livendive 8 #76 February 21, 2006 QuoteQuoteSure, it's her choice to do it, but if people think she's a bad mother for doing it, they're right. I don't think so. I think it's a poor choice, but smoking a cigarette while pregnant certainly doesn't make her a bad mother in my mind. She's demonstrating that her own satisfaction is more important to her than her child's health. My nephew Gage was born December 8th addicted to methamphetamines. Obviously the health effects of that drug are several orders of magnitude worse than those of nicotine, but there is a similarity in the attitude that produces them. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RhondaLea 3 #77 February 21, 2006 QuoteShe's demonstrating that her own satisfaction is more important to her than her child's health. My nephew Gage was born December 8th addicted to methamphetamines. Obviously the health effects of that drug are several orders of magnitude worse than those of nicotine, but there is a similarity in the attitude that produces them. It has nothing to do with attitude and everything to do with addiction. Satisfaction is not the word I'd use, and I wouldn't chalk it up to choice. As far as cigarettes are concerned, nicotine is more addictive than heroin. But there are lots of potentially unhealthy things women can do while they're pregnant, as well as unhealthy things men do to them while they're pregnant. In the end, most women do the best they can with what they have to work with. rlIf you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,384 #78 February 21, 2006 >It works as long as you're "Pro-choice",doesn't it? No. Pro-choice means that the woman makes the choice, not the government. Abortion is still bad no matter how you look at it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,384 #79 February 21, 2006 >Anyone who refers to a baby this way shouldn't be a mother. So an OB-GYN is unfit to be a mother? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #80 February 21, 2006 Quote It has nothing to do with attitude and everything to do with addiction. Satisfaction is not the word I'd use, and I wouldn't chalk it up to choice. As far as cigarettes are concerned, nicotine is more addictive than heroin. We might have to just agree to disagree here. I've been smoking for 20 years, and I still consider it a choice every time I light a cigarette. Sure, the option of not lighting a cigarette can be difficult to choose (or I would have by now). But the option does exist for every pregnant woman, every time she lights up. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lisamariewillbe 1 #81 February 21, 2006 Did you smoke while your wife was pregnant? If so, research shows thats bad for the baby as well. Even if you went outside to smoke.Sudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RhondaLea 3 #82 February 21, 2006 QuoteDid you smoke while your wife was pregnant? If so, research shows thats bad for the baby as well. Even if you went outside to smoke. The firm's legal administrator just had surgery to remove a cancerous tumor in her lung. Her only risk factor was second-hand smoke. rlIf you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #83 February 21, 2006 QuoteDid you smoke while your wife was pregnant? If so, research shows thats bad for the baby as well. Even if you went outside to smoke. I did not smoke around her and have not heard of any research suggesting ill health effects of exposure to bad breath. She did smoke at first while pregnant, but eventually quit. I think she smoked through her entire second pregnancy but am not sure. In any case, she later took to smoking in the house, where I imagine the health effects on the kids (mine and her second husband's) are worse. Unfortunately all I can do is advise, not force. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RhondaLea 3 #84 February 21, 2006 QuoteWe might have to just agree to disagree here. I've been smoking for 20 years, and I still consider it a choice every time I light a cigarette. Sure, the option of not lighting a cigarette can be difficult to choose (or I would have by now). But the option does exist for every pregnant woman, every time she lights up. Nicotine is physically addictive, Dave. So it's not quite a choice. I've mentioned before that I tried to quit several times while I was pregnant. I failed. But there were other things going on in my life at that time that were a lot worse for Beck than smoking a cigarette. rlIf you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lisamariewillbe 1 #85 February 21, 2006 Myth: Only women need to worry about smoking and pregnancy. Fact: It takes two sexually healthy people to make a baby. Males who smoke are more likely to have fertility problems. Sperm produced by a smoker is a different shape and less mobile than sperm produced by non-smokers. Male smokers produce less sperm and secretion of the male sex hormone testosterone is affected by the chemicals in tobacco smoke.1 When a woman is pregnant, smoking by the father may result in a low-birthweight baby and a higher risk of the baby dying after birth. These effects may be due to the pregnant mother's exposure to environmental tobacco smoke or from direct damage from the sperm.2,3 Taken from http://www.health.nsw.gov.au/health-public-affairs/mhcs/publications/7405.htmlSudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #86 February 21, 2006 Quote Males who smoke are more likely to have fertility problems. Sperm produced by a smoker is a different shape and less mobile than sperm produced by non-smokers. Male smokers produce less sperm and secretion of the male sex hormone testosterone is affected by the chemicals in tobacco smoke.1 When a woman is pregnant, smoking by the father may result in a low-birthweight baby and a higher risk of the baby dying after birth. These effects may be due to the pregnant mother's exposure to environmental tobacco smoke or from direct damage from the sperm.2,3 In other words, the man smoking anywhere *before* conception or around a pregnant woman can be harmful to the fetus. His smoking away from a pregnant woman cannot do anything to a fetus. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lisamariewillbe 1 #87 February 21, 2006 Enviroment includes the stale stench left in clothing and on hands...Sudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #88 February 21, 2006 QuoteIts the medical term for a baby while it is in the mothers womb. MANY people do not believe the baby is a baby bla, bla, bla, bla... yak, yak, yak, yak.. Same thing I hear from you over and over again.. A bunch of woman's rights crap.. Fetus this.. It... that... Your attitude is poor when it comes to the value of a human life.. Who cares what PEOPLE think.. Stop stating everyone elses beliefs and come up with your own belief system.. Stop cowaring behind women, society, the masses and philosophy, defend children and innocence for once in your life... For goodness sake.. Step up... Rhino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lisamariewillbe 1 #89 February 21, 2006 HEY ASSWIPE read everything I say, I have time again said WHAT I BELIEVE, right now I believe your a dickhead who cant seem to read a freakin thread without attacking women.Sudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,384 #90 February 21, 2006 Rhino, LisaM, your one warnings. Cut it out. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #91 February 21, 2006 QuoteSo, you can make all the judgments that you like, but my own experience is that those who feel the need to control everyone else do so because they have no self-control. Further, I can tell you from my own experience, such people make singularly lousy parents. I'm not judging anyone. You have to live with you. Fortunately I don't. Keep rationalizing and making excuses for things you know are wrong. Someday the kids will be grown and gone.. then you can deny any of it ever happened to make yourself feel better.. That, "I became a mom against odds" crap may work with someone else. not me.. No symathy here. If you had to work to get pregnant and you STILL decided to smoke? Well the proof is in your face.. Saying "I bacame a mom against all odds" is a rationalization and excuse for poor behavior.. Believe me, the only person that buys it is you.. Look in the mirror.. No matter what you post on here and how you try and defend yourself "and say it's all o.k." you have to ultimately live with you.. Rhino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #92 February 21, 2006 Quotenicotine is more addictive than heroin. Excuses.. Lots of them coming from you. Anything can be quit with a decision. I've known pack a day smokers to just STOP. And never again have an urge to smoke. Simply because they stopped rationalizing and made a decision. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #93 February 21, 2006 QuoteAbortion is still bad no matter how you look at it. nice..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #94 February 21, 2006 QuoteI've been smoking for 20 years, and I still consider it a choice every time I light a cigarette. YES!!! Someone that isn't making excuses or rationalizing... Very refreshing.. Backbone and real honesty is a good thing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RhondaLea 3 #95 February 21, 2006 QuoteQuotenicotine is more addictive than heroin. Excuses.. Lots of them coming from you. Anything can be quit with a decision. I've known pack a day smokers to just STOP. And never again have an urge to smoke. Simply because they stopped rationalizing and made a decision. It's not an excuse, it's a statement of fact. I've never said it was okay for me to smoke when I was pregnant. I know a lot of people who can take cigarettes or leave them. I also know a lot of people who can do the same with drugs and alcohol. That doesn't change the fact that for some people, all these things address a biochemical issue that needs to be resolved. That's not a judgment, it's just a fact. It is also a fact that quite a few very good mothers smoke cigarettes, whether you believe they should be allowed to be mothers or not. I'm not disputing the dangers of smoking while pregnant; I'm disputing that you have the right to decide how other people should live. rlIf you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #96 February 21, 2006 QuoteI'm disputing that you have the right to decide how other people should live. Well... I hear you.. We have an entire prison system full of people that feel just like you do. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RhondaLea 3 #97 February 21, 2006 QuoteQuoteI'm disputing that you have the right to decide how other people should live. Well... I hear you.. We have an entire prison system full of people that feel just like you do. Those people in the prison system aren't there because they're breaking "Rhino's Personal Rules of Behavior." They're there because they forgot that their right to swing stops at the end of the next guy's nose. Very often, people go to prison for precisely the reason that they thought they should be able to control another person, and so failed to exercise self-control. rlIf you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peacefuljeffrey 0 #98 February 21, 2006 Quote- stinks disgustingly - Like you do when it goes a bit tits up on a jump? Besides can't smell you in cyberspace, you might have a very pungent aroma that offends others. Nope. I'm talking (obviously) about a day-to-day stink that pervades one's breath, hair, clothes, car, furniture... It's disgusting. Me, I bathe regularly and don't stink as a rule. Smokers stink right after that first cigarette even just after a shower. Quote- costs a lot of money - Ummm, is'nt skydiving expensive unless you have a sexual favours deal going on with your CCI? Will you compare what a person gets out of smoking a pack of cigarettes favorably to what a person gets out of a skydive? Quote- damages one's health? All those beer fines can't help one's liver can it? And I bet you are right up front of que bumming off the newbie! I can probably count on one, maybe two hands the number of dropzone beers I've drunk. I don't care for alcohol, I don't care much for beer, and so I don't drink them much at all, on or off the dropzone. So no, I'm not at the front of the "queue" for beer. --Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Beckz70018 0 #99 February 26, 2006 QuoteQuotefetus she carries Anyone who refers to a baby this way shouldn't be a mother. Well damn, I guess it's a little late for someone to be telling my MOM that. But, that's quite alright, cause I'm pretty damn happy with the mom I've got. As she stated, she smoked while she was pregnant with me, and I came out just fine. And I'm still doing just fine. Geesh, I swear, so many people think that they have the RIGHT to judge about everything in everyone elses lives, well, do me a favor, wait, do everyone in the world a favor. Take a step back, and look at your own life before you criticize anyone elses choices, or actions. Weren't you taught the same thing in pre-school that I was? Worry about yourself, and what you do, and not what other people do. Oh, and my other favorite one, MYOB! If it doesn't affect your life, then it isn't your problem, or business. If anyone had the right to say anything to my mother, it would be me, and I have nothin to say. I know this is a few days late. But, I just read it, and had to say something. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
