Can someone tell me why you need to get drug tested for a non manual/dangerous job

[unformed 0]

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Would you really decriminalise crack?

I would decriminalize all "victimless" crimes, so yes. I believe that an individual has the unlimited right to control his own body. If you want to kill yourself, go for it.

What I would punish is crime against others. Relentlessly.

rl

Mj and only mj

You might be productive while high. Most of the smokers I know are absolutely worthless. Not all, but most.

It's why I don't like smoking with others anymore.

This ad space for sale.

[mnealtx 0]

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Hair tests can also tell if you WERE stoning up and just got straight for the interview....

That's easy to get around. Just go get a wax and go shave your head. And I am NOT about to let an employer have access to my pubes unless they're gonna give me a free blowjob FIRST.

Ok, so you refuse the test and you still don't get the job...

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Airman1270 0]

It's not about whether you use drugs. The fact that you're offended is enough to screen you out.

A bunch of years ago I was confronted with this crap. I hesitated because it's an offensive insult, etc. The guy gave me his card and said to think about it. I realized that it was becoming more difficult to avoid this treatment, and the salary wasn't half bad, so I called back that afternoon and said I'd do it. He seemed surprised to hear from me and cut the call short. Even though I agreed, I was dismissed because I hesitated.

A few years later I finally gave in and agreed to take the test at another company. The process was so damn demeaning. After filling out an intrusive form the nurse bimbo said "Empty your pockets." I said "NO!" This was too much. I took the cup and gave her the sample. She said "I can't process that." I said "Oh yes you can." and walked out.

Of course, I didn't get the job.

The company REALLY liked me. They wanted me to work for them. But they allowed their commitment to an expensive, insulting, intrusive policy to interfere with a business decision that would have benefitted them.

Who benefits from this policy?

It's nearly impossible to avoid this treatment, thanks to all the gutless wusses who agreed, back in the mid-1980's, to submit to this policy even though it was rarely imposed. These people had plenty of opportunity to refuse and find work elsewhere. But no, they were intimidated by the "something to hide" accusation and gave in. Back then, we could have nipped this thing early. But now it's too late. "Public safety" has been replaced with "It's our policy."

Of course, they're doing this for legal self-defense reasons. If you're one of these people who supports the premise that a company is responsible for the actions of its employees, you're part of the problem.

Cheers,
Jon S.

[christoofar 0]

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Ok, so you refuse the test and you still don't get the job...

Nah, I can get rid of all of my hair. And I mean *ALL* of it. Why cointanly I'll submit to a test!
If I was doing coke, I'd just wait 3-4 days and even your hair won't have traces of the drug after ya shave it all off. Pot of course leaves traces of all sorta crap everywhere. Ever walk into a pot smokers apartment even after they've been gone for a week? Still smells like it.

____________________________________________________________
I'm RICK JAMES! Fo shizzle.

[freethefly 6]

Whether I smoked or taken the Marinol, you would not have known that I had taken either. Look at the huge number of highly prolific people who do use and are very open about it. Carl Sagan (deceased), Willie Nelson, Keith Stroup (lawyer and founder of NORML), Tommy Chong, Louis Armstrong (deceased). Truth is, there are a huge number of people who smoke and are very secretive about it. I do know a huge number of people who smoke and if not for the knowledge that they do so, I would guess that they do not. These people are everyday people that work, paybills and taxes, raise families and do what any other law abiding person would do. The majority of people whom I know who smoke, do not use other drugs or drink alcohol. The people that I do know who drink are the people whom I have the least association with as they are the most obnoxous people and the most violent. Alcohol brings out the worst in people and should be outlawed.

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[freethefly 6]

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Are you suggesting pot users might be psychotic while high?

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I'd suggest that a self assessment of skills/performance while stoned might be skewed...

Oh yeah, like the Canadian sno-boarder who took a gold and then they called mj a performance enhancing drug when he tested positve?

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[christoofar 0]

There are FAR, FAR, FAR more functioning alchoholics operating the handles and levers of corporate America than there are potheads. You mix bipolar disorder and/or depression with this and you get a very unstable individual.

