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Can someone tell me why you need to get drug tested for a non manual/dangerous job

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"Due Diligence" and Liability

It reduces your employers liability insurance if they do initial drug testing.

Of course, once you are hired, they don't want to catch you because then they would be responsible for putting you through expensive rehab.

If someone makes an expensive mistake while under the influence of anything, the employer may be liable.

Of course, all the tests are beaten routinely, which has spawned another industry.

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He had a bad feeling about it because people were asking him all night if he was okay, so he started drinking a lot of water, and then he picked up one of those detox kits at the health food store. Two days later, he got a call for the drug test. They tested 15 nurses because of what he had done, but he came up clean.

Drugs tests aren't all that cheap. It cost his employer money, it cost his co-workers time. But the worst of it was that for quite a few years (and maybe even now), he was hurting his patients by depriving them of medications they needed.

I object to drug tests on theoretical legal grounds, but as a practical matter, I think more employers should do them as a matter of course.

rl



You just detailed a FAILURE of drug tests to do EXACTLY what they are SUPPOSED to do -- they failed to detect that your boyfriend, the drug-addicted drug thief, was on drugs. At the same time, the drug tests cost the company's money, the employees' dignity, and subjected 15 other innocent employees to a witch hunt that failed to even find its witch. WTF are you saying now, that you think more employers should do this?

Not enough employers are wasting money and intruding into people's lives for zero gain, huh? :S

Should I maybe offer this opportunity for you to clarify what you meant? I strive to be fair...


-Jeffrey
-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

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thats the true irony of drug testing. You only catch the stoners.



exactly the problem... Drug testing does little to deter use and more to contribute to the use of 'harder', less detectable drugs and/or rampant alcoholism..

of course society and business seems to believe a legal raging alcoholic is a preferable result.



Which is the crux of it. Most responses I tend to see fall along the lines of, "it makes for unproductive workers" or "they are untrustworthy".

Usually people in favor of drug testing only fall back to the illegality of it when someone points out that an alcoholic is probably just as untrustworthy and unproductive than most casual drug users.

The illegal nature of drug use definitely does not seem to be the primary concern for drug testing. In my opinion.

Are their instances where drug testing should be done? Certainly. Every job? No.
Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.

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Why would some desk jockey need a drug test?



"Because if you're not doing anything wrong and have nothing to hide, you shouldn't mind." >:( :S

People have lost their grip on the notion that we should not have to live our lives suspected all the time -- by our government, by our employers -- and because SOME people don't care about the right to be left alone and treated as innocent, ALL of us end up subject to the things they don't object to.


-Jeffrey




(sounds paranoid now, but wonder if it will still sound paranoid 15 years from now...)


"I'm sorry, your position is too vital. We cannot hire someone in this position who skydives."

"You lie about your sexuality. How can you work for us if you aren't sure about who you are?"

"Please sign this consent agreement for us to review your family's medical history. This is required paperwork for enrollment with HealthCareChoice BlahBlahBlah of Pennsylvania."

Interviewer: "It says here your ex-wife was arrested in 2001 for _____" Applicant: "But, I divorced her in 2000!"

"I'm sorry, but we are going to have to let you go. We can't have someone working with us who goes to an adult bookstore."

Need I go on?

____________________________________________________________
I'm RICK JAMES! Fo shizzle.

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thats the true irony of drug testing. You only catch the stoners.



exactly the problem... Drug testing does little to deter use and more to contribute to the use of 'harder', less detectable drugs and/or rampant alcoholism..

of course society and business seems to believe a legal raging alcoholic is a preferable result.



Which is the crux of it. Most responses I tend to see fall along the lines of, "it makes for unproductive workers" or "they are untrustworthy".

Usually people in favor of drug testing only fall back to the illegality of it when someone points out that an alcoholic is probably just as untrustworthy and unproductive than most casual drug users.

The illegal nature of drug use definitely does not seem to be the primary concern for drug testing. In my opinion.

Are their instances where drug testing should be done? Certainly. Every job? No.



My last boss was an alchoholic, dude. And he's bipolar. I was the 6th person to quit after he started his last rampage. Of course, he's still working there, but he's running up a big bill with taking sick leave for hangovers all the time, and convincing enough people to quit so fast that work doesn't get done. Plus they can't afford to pay consulting fees to headshops anymore so now they're having to hire directly--which is a long... long... long process.

