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skiNEwhere

What's wrong with Wings Containers?

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I'm looking to buy my second rig, and I'm considering getting a Wings.

Doing a search on the interwebs, I found a link from this site that doesn't speak too highly of them http://www.dropzone.com/safety/Gear_and_Equipment/6_Ways_to_Be_Less_Dumb_When_You_Buy_Used_Skydiving_Gear_1219.html

I've also heard second hand from jumpers, without them giving a specific reason, albeit I got the impression they never owned one.

Everyone I've spoken to who has actually owned them has spoken highly of them.

Am I missing anything here, or am I just asking the wrong people?
Life moves pretty fast. If you don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it

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I've jumped a wings for 500 jumps. There is nothing wrong with them. They are comfy, cheap and a decent quality. Not the best, but decent. I even had a malfunction on one (spinning main), and their "reserve boost" worked flawlessly, I had a reserve overhead as I reached arm stretch.

However, you have to know a couple of things:

-They are particularly sensitive to overstuffing the reserve. The design of the top reserve flap makes the reserve tray too "closed up", which might require more force to extract the reserve dbag, so get an appropriately sized reserve.
-It will look sketchy if your rigger uses a closing loop too long, as the RPC will not be fully seated. But that applies to all rigs. On partially exposed RPC it is more evident though.
-They don't accept slider holders as easily as other containers.

Other than that they are perfectly fine IMO.

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Don't Believe everything you find on the internet as everyone will have a different opinion. it is like asking what car do they like Best?
the Wings container is a good+decent Rig and popular these days. as the previous poster said, do not overstuff the reserve on them. I found the Customer Service Very Good in the past, especially when Rick Moetle was there but had little or no dealing with them in a couple years.

By the way what size Wings are you looking to get for that second Rig? B|B|B|

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That combination works. I've packed a few PD176 reserves into w13 and w14s. (same reserve tray) A 170 main will fit a w13, but you will be a happier packer if you get a w14.
Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

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There are some questions about the design of the upper corners of the reserve tray but another issue is that they have a bad habit of lieing to people about what will fit in to one of there containers. Call them up and ask if some thing will fit and the answer will always be "Yes! buy our container!"

Lee
Lee
[email protected]
www.velocitysportswear.com

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I dunno if other riggers disagree, but I think the Wings is just about my least favourite rig to pack a reserve into, especially smaller ones. It's sort of a "square peg into a round hole" issue.

While there are plenty of Wings rigs around because of the price, and the build quality seems like any other rig, they aren't the easiest to get the reserve and pilot chute compressed into the container so that the pilot chute fabric doesn't get exposed.

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I love mine, bought it second hand for my first rig and I'm happy to pass it along to my girlfriend as her 1st rig.

I watched my rigger repack the reserve with NO issues...

I also had a wingsuit cut away(fuck me line twists) with no issues there either.

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I dunno if other riggers disagree, but I think the Wings is just about my least favourite rig to pack a reserve into, especially smaller ones. It's sort of a "square peg into a round hole" issue.



Our dropzone had various Wings dealers at Sundry times, and we used Wings student rigs which I repacked for close to 6 years. They are a good rig - I think skydiving needs more good, basic systems that will get people in the air safely. I have a wings for an accuracy rig (Enormous W28) but all my sport rigs are another brand. Just like any rig they have their strengths and weaknesses. Here is my opinion (Warning: Opinion ahead). Here's my opinion, I'd love to hear people agree or disagree - I love these kinds of discussions!

(+) Cost: Affordable Rig that gets people in the air at a reasonable price
(+) Customer Service: I've had modifications done, spare parts ordered, rigging help requested - they do a good job.
(+) Wings Boost: I believe it is a better Skyhook. It can be installed by modifying the the reserve bridle only, no container modifications, is reasonably priced, and has much less bulk.
(+) Reserve Flaps, Pin Protection, Tuck Tabs: Secure, safe for any type of skydiving.

(-) Reserve PC: Excessive bulk. On smaller wings, the diameter is close the the width of the reserve tray, which means when packed close to max, will be very difficult to have it seat correctly.
(-) Wear: This is a soft criteria, but Wings seam to wear and tear more than other rigs and not age as well. This is an opinion and based on observations and not data.