Of course, I'm sure at the office it's easier to keep yourself clean until quitting time, go drink and then go home and beat your wife and kids.

Employers don't care about alchoholism, if they did... they would try to find a way to test your liver before you applied for a job. The only way they would notice if you had a problem is if you had a DUI conviction while as an adult recently (and if your job doesn't require driving or you don't work for a insurance company, most employers will just ignore it).

____________________________________________________________
I'm RICK JAMES! Fo shizzle.

[unformed 0]

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There are FAR, FAR, FAR more functioning alchoholics operating the handles and levers of corporate America than there are potheads. You mix bipolar disorder and/or depression with this and you get a very unstable individual.

The reason for this isn't that pot causes more damage. It's just that alcohol isn't as dismotviating, or whatever the hell the right word is.

This ad space for sale.

[Nightingale 0]

I won't work for an employer who requires drug testing. I don't do drugs, but I consider a drug test a waste of my time and an invasion of my privacy. I would not, however, object to drug testing with a reason behind it other than "we test everybody". If I worked in a doctor's office and they had medication missing and wanted to test the whole staff, that's fine. They have a reason, and it's not a stupid one.

Also, there are many substances that cause a false positive, and the last thing I'd want documented in my employment history is a positive drug test because I ate a poppyseed bagel or took cough medicine. My cousin was fired from his job because he was taking cough medicine prescribed by his doctor, and tested positive for opiates. He had the prescription bottle with him to prove it, but they didn't care.

Recent estimates from the Journal of Analytic Toxicology showed error rates of 5 to 14% for initial drug testing. A recent study of 161 over the counter and prescription medications indicated that 65 of them can lead to false positives on drug tests (source: LA Times)

THC - Substances or Conditions which can cause false positives
Dronabinol (Marinol)
Ibuprofen; (Advil, Nuprin, Motrin, Excedrin IB etc)
Ketoprofen (Orudis KT)
Kidney infection (Kidney disease, diabetes) Liver Disease
Naproxen (Aleve)
Promethazine (Phenergan, Promethegan)
Riboflavin (B2, Hempseed Oil)

Amphetamines - Substances or Conditions which can cause false positives
Ephedrine, pseudoephedrine, propylephedrine, phenylephrine, or desoxyephedrine
(Nyquil, Contact, Sudafed, Allerest, Tavist-D, Dimetapp, etc)
Phenegan-D, Robitussin Cold and Flu, Vicks Nyquil
Over-the-counter diet aids with phenylpropanolamine (Dexatrim, Accutrim)
Over-the-counter nasal sprays (Vicks inhaler, Afrin)
Asthma medications (Marax, Bronkaid tablets, Primatine Tablets)
Prescription medications (Amfepramone, Cathne, Etafediabe, Morazone,phendimetrazine, phenmetrazine, benzphetamine, fenfluramine, dexfenfluramine,dexdenfluramine,Redux, mephentermine, Mesocarb, methoxyphenamine, phentermine,amineptine, Pholedrine, hydroymethamphetamine, Dexedrine, amifepramone, clobenzorex,fenproyorex, mefenorex, fenelylline, Didrex, dextroamphetamine, methphenidate, Ritalin,pemoline, Cylert, selegiline, Deprenyl, Eldepryl, Famprofazone) Kidney infection, kidney disease, Liver disease, diabetes

Opiates - Substances or Conditions which can cause false positives
Poppy Seeds
Tylenol with codeine
Most prescription pain medications
Cough suppressants with Dextromethorphan (DXM)
Nyquil
Kidney infection, Kidney Disease
Diabetes, Liver Disease

