ernokaikkonen 0 #26 February 1, 2006 QuoteMy problem with his statement is primarily that he says that the caricatures themselves contribute to an image of all muslims as militant islamists. This is blatantly wrong. The people acting all up about this, storming an EU office and threatening with bombs are the ones giving muslims a bad name. "Islam is a peaceful religion", "Most muslims just want to live in peaceful co-existence with everyone else". I see. We are seeing the whole muslim world boycotting everything from a whole country over 12 cartoons. People are burning Danish and Norwegian flags("Scandinavia, the great Satan!"). Danish military is getting threatened in Iraq. Bomb threats. Calling ambassadors home from Denmark. Islam just isn't willing to co-exist with people whose views differ from theirs. If anyone had been slightly persuaded to think that democratic western countries can live in peace with the Islamic world, that's all blown to hell now. You don't see fundamentalist christians getting all bent out of shape when someone publishes a cartoon depicting Jesus or God. QuoteMeanwhile in Brussels a young Muslim immigrant published a poster depicting the Virgin Mary with naked breasts. Though the picture has drawn some protest from Catholics (though not from Western embassies, nor from the bishops), this artist need not fear being murdered in the street. On the contrary, he is being subsidised by the Ministry for Culture.(http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/382) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peacefuljeffrey 0 #27 February 1, 2006 Quote"Islam is a peaceful religion", "Most muslims just want to live in peaceful co-existence with everyone else". I see. We are seeing the whole muslim world boycotting everything from a whole country over 12 cartoons. People are burning Danish and Norwegian flags("Scandinavia, the great Satan!"). Danish military is getting threatened in Iraq. Bomb threats. Calling ambassadors home from Denmark. Islam just isn't willing to co-exist with people whose views differ from theirs. If anyone had been slightly persuaded to think that democratic western countries can live in peace with the Islamic world, that's all blown to hell now. Some of us were never fooled in the first place. Western defenders of islam love to say, "It's just a few of the radical islamists making the problem seem like alll of islam is belligerent and unwilling to live in peace. Really it's just the tiny minority." Well, here are NATIONAL GOVERNMENTS demonstrating that same intransigence and belligerence. There is no mistaking it this time. Islam will not tolerate the freedom of ANYONE ELSE IN THE [I]WORLD[/I], even on the soil of other sovereign nations, to badmouth it or even just point out its flaws. --Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #28 February 1, 2006 I heard they'd stopped buying Danish bacon too!When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Faber 0 #29 February 1, 2006 QuoteI heard they'd stopped buying Danish bacon too! dont worry we can eat it our self. Atleast EU and USnow has standed up for our rights of fredom of speach.. Russia however first off says that they dont worry and that we help terroists(we didnt give out a guy to Russia as it wassnt sure he were a terroist).. The danish media found out that some of the danish muslims are telling one thing to the DK media and then the oppersit to arabic medias.. I dont hate muslims,i know a few of them all of them working hard and trying to live a "danish-muslim way"Thouse i welcome here as they want to intergrate and live as close to my culture as they can,but people living her as the 2.nd genneration not willing to lean or intergrate but like to complain all the time,they harm the rest more than good is.. Stay safe Stefan Faber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dolph 0 #30 February 1, 2006 That's pretty funny dude :D. We'll see where this goes. The Muslim community now wants a UN resolution forbidding basically defamation of religions. The EU has stepped in too, saying a boycott against Denmark is a boycott against the EU. This is gonna be interesting. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #31 February 1, 2006 I don't think the government of Denmark needs to apologize but here's how I feel: The newspaper that printed those cartoons showed very poor judgement & taste. That does NOT mean that the government should impose any restrictions/punishment on them. Now people are defending the newspaper saying, "Well, they had a right to print them!" Look, in a free society you have a RIGHT to do a LOT of things. Among ALL of those things you have a right to do, some of those things are good ideas, and some are bad ideas. doesn't mean the gov't should step in & punish you if you do the bad ideas. however, a bad idea is still a bad idea. And the best defense against those who would like to impose an overly-controlling government is to try do a little self-policing. Given the fact that Muslim culture has Islam in every aspect of life, & given the particular ideas Muslims have about visual depiction of the prophet, & given all the particular shit going on in the world right now, the newspaper should have VOLUNTARILY made a better judgement call there. again, not saying that it should be the gov't that steps in & does something about it. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sen.Blutarsky 0 #32 February 1, 2006 Should the Danish government subsidize an artist to depict the Virgin Mary topless or instead withhold funding because the artwork offends some religious people, who don’t have to look? Maplethorpe didn’t self-censor “Piss Christ,” again nobody was forced to view his sculpture. Nor in Denmark was any Muslim compelled to see the Mohammed cartoons and, in fact, I would bet that most Muslims refrained from looking at them. Why should they be offended? Censorship, including self-censorship, on grounds of poor taste and religious oversensitivity is a slippery slope on which Western media should not tread where the competing interest is free political speech. And there is no question that the cartoons reflected opinion about current political issues. Edited to add: According to your reasoning, the New York Times should not publish a cartoon depicting an Irish Pope sprouting a bomb from his Pope’s hat and wearing a crucifix made from crossed AK-47s in reference to the sectarian violence in Ireland. I feel this type of self-censorship would have serious negative implications for political expression in this country. Blutarsky 2008. No Prisoners! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #33 February 1, 2006 QuoteThe newspaper that printed those cartoons showed very poor judgement & taste. Screw the muslims if they can't comprehend free speech. They don't get to tell the rest of the world how to live. They can't even keep their own house in order. Check this out: "Newspapers across Europe have reprinted caricatures of the Prophet Muhammad to show support for a Danish paper whose cartoons have sparked Muslim outrage. Seven publications in France, Germany, the Netherlands, Italy and Spain all carried some of the drawings."Source: BBC News Ha! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #34 February 1, 2006 self-censorship is not censorship. it's like the Phelps people. They have a right to say all their hateful shit, and I'm not disputing that. But I personally still think they shouldn't do it. And if I were the owner of a newspaper & they wanted to spout their shit in an advertisement in my newspaper, I would exercise my judgement (& my right) & refuse to accept their business. no government censorship involved there. just plain old decent judgement. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sen.Blutarsky 0 #35 February 1, 2006 Muslims may feel bound by Islamic traditions but the non-Muslim citizens living in Western democracies are not so bound and they should not be. “Judgement,” as you put it, properly rests on Muslim shoulders not to subject Muslim sensibilities to things which are inconsistent with Islamic religious doctrine. The rest of us should not tolerate our political discourse being reduced to a lowest common denominator, whether it’s laid down by Falwell or a group of imams. Blutarsky 2008. No Prisoners! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dolph 0 #36 February 2, 2006 Speedracer, the issue of self censorship is the exact reason the caricatures were printed. The newspaper felt that there was a great deal of it and that it was threatening freedom of speech. There's a lot of debate (or has been) in Denmark about whether we're doing too little, just enough or too much "accomodation" of other cultures. In other words, if we let the values of other cultures override our own and to what degree. For a good number of Danes this is for various reasons a big deal. Which, I suppose, is illustrated by the fact that the vast majority of Danes do not feel an apology is warranted, even though the pictures may be degrading and blasphemous. And here's the kicker; like most countries, we have laws that are old, outdated and aren't being enforced. One such law is the blasphemy law. It basically states that anyone who publicly mocks or ridicules any of the legally established dogmas or god-worships can be punished with fines of jail by up to four months. So in theory they can take this whol deal to court. Of course the law is likely to be repealed. Any political party opposing that, given the current climate, risk losing a good deal of power. Very interesting all this. It's been long since I've been able to have free speech discussions with a broad range of people in "real life". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sneaky 0 #37 February 2, 2006 A nice video of some Danish SF ( Jaegerkorpset & Fromandkorpset ) and some other nice 'arty' people ........ and all done in time to be home for a nice cup of tea ... or a Gammeldansk http://wms1.jay.net/ftv/arc09/sof.wmv edited to add Watch closely for the dog whos bounding along absolutley gagging for a fight !!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rasmack 0 #38 February 2, 2006 This is escalating somewhat...HF #682, Team Dirty Sanchez #227 “I simply hate, detest, loathe, despise, and abhor redundancy.” - Not quite Oscar Wilde... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dolph 0 #39 February 2, 2006 Yup. Should we back down? Nope. They're threatening us. The Turkish government, a nation that wants to join the EU, is saying "this shows that freedom of the press *must* be restricted". I refuse to let the religion of others dictate how I should live my life. The caricatures were in bad taste. It was known they were gonna inflame a lot of people. It was to test self censorship - and tested it it has. What the outcome will be is not to say - our prime minister doesn't seem to want to budge. No matter that I think it's pretty dumb to publish such caricatures, I also think they were pretty funny. More importantly, it was done in the FREE DEMOCRATIC Denmark, and no religio-fascist from a tyrannical theocracy should decide whether we should be allowed to publish caricatures or just how our freedoms should be limited. People have rights. There just isn't a right to not be offended. At least not here. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rasmack 0 #40 February 2, 2006 Agreed. For once I even agree with our PM. He gave an interview on arab television (Al Arabiya) explaining why it was not in the government's power to influence the media. Polite, firm and to the point.HF #682, Team Dirty Sanchez #227 “I simply hate, detest, loathe, despise, and abhor redundancy.” - Not quite Oscar Wilde... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #41 February 2, 2006 QuoteThis is escalating somewhat... "In Paris, the daily newspaper France Soir fired its managing editor after it republished the caricatures"Well what do you know - France surrenders again."Muslims consider it sacrilegious to produce a likeness of the Prophet Mohammad"But they don't have any problem beheading people on live video tape and showing that to the world, or blowing up scores of innocent people with bombs."There should be a limit to press freedom"Yeah, and cut off the hands of thieves!"Palestinian gunmen shut the European Union office Thursday in Gaza City, writing on the door that the office would remain closed until the Europeans apologize to Muslims. the gunmen were threatening to kidnap European workers if the European Union did not apologize. "Well, well, what will the mighty EU do now? Bow down and kiss muslim ass, or grow some balls and tell these fuckers to mind their own business? Let's see: 1) Muslims immigrate to foreign countries. 2) Muslim immigrants demand that their new host country's adopt to Muslim principles, rather than the immigrants adopting to the new host country's principles. 3) Host country refuses to modify their laws for the Muslim immigrants. 4) Muslim immigrants threaten violence. Gee, I wonder what comes next? 5) Host countries kick Muslims out, and refuse to accept new Muslim immigrants. If the Muslims don't learn to get along with the rest of the world, there is going to be a lot of backlash come their way, and it won't be pretty. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
juanesky 0 #42 February 2, 2006 Gee for a moment I read it as lick some balls....;"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #43 February 2, 2006 QuoteThis is escalating somewhat... "CNN has chosen to not show the cartoons in respect for Islam out of fear of reprisal." Fixed it for them. Cheese Danish anyone? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #44 February 3, 2006 Quote"CNN has chosen to not show the cartoons in respect for Islam out of fear of reprisal." Fixed it for them. You got it. Just like they refused to report the truth from their pre-war Baghdad office, because they were afraid that Sadam Hussein would kick them out of the country. And that has to make you question virtually everything you see them report from hostile nations. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Frenchy68 0 #45 February 3, 2006 QuoteQuoteThis is escalating somewhat... "CNN has chosen to not show the cartoons in respect for Islam out of fear of reprisal." Fixed it for them. Cheese Danish anyone? Well what do you know - Americans once again stay out of it. "For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ExAFO 0 #46 February 3, 2006 QuoteMuslims boycotting Denmark.. "In a related story, Denmark is now the safest country in the world..."Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #47 February 3, 2006 It makes me curious - have any American papers or mags reprinted the cartoons? My quick Google search didn't turn up any. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterblaster72 0 #48 February 3, 2006 The government of Denmark should apologize to muslims by offering free Elephant Malt Liquor and a Kobenhavner Schnitzel to every mosque in the country. Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sen.Blutarsky 0 #49 February 3, 2006 QuoteIt makes me curious - have any American papers or mags reprinted the cartoons? My quick Google search didn't turn up any. Nope. We only helped foment this news “event” in preparation for our imminent military strikes on Iran. Once they were on board with our plan, the European allies got assigned the dirty political conditioning work. Which I believe will cost them much less than the price in terms of lives and dollars we Americans may be about to pay for actively dismantling the “Islamic Bomb” program. Of course, shouldering the military heavy lifting is considerably more lucrative for industry, so in one sense we should be okay … Blutarsky 2008. No Prisoners! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ExAFO 0 #50 February 3, 2006 QuoteIt makes me curious - have any American papers or mags reprinted the cartoons? My quick Google search didn't turn up any. Look it up on Wikipedia. It's there.Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