*Edited for spelling only
=========Shaun ==========


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There are some questions about the design of the upper corners of the reserve tray but another issue is that they have a bad habit of lieing to people about what will fit in to one of there containers. Call them up and ask if some thing will fit and the answer will always be "Yes! buy our container!"



Yep, had one of those and it was way too tight. Sure it was a new canopy but advised customer to speak with Sunrise as they had sized the container. Next time the container reappeared it was a new container more appropriately sized.


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While there are plenty of Wings rigs around because of the price, and the build quality seems like any other rig, they aren't the easiest to get the reserve and pilot chute compressed into the container so that the pilot chute fabric doesn't get exposed.



I agree with this to a certain extent - stuffing the pilot chute material between the spring coils always seems to make it sit up a bit higher. Packing like a Javelin, Vortex, Glide which pull the material out from between the spring coils always seems to make pilot chute seat better.
Small containers on all the containers about have similar problems when the pilot chute cap is almost the width of the container.

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(+) Wings Boost: I believe it is a better Skyhook. It can be installed by modifying the the reserve bridle only, no container modifications, is reasonably priced, and has much less bulk.


I agree with this that I like the simplicity of the wings boost and the lack of modifications to the container allowing for it to be retrofitted.

The containers themselves are decently made. They are competitively priced and people still buy them.

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Packing like a Javelin, Vortex, Glide which pull the material out from between the spring coils always seems to make pilot chute seat better.



You will have coil-lock about 1 time of 10 packed PC, esp on "tight" containers (and most of them tight)
We tested them a lot - thus those numbers.
Lexa

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skytribe


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(+) Wings Boost: I believe it is a better Skyhook. It can be installed by modifying the the reserve bridle only, no container modifications, is reasonably priced, and has much less bulk.


I agree with this that I like the simplicity of the wings boost and the lack of modifications to the container allowing for it to be retrofitted.

The containers themselves are decently made. They are competitively priced and people still buy them.


+1 on that. Generally speaking, I think pin based MARDs are better than skyhook. The skyhook was the first massmarketed MARD, it has worked pretty well, but could be improved. Pin-based MARDs are less bulky, simpler design, no (or almost no) container modifications, and I would even bet that there is less chance of it disconnecting when it shouldn't. What I don't like is the lack of Collins lanyard.

I think it would be lovely to have better collaboration between manufacturers to make better and safer rigs. In this context, the holder of a pin-based MARD patent could allow its use in vector rigs, and in exchange UPT could allow collins lanyard to be integrated in the rigs of this other manufacturer. That would be a triple win. For UPT, for the other manufacturer, and for us, jumpers. Am I asking too much? Maybe Bill Booth can chip in and share his thoughts here? ;).

Maybe opening a thread about "frankenrigs" would be interesting, to give feedback to manufacturers about what we would like to take from each one? For instance, I'd like to have a vector as a base rig, but with the following parts from a curv: d rings on the closing flaps (similar to Sigmas), the curvature on the back, "suregrip" handles and hip rings/leg straps. From Javelin I'd take the partially exposed RPC, the "phat daddy" handles (with "suregrip"), the chest rings, the backpad and the "outer shell" (lack of secondary riser covers, and the lateral flaps, Javelin's outer appearance is cleaner than any other rig IMO). From aerodyne the long middle ring. From Wings, its pin MARD instead of skyhook (but keeping the collins lanyard) ands its AAD cutter placement (same as Javelin).

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You will have coil-lock about 1 time of 10 packed PC, esp on "tight" containers (and most of them tight)
We tested them a lot - thus those numbers.



And that's the point - the reserve pilot chute requires to be packed that way or you have a high chance of coil lock.

So you have container with a RPC that requires it to be packed in a very specific way, otherwise it will inherently make it sit up a little higher and result in increased chance of pilot chute material revealing as the pack job settles.

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WingsEXT with Safire 169 & 249 Dash M for over 1,000 jumps. Never any issues. The EXT was much better for my long torso when throwing out the pilot chute. Other rigs, I had to curl my upper body to get my arm far enough back to reach the PC.