Ecstacy - Substances or Conditions which can cause false positives
Ephedrine, pseudoephedrine, propylephedrine, phenylephrine, or desoxyephedrine
(Nyquil, Contact, Sudafed, Allerest, Tavist-D, Dimetapp, etc)
Phenegan-D, Robitussin Cold and Flu, Vicks Nyquil
Over-the-counter diet aids with phenylpropanolamine (Dexatrim, Accutrim)
Over-the-counter nasal sprays (Vicks inhaler, Afrin)
Asthma medications (Marax, Bronkaid tablets, Primatine Tablets)
Prescription medications (Amfepramone, Cathne, Etafediabe, Morazone,phendimetrazine, phenmetrazine, benzphetamine, fenfluramine, dexfenfluramine, dexdenfluramine,Redux, mephentermine, Mesocarb, methoxyphenamine, phentermine, amineptine, Pholedrine, hydroymethamphetamine, Dexedrine, amifepramone, clobenzorex, fenproyorex, mefenorex, fenelylline, Didrex, dextroamphetamine, methphenidate, Ritalin, pemoline, Cylert, selegiline, Deprenyl, Eldepryl, Famprofazone) Kidney infection, kidney disease
Liver disease, diabetes

Cocaine - Substances or Conditions which can cause false positives
Kidney infection (kidney disease)
Liver infection (liver disease)
Diabetes
Amoxicillin

Benzodiazepine False Positives
Most prescription sleeping pills and anti-anxiety medication.

Barbiturate False Positives
Fiorinol, Donnatol, some sleeping pills, antiasthmatic preparations that contain phenobarbitol, Dilantin.

LSD False Positives
Migraine medication: egotamine, Ergostat, Cafergot, Wigraine, Imitrex. Hydergine, bromocription, methysergiside, lisuride, lysergol, Artane, triprolidine, amitriptyline (Elavil), dicyclomine (Bentyl), antinausea medications that contain promethazine: Phenergan, Promethegan.

[freethefly 6]

My own father was one of them. He drinks more than a case of beer every night. His job (now retired, he is also retired from the Navy, 1972 with 22 years service) with the St. Louis Post Dispatch payed over $100,000. a year. His bonuses per year payed just as much. He never missed a day of work and was highly praised for his abilities. Yet at the same time he is not a pleasure to be around and the same goes for his drinking buddies. All of them are assholes. The same, for the most, cannot be said for pot smokers. I much rather be around smokers than drinkers.

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[lawrocket 3]

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Truth is a large portion of the work force smoke weed and are highly productive people.

Correct.

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My last factory job it was appearant who were the least productive yet no one was dropping random breath testing.

Also correct. There are lazy sacks who don't so any drugs. They should be fired.

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I myself would take several onehits in the morning to bring my appetite up, eat a huge breakfast and head to work. At no time did my use of mj ever affect my performance.

That may be great for you. But I can generally tell when I'm dealing with someone under the influence of something. Do you do that before skydiving? IF not, why not? Might it affect your performance?

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The same could not be said for those who would go home at the end of the day and drink beer or whatever

I disagree. Most people can go home at night and have a couple of beers and be just fine. I have yet to have a hung over employee. You are now guilty of lumping all drinkers together unfairly.

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All the while one could see the drinkers who were sluggish throughout the day.

I usually have a beer at night. My wife has bever seen me drunk, because "having one or two beers" is having "one or two beers." Beer doesn't account for my sluggishness. My 17-month-old does.

It is a reality - and a reality that is probably not based on "reality" - that pot smoking causes sluggishness, etc. IT impairs judgment, as does alcohol. It has a certain effect on the brain. If it didn't, why would you use it?

I'd agree that alcohol is far more costly to society. I won't accept a drunk employee. I'd send the person home.

But anyone under the influence of a mind altering chemical (except for antidepressants, ADHD meds, etc.) would definitely cause suspicion with me.

It's just the truth, and I won't bs you.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[PLFXpert 0]

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I would decriminalize all "victimless" crimes, so yes. I believe that an individual has the unlimited right to control his own body. If you want to kill yourself, go for it.

What I would punish is crime against others. Relentlessly.

What she said!

Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back.

