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How do you feel about pregnant women smoking?

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but then again the sole right stops being such when you include an unborn....

Nope...you may wish it were no longer her sole right, but in reality it continues to be the woman's right to smoke or not smoke (whichever she chooses) even when she is pregnant.
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A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

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but then again the sole right stops being such when you include an unborn....



No actually it doesnt, for as long as a woman is able to murder her un-born child it is her right and her right alone to decide. Its not illigal for a doctor to shred the baby from the mothers womb and suck out the pieces, it is not illigal for a woman to smoke while pregant and it is for now the womens right to choose, NOT a mans.

Women who ADMIT to doing drugs while pregnant still continue to do drugs because until that child is born, the doctor is under confidence to protect his patient THE WOMAN.

Men want a say in what happens to their un-born child then maybe more should stand up for the child in all aspects and not just when it concerns THEIR child.
Sudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this
Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this

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The problem is that when the do, they still have no rights on their off spring.

If a husband and wife are together, and the father is part of this woman's life he should have rights on at least to be informed if that child is never going to be born......
"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon

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Actually, in an adult women, she has the SOLE right to what she does with her body. Granted I am against abortion but lets face the truth, its her body and she is the one who still can legally do with it what she wants.



Maybe so. But the child’s body is not her body. The child is a separate being all together. Once a woman gets pregnant "like it or not" humanity dictates that she take care of herself because she is now responsible for that child. You don't have to agree and frankly I don't give a damn if you do or not. Most women sympathize with women.

SOME women need to take their role much more seriously while pregnant and stop making excuses for themselves and others. That "It's my body and I'll do with it what I want to crap" is a bunch of shit. That's why family court is so fucked up. That's why fathers are shit on these days "Even the good ones".

People need to quit their fucking whining and accept responsibility for their actions and weaknesses. Too many excuses and rationalizations in here.

Bottom line... You get pregnant you have a duty to that child. Your life now becomes secondary to that child. If you continue to put yourself first "like smoking" you should consider adoption.

Who cares how "acceptable" smoking was 30 years ago. It's still a sorry ass excuse for WEAKNESS and selfishness. Women who smoked and smoke while pregnant are setting the stage for their entire child’s life. That stage says, "A cigarette is more important to me, your mother, than you are. Welcome to my world of stink and second hand smoke little baby. This is moma's fucking house. You don't have to like the air, you just have to breath it.."

End of story..

Rhino

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Actually, in an adult women, she has the SOLE right to what she does with her body. Granted I am against abortion but lets face the truth, its her body and she is the one who still can legally do with it what she wants.



Maybe so. But the child’s body is not her body. The child is a separate being all together. Once a woman gets pregnant "like it or not" humanity dictates that she take care of herself because she is now responsible for that child. You don't have to agree and frankly I don't give a damn if you do or not. Most women sympathize with women.

SOME women need to take their role much more seriously while pregnant and stop making excuses for themselves and others. That "It's my body and I'll do with it what I want to crap" is a bunch of shit. That's why family court is so fucked up. That's why fathers are shit on these days "Even the good ones".

People need to quit their fucking whining and accept responsibility for their actions and weaknesses. Too many excuses and rationalizations in here.

Bottom line... You get pregnant you have a duty to that child. Your life now becomes secondary to that child. If you continue to put yourself first "like smoking" you should consider adoption.

Who cares how "acceptable" smoking was 30 years ago. It's still a sorry ass excuse for WEAKNESS and selfishness. Women who smoked and smoke while pregnant are setting the stage for their entire child’s life. That stage says, "A cigarette is more important to me, your mother, than you are. Welcome to my world of stink and second hand smoke little baby. This is moma's fucking house. You don't have to like the air, you just have to breath it.."

End of story..

Rhino



Woah! Crap, I'm on my knees - first time I ever agreed to Rhino.

Thanks, guy. You are right. With every single word. I fully agree.:o
:)

dudeist skydiver # 3105

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Read what I wrote again, not once did I agree with smoking while pregnant or with abortion. I simply stated what is our laws in our society. If your wife wanted an abortion, you could not stop her. You and any other man has NO right to dictate what a woman does with her body. Does that make it right? In my opinion NO it doesnt but by our laws in this country that is what it boils down to.

I do not believe in abortion for any reasons whats so ever, not for rape, or incest, or even if the mothers life may be in danger. I just simply believe in it. I do not however look down and degrade people because they have different beliefs then me. Which is what you often times do, whats funny is this time we dont disagree and your still being rude.
Sudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this
Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this

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Your life now becomes secondary to that child.



Ya think?

When you can start carrying a child in your belly for 9 months, you can make that assertion...for yourself alone.

You don't get to decide for any woman that her life is less valuable than that of the fetus she carries.

rl
If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

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>You get pregnant you have a duty to that child.

I agree there but -

>Your life now becomes secondary to that child.

As a child depends upon a live and healthy mother to bring it to term and nurse it, it behooves a mother to keep herself well AND see to her baby's well-being. A woman who surrenders her entire life in service of the child not only ends up not a very healthy person, she will tend to do a poor job of raising the child; children learn what they see, not what you tell them to do.

But that's sort of a sidetrack. Smoking harms both the mother and the child, and thus is doubly bad during pregnancy. Plus which the "it's my body, leave me alone!" angle doesn't quite work any more.