Too many well-connected people smoke cigars and drink... so the LAST thing you are gonna see is screening out of those habits before employment.

Cigarette smokers are an exception. You know have to smoke out in the rain, and soon enough you will lose your job if ya don't quit.

There's a way around all this, and it's called self-employed contracting. Ya just gotta put up with paying Estimate Tax and buying your own health insurance. :)

____________________________________________________________
I'm RICK JAMES! Fo shizzle.

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"need I go on?"

Considering most people have said that you don't have to work for those employers if you dont want to it would seem that you will regardless. ;)



It was rhetorical. :P I'll outlast that Celine Dion bitch. :D

____________________________________________________________
I'm RICK JAMES! Fo shizzle.

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Should I maybe offer this opportunity for you to clarify what you meant? I strive to be fair...



That was my answer to the question "can someone tell me why you need to get drug tested for a non manual/dangerous job"?

As I said, on certain theoretical legal grounds, I object to the idea of drug testing. As a practical matter, I think that frequent and random drug testing would solve a lot of problems in the workplace.

I'm not sure that pre-employment tests are worth what they cost.

As for the particular anecdote I related, the testing should have been immediate and on-site, not two days later at an independent facility. Then the son-of-a-bitch would've been caught dead to rights. As it was, he was working for an agency, and that just complicated everything.

rl

P.S. You strive for a spanking. :P

P.P.S. PJ, I'm not passionate on this subject.
If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

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"need I go on?"

Considering most people have said that you don't have to work for those employers if you dont want to it would seem that you will regardless. ;)




The big bullshit fallacy of your statement is the fact that these kinds of policies end up spreading to more and more and more and more and more of the good places to work. Eventually there will be only shit jobs for those who value their privacy and object to these bullshit, needless, ineffective intrusions.

-Jeffrey
-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

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Wah. Life's a bitch when the laws get enforced in innovative ways, eh?



Wrong. It just makes the smart people get more creative. Smart drugs users have never had a problem getting their high.

Getting ahead in life is about fronts. Having your job think you're a stand-up citizen who's the best and most dedicated worker, and then on weekends being able to outdrink and outsnort every motherfucker on the planet.
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A recent report shows that more than 15% of the american work force is drunk on the job. Of all the people I have worked with over the years, those who smoke weed have been the most productive over the methheads, cokeheads, drunks and even those who do none of the above. Drug testing presumes that you are guilty untill you pee in a bottle and prove otherwise. If a person smokes weed when at home it is no business of the work place. Would a person object if their employer demands that you cannot even drink alcohol as it does have detrimental health effects and cost greatly in medical insurance and make for sluggish workers. There are employers who fire workers just for smoking cigarettes. What if they demand that you stop skydiving as an accident could cost their insurance greatly. Not to mention time lost. I smoke mj for medical reasons as it helps to keep my weight up, although I have not smoked any in quite a few months and my loss of weight shows this. To what business is it to an employer if I am a A1 employee, never miss work an innovator on the job. I agree that those who do hard drugs can be an liability the same as the 15% who show up intoxicated. I have read a report that alcohol is the #1 cause for work place mishaps and time lost. This was shown to be true in factories as well as in an office and extends into the military, police force as well as into the legal field. So, why try and weed out the pot smokers and cokeheads when the main cause of poor work performance is alcohol? Drug testing is a muti dollar industry and now a lot of employers use the home testing kits. Just saying that it is right to test people because drugs are illegal doesn't make it right. Maybe they should have a breathalyzer at everyones work station and have everyone blow every thirty minutes to be sure that they are not taking a sip through the day.
"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

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Someone in need of a fix will do just about anything, and I'm not gonna be on the losing end of that scenario.



Strawman. 'Someone in need of a fix' describes 99.9% of recreational drug users as accurately as 'diseased alcoholic' describes social drinkers.

It is not only possible, but very common, to have a productive, efficient, creative, profitable employee who just happens to enjoy recreational drug use or who prefers cannibis to chamomile for a sleepytime treat.

And without their urine in a cup you would NEVER know unless they wanted you to.

nothing to see here

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Is in not an infringement on personal freedoms?



Nope. The employer can put whatever conditions they want on your employment. You don't have to like it, but if you want to work there, they can make you comply. You are free to work elsewhere if you like and they are free not to employ you if they like.



I think that's a complete infringement on my rights. Who are they to say what i can and can't do when i'm not on the clock so long as it doesn't affect my performance at work?