[freethefly 6]

Responsiability!!!! You are right about having a few beers and being fine and the same goes for smoking or any drug. On days that I am going to jump I wait untill late in the day if I do take a hit in the morning to bring my appetitie up, otherwise I just do not eat the entire day. I haven't smoked any pot in more than 3 months and it shows in the amount of weight that I have lost due to no appetite. Marinol, for the most proves to be worthless as it's affect is highly unpredictable as to when it will take effect. I would not take Marinol on days that I am going to jump. Not safe for me, not safe for you. I am appalled to the number of jumpers and tamdemn people who drink into the wee hours and then gear up in the morning. Not safe for me and safe for anyone, yet it is overlooked that they are a danger to everyone. It is all about personal responsiability and this is the message that NORML is trying to get across. Actually, I have no problem with a person wishing to poison their liver, I do however have a problem with alcohol being so accepted at dropzones. For the record, I leave when the drinking begains as I am an recovering alcoholic and have had major problems because of drinking. I have never had a problem with weed. I do not sit for hours on end smoking it. Do not get belligerant when smoking. Never been in a fight when smoking. Have never missed work because of it. It comes down to a person being responsiable. A study, I recently read, shows that fatigue also accouts for a large number of mishaps in the work force. My last factory job, in my area, I was a welder, we worked from 3am to 3pm as there was 2 shifts for welding. At one time we worked this way 7 days a week. Everyone in the area were sluggish. When a mishap did occure it was mostly due to the hours worked and add in the hours after work when one has to take care of off hours business you operated on less than 4-5 hours sleep. So it is not just alcohol or drugs that account for work place mishaps it is also the companies themselves whom require employees to work long grueling hours than take care of personal business after. To many variables to just point a finger at alcohol and drugs.

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[SpeedRacer 1]

Those so-called "Detox" kits do not detox you.

They're just diuretics that temporarily make your urine more dilute. so that hopefully any drug metabolites will be below the limit of detection. But they do not clean you out in anyway.

Speed Racer
--------------------------------------------------

[RhondaLea 3]

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Those so-called "Detox" kits do not detox you.

They're just diuretics that temporarily make your urine more dilute. so that hopefully any drug metabolites will be below the limit of detection. But they do not clean you out in anyway.

Unfortunately, the kit and the lead time he had did the job, and the bastard escaped unscathed.

rl

If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

[Nightingale 0]

Many anti-depressants can cause false positive results on drug tests. If an employee of yours tests positive for amphetamines, are you going to pay for a more expensive test to determine whether it's illegal drugs or something like Wellbutrin? Or will you just take their word when they show you the prescription bottle?

What if they don't want you to know that they're on an anti-depressant? Drug test false positives sometimes force employees to reveal medical issues they'd rather keep to themselves, such as depression or HIV, since when you take a drug test, you usually have to disclose all medications you're taking. I wonder how many people would be willing to be fired rather than reveal medical information they consider personal and private?

[RhondaLea 3]

No one has the right to be impaired on an employer's time.

[christoofar 0]

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Many anti-depressants can cause false positive results on drug tests. If an employee of yours tests positive for amphetamines, are you going to pay for a more expensive test to determine whether it's illegal drugs or something like Wellbutrin? Or will you just take their word when they show you the prescription bottle?

What if they don't want you to know that they're on an anti-depressant? Drug test false positives sometimes force employees to reveal medical issues they'd rather keep to themselves, such as depression or HIV, since when you take a drug test, you usually have to disclose all medications you're taking. I wonder how many people would be willing to be fired rather than reveal medical information they consider personal and private?

Usually you only have to report this to the company that is doing the lab work, NOT the employer.

HIPAA forbids the lab from telling your employer you are HIV positive.

If you are HIV positive, you have applied and gotten a job, and found out that HR has let people know about your status and you haven't done anything that would indicate to anyone you work for that you are HIV, then you have a wonderful civil lawsuit on your hands.

The employer isn't even allowed to know the medications you are taking if they didn't ask you. The lab asked you, not the employer. The information you give to to the lab is protected under Tier I of HIPPA (Health Information Privacy and Portability Act).

You should also RUN, not walk, over to HHS's Office of Civil Rights and file a civil complaint. Provide the name and address of the employer, and the name and address of the lab which did the drug screening work.

HHS will not reveal your identity to the employer until after they have completed an investigation, and you CANNOT be fired if the HHS takes action against either the lab or your employer.

