8808 Swooo 1717

[jenfly00 0]

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The fellow meant well, but he was waaaaaaaay out of line. I think he should be reprimanded. Get an appointment with the Chief of Police or the Mayor. If they won't set an appointment, have your attorney do it for you.

Or just attend his church next Sunday and you can talk to all of them at the same time.

-----------------------
"O brave new world that has such people in it".

[SwampThing 0]

Thanks for the replies guys!

I know I'm just a little testy about the whole:
Guy in a uniform with a gun telling me my religion is bad,- get the tattoo gun and the cyanide tablets ready...thing.

And I do realize that even though it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, in this case it's really NOT a duck. But either way, it just shouldn't fly!
Not here, not now.

I've made an appointment to meet with the Mayor any my local councilman later in the week. Hopefully by then I will have calmed down enough to make a logical unemotional complaint and ask only for reasonable satisfaction from those that were most definitely out of line here.

Thanks again for letting me vent!

The Pessimist says: "It can't possibly get any worse!"
The Optimist says: "Sure it can!"

[Amazon 7]

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i'm sorry...what?

Its good when someone knows their limitations.

http://www.aclu.org/about/index.html

The mission of the ACLU is to preserve all of these protections and guarantees:

Your First Amendment rights-freedom of speech, association and assembly. Freedom of the press, and freedom of religion supported by the strict separation of church and state.

Your right to equal protection under the law - equal treatment regardless of race, sex, religion or national origin.

Your right to due process - fair treatment by the government whenever the loss of your liberty or property is at stake.

Your right to privacy - freedom from unwarranted government intrusion into your personal and private affairs.


I would think you as a supposedly patriotic american would support the ACLU and their fight for the RIGHTS as spelled out in our Constitution... no matter how much you might disagree with the group they are defending.

Maybe you are not really in support of other Americans after all.