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but in reality it continues to be the woman's right to smoke or not smoke (whichever she chooses) even when she is pregnant.



Only in a pathetic woman's reality. A REAL woman doesn't do that.. A REAL mother doesn't do that..



Well, real women and real mothers do that every day. I don't think it's the right choice for them to make, but it is the woman's decision to make nonetheless.

It's harmful to the child, no doubt. Even though MOST children born to mothers who smoke during pregnancy do just fine, the incidence of fetal death is definitely higher in this population.

It's a bad choice, but it's important, in my mind, to acknowledge that nobody else has the right to make these decisions for a woman because she is pregnant.

linz
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A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

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Actually, in an adult women, she has the SOLE right to what she does with her body. Granted I am against abortion but lets face the truth, its her body and she is the one who still can legally do with it what she wants.



Maybe so. But the child’s body is not her body. The child is a separate being all together.



actually not for QUITE some time in the pregnancy.. until then it is simply a lump of dying cells without its host...

but dont let the basic biological facts interfere with your "some of that was my sperm! damnit!" rant its very entertaining... you are completely mistaken about your role in the reproductive processes but entertaining non the less....
____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

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Actually, in an adult women, she has the SOLE right to what she does with her body. Granted I am against abortion but lets face the truth, its her body and she is the one who still can legally do with it what she wants.



Maybe so. But the child’s body is not her body. The child is a separate being all together.



actually not for QUITE some time in the pregnancy.. until then it is simply a lump of dying cells without its host...

but dont let the basic biological facts interfere with your "some of that was my sperm! damnit!" rant its very entertaining... you are completely mistaken about your role in the reproductive processes but entertaining non the less....



I think the fact that the foetus is unable to think/survive on its own is irrelevant.

As for the "its my sperm! damnit!" rant, I didnt notice it. I think Rhino is argueing the babys case not the fathers.

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I just saw a heavily pregnant woman smoking while i was out at the shops and it made me angry - i feel sorry for the child, they are disadvantaged even before they have left the womb, poor sods.




Many of the people reading this right now are quite possibly the progeny of women who smoked while they were pregnant. Not sure if my mom did or didn't, but I think she did. And I don't think there's any way to really say whether I (or my three siblings) suffered measurable, discernible ill effects from it. We're all quite healthy, intelligent people with no deformities or deficiencies, etc.

Now, when I see anybody smoking, I just think they must not be too bright, if smoking is a decision they made for themselves. How smart can a person be if they actually choose to engage in a habit that:
- stinks disgustingly
- costs a lot of money
- damages one's health?


-
-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

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Smoking harms both the mother and the child, and thus is doubly bad during pregnancy. Plus which the "it's my body, leave me alone!" angle doesn't quite work any more.



It works as long as you're "Pro-choice",doesn't it?



No. Not really.

For me, there are two issues: the first is that when a woman becomes pregnant, she has a personal responsibility to the child she carries, if she chooses to carry the child at all.

The second is that no one has the right to decide for another how they should live. Each of us has quite enough to do managing our own lives without micromanaging the life of another person.

Those two ideas keep getting tangled up in this thread when certain people make controlling statements about what they will and will not allow others to do.

rl
If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

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***Now, when I see anybody smoking, I just think they must not be too bright, if smoking is a decision they made for themselves. How smart can a person be if they actually choose to engage in a habit that:

- stinks disgustingly - Like you do when it goes a bit tits up on a jump? Besides can't smell you in cyberspace, you might have a very pungent aroma that offends others.;)

- costs a lot of money - Ummm, is'nt skydiving expensive unless you have a sexual favours deal going on with your CCI?

- damages one's health? All those beer fines can't help one's liver can it? And I bet you are right up front of que bumming off the newbie!:P

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You don't get to decide for any woman that her life is less valuable than that of the fetus she carries.



Disturbing and heartening in the same line. But at least very honest in the stance.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

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Why is that? Its the medical term for a baby while it is in the mothers womb. MANY people do not believe the baby is a baby until it is free of its mothers umbilical cord hence why it is legal to kill one by abortion. So does that mean they all shouldnt be mothers? If the were the case , we would have a much lower population with less chances for our specis to continue. Being a mother does not correlate with terms used to describe a child while in the womb.

Our laws dictate that it is not a seperate life until it is seperate from us. No its not right, and to me it is a life lost but you have no right to tell someone they dont deserve to be a mother because she calls a baby a fetus. Its a scientific term.
Sudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this
Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this

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fetus she carries



Anyone who refers to a baby this way shouldn't be a mother.



I wouldn't let a choice in semantics drive an opinion on someone on an issue this deep (motherhood). For all you know, RL could be a doctor that just likes to be precise. In that case, your inference would be very unfair and a PA just as bad as anything you hear daily from those select few that are allowed to get away with it all the time.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

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fetus she carries



Anyone who refers to a baby this way shouldn't be a mother.



Well, too bad.

Because I am a mother, and I became a mother against some pretty overwhelming odds.

So, you can make all the judgments that you like, but my own experience is that those who feel the need to control everyone else do so because they have no self-control.

Further, I can tell you from my own experience, such people make singularly lousy parents.

My kid is okay, in spite of the fact that in your judgment, I shouldn't be a mother. I'm satisfied with the outcome. I hope that in 20 years, you'll be able to say the same.

rl
If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

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