____________________________________________________________
I'm RICK JAMES! Fo shizzle.

[billvon 2,395]

>No one has the right to be impaired on an employer's time.

And no one has the right to be _straight_ on an employer's time, because once someone is paying you to do something you pretty much have to do it how they want it, when they want it and where they want it. (Well, to be more accurate, you can still do whatever you want, but they may well decide not to pay you if you do that.)

[RhondaLea 3]

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>No one has the right to be impaired on an employer's time.

And no one has the right to be _straight_ on an employer's time...

I think you killed the thread with that one.

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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I won't work for an employer who requires drug testing. I don't do drugs, but I consider a drug test a waste of my time and an invasion of my privacy. I would not, however, object to drug testing with a reason behind it other than "we test everybody".

Same here.

People's willingness to submit to intrusion, based on the weak, lame-ass argument that somehow it will improve or protect society, "make us safer," is something I find very troubling.

-

-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[freethefly 6]

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No one has the right to be impaired on an employer's time.

I hurt my back on the job and had to pee in a bottle. Smoking pot had nothing to do with my back injury. Lifting awkward, heavy refrigeration coils did. I failed the test. Got 1 week off even though I had marinol. Took it to the union, Got a weeks pay and back on the job. I was never "impaired", I take a medication that is legal in one form and sometimes the same thing only not in synthetic form by natural form, yet illegal. I did have to pee in the bottle once a week for 2 months even though they now knew that I had a prescription. They also learned that I was HIV even though most people that I worked with knew it. I am very open about it. Point is even though my system was through and through positive for THC I was no more impaired than the next guy. If I was it never hurt my job performance. I had a far better work record than the people in my area who did nothing. I did have the right to have THC in me. And sure I did feel good. I was always happy. The pain from my back was more managable than when they gave me the oxycontin and said you can work on these. Give me a break. When on the oxy I had no desire to work, I was depressed and it did little for the pain, it took more and more to manage the pain, yet I could not take off from work because of it. Company Dr. gave me the oxy and declared I was fit for work. I stopped taking the oxy and just smoked a bit of weed. THC does wonders and you don't have to get "stoned" to reap the benefits. I have no idea what your experiance is with mj. Mine goes back to 72 and I have yet to see anyone ruin their life on weed, fuck up royally on the job, hurt or kill anyone. Fact is, is that you most likely encounter a number of people each and every time you go out and would never know it. If you believe what you read and hear from the employer, take a look around your work place and see if what they are saying is true. If the people in the place you work at are so dangerous, there is more to than pot.

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[Airman1270 0]

...There are lazy sacks who don't so any drugs. They should be fired...
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

Perfect summation to the anti-testing argument. If someone is performing his job to the boss' standards, it doesn't matter what he may be doing on his own time. If he's not doing his job properly, the reason is irrelevant. The employer needs to focus the the performance and give the employee an opportunity to improve, or replace him. Whether the poor performance has to do with being stoned, hung over, or distracted by a personal situation really doesn't matter.

In another post I told of the time in the early 80's when I single-handedly operated my boss' deli so he could go home in the afternoon instead of working 15-hour days. I did all of the cleaning, stocking, served customers, trained new employees, took care of the money (without any temptation to steal), and secured the store after hours. During these years there's no way I would have passed a drug test.

I haven't spoken with him in nearly 20 years, but if he's still alive he's still telling people what a great employee I was. I don't know if he knew about the pot smoking, but if he did he didn't care. I was always sober on the job and performed excellent work.

Again, the reason they test is for legal self-defense reasons. Hey Law, if someone wants to bring a suit against a company because of the actions of an employee, will you take the case?

Cheers,
Jon

[BIGUN 1,051]

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I AM a cokehead programmer.

See, now you're busted; not for being a cokehead, but for not being a programmer. Everyone knows that a programmer's drug of choice is Mountain Dew and Cheetos.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[GTAVercetti 0]

I am a programmer. While I enjoy a good Cheeto or two, I dislike the Mountain Dew. IF only they sold Jolt in the machines at work.

Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.