Sold it to another Anvil some time back. Think its still in use today.
Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

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We are discussing two different shapes of pilot-chute spring: conical and cylindrical.
Conical springs have a large diameter at the top (crown/apex/cap) (Javelin and Racer.) They were developed from the early MIL SPEC US MA-1 pilot-chute.
Meanwhile Vectors and their clones use reversed conical springs that are wide at the base, reducing the need for kicker plates. Vector pilot-chutes are narrow at the top, but include wide aluminum top plates.
Because every coil is a different size, coil lock is almost impossible with conical springs. Different container manufacturers tell riggers to pack mesh and fabric a dozen different ways to distribute bulk in the prettiest way.

OTOH Every coil in a cylindrical spring (Strong, Rigging Innovations, Wings, etc.) is the same size, making coil lock far more easy. That is why cylindrical spring manufacturers insist on stuffing mesh and fabric between the coils. Mesh and fabric separate the coils preventing coil-lock.
My experience differs from Alexey's because I worked at Rigging Innovations for years and only ever saw a couple of coil-locks.

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skiNEwhere

Right now I'm looking at the w-13. Looking to fit both a 170 main and reserve



I have a w13 with a PD176, and a Pulse 170. The PD176 is tight, and the Pulse 170 fits nicely. I just bought a OP176 to try and give a little more room in the reserve tray.

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thevasc21

***Right now I'm looking at the w-13. Looking to fit both a 170 main and reserve



I have a w13 with a PD176, and a Pulse 170. The PD176 is tight, and the Pulse 170 fits nicely. I just bought a OP176 to try and give a little more room in the reserve tray.


Bring it to me. W13 is the same reserve tray as w14. PD176 fits easily for me. I've packed dozens of them.
Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

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I have two Wings containers, a W-22 from 2000, and a W-14 from 2013.

Both have a Sabre 190 main and PD 176 reserve.

I had the first one sent back to get the BOOST system added.

The W-22 is not tight at all for the parachutes in it.

The W-14 seems tight for the main, but I haven't jumped that much lately, so it is still a new main.

I highly recommend the magnetic riser covers.

Wings are beautiful and comfortable.

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pchapman

I dunno if other riggers disagree, but I think the Wings is just about my least favourite rig to pack a reserve into, especially smaller ones. It's sort of a "square peg into a round hole" issue.

While there are plenty of Wings rigs around because of the price, and the build quality seems like any other rig, they aren't the easiest to get the reserve and pilot chute compressed into the container so that the pilot chute fabric doesn't get exposed.



Agreed...they can look like crap pretty easy which makes it more of a pain in the ass. Javelin's can be similar but I find that the wings are more needy...for sure with the smaller ones. They aren't my favorites by any means (and I think they're chic rigs).

For those that are saying it's gravy...please post the pics of the finished product so we can see what you consider 'looks good'. Without a doubt some will find they are not a problem while others fight with them. But I've seen a lot of very shitty pack jobs on these rigs out there and I'm sure the rigger thought they looked just fine.
my pics & stuff!

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For those that are saying it's gravy...please post the pics of the finished product so we can see what you consider 'looks good'.




I'm saying the canopy fits into the freebag and container they recommend no problem. I am not saying it's easy to make it look good. It's fricking hard. And even if you do make the cap sink in a little bit two weeks later it will be sticking up on one side. If you don't get the bulk perfectly distributed the ear will collapse right at the centre of the cap. One thing I've found that helps is to get a lot of bulk up top, but not at the very top. And a major part is getting the pc fabric inside the coils. I need a ratchet type closing tool to do this nicely. I need two hands to work the material and slowly crank it closed. Plus there is nearly zero tolerance for loop length. But in general shorter is better. Of course, not too short. Good luck.
Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

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But I've seen a lot of very shitty pack jobs on these rigs out there and I'm sure the rigger thought they looked just fine.



On a teeny wings where the reserve PC cap has the same diameter as the width of the reserve tray - a small wrinkle in one of the ears would hardly be considered a shitty pack job. I think the problem is when the reserve PC rises up and exposes the Pc material or coils. Just last month a customer of mine bought a brand new Wings and AF114 reserve - looked beautiful going out but he came back 3 weeks later with a significant gap that had developed. I ended up taking 10mm off the closing loop and putting more bulk in the ears. This weekend I'll get a picture of it after the adjustment and post it here for fun and see how it is settling in.

These discussions are always circular largely because 'easy' and 'hard' are opinions. I find Small wings challenging but a certain 2-pin pop top (no names, I don't want to hijack this thread) about the 'easiest' thing in skydiving to pack.
=========Shaun ==========


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