By your logic, if i worked in a state that prohibited homosexual relations back in the day, i could be forbidden from applying somewhere because of what i wanted to do in the privacy of my own home. Even the army allows gay people now, something that even 10 years ago was abhored.

Whatever happened to power to the people?

"Skydiving is a door"
Happythoughts

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personal freedom doesn't happen to include illegal activities...



Why not? One aspect of the very definition of being "personally free" is to be able to go sit on a hill and smoke a bong on the weekend i would have thought.

"Skydiving is a door"
Happythoughts

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I dunno. I once dated a nurse with a drug problem.

He would steal his patients meds--valium, xanax, various pain pills. When he got his hands on oxycontin, he would break it down and use a needle.

Finally, he got really fucked up one night (sucked out a fentanyl pre-surgical patch) and stole a bottle of...damn, I can't remember. Percoset, maybe? About 20 of 'em. He came home with only a few left.

He had a bad feeling about it because people were asking him all night if he was okay, so he started drinking a lot of water, and then he picked up one of those detox kits at the health food store. Two days later, he got a call for the drug test. They tested 15 nurses because of what he had done, but he came up clean.

Drugs tests aren't all that cheap. It cost his employer money, it cost his co-workers time. But the worst of it was that for quite a few years (and maybe even now), he was hurting his patients by depriving them of medications they needed.

I object to drug tests on theoretical legal grounds, but as a practical matter, I think more employers should do them as a matter of course.

rl



Thanks for the story. I agree, when someone is in a position of authority for the care and well being of people, test them. Nurses, doctors, pilots, subway and bus drivers, school teachers etc. However, why would someone care whether a computer programmer or stockbroker or fishmonger is high? If that person performs their job inline with the performance targets they have been set - or exceeds them - whats the big deal?

The more i read here, the more i think it's down to insurance and payout related issues.

"Skydiving is a door"
Happythoughts

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Why would some desk jockey need a drug test? Why on earth would what i do in my own personal time and space stop me getting a job i am more than capable of achieving brilliantly at?



Reliability? Moral Character? Liability spawned from drug-fueled incompetence?



From the research i have done, many computer programmers have managed to do the work they have and met their deadlines due to chemical enhancement, speed, coke or whatever - to allow them to work hour after hour to get projects delivered in very short timescales.

Who is an employer to set standards for how i should live my life, morally or otherwise, when i'm not on the clock?

Liabailty? Well the more i read, the more this whole thing seems to be aimed at an ability to not be liable to massive payouts to some client/customer/employee filing a case against the employer as a result of some drug related negligence issue.

"Skydiving is a door"
Happythoughts

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Why would some desk jockey need a drug test?



"Because if you're not doing anything wrong and have nothing to hide, you shouldn't mind." >:( :S

People have lost their grip on the notion that we should not have to live our lives suspected all the time -- by our government, by our employers -- and because SOME people don't care about the right to be left alone and treated as innocent, ALL of us end up subject to the things they don't object to.


-Jeffrey



What's wrong with me smoking weed in the privacy of my own home if it doesn't affect my ability to do my job successfully?

"Skydiving is a door"
Happythoughts

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Wah. Life's a bitch when the laws get enforced in innovative ways, eh?



Not really because i don't do drugs. If i did though, and i worked as a stockbroker and liked to smoke a joint at night, i would see them testing me as an infringement on my personal liberty.

"Skydiving is a door"
Happythoughts

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"Due Diligence" and Liability

It reduces your employers liability insurance if they do initial drug testing.

Of course, once you are hired, they don't want to catch you because then they would be responsible for putting you through expensive rehab.

If someone makes an expensive mistake while under the influence of anything, the employer may be liable.

Of course, all the tests are beaten routinely, which has spawned another industry.



I thought as much, having read through some of the other posts that are mentioning this.

I guess this is why we see it much more in the US where is seems everyone is tested, compared to Europe, where we see much less in the way of liability cases and that sort of thing.

"Skydiving is a door"
Happythoughts

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Why would some desk jockey need a drug test?



"Because if you're not doing anything wrong and have nothing to hide, you shouldn't mind." >:( :S

People have lost their grip on the notion that we should not have to live our lives suspected all the time -- by our government, by our employers -- and because SOME people don't care about the right to be left alone and treated as innocent, ALL of us end up subject to the things they don't object to.


-Jeffrey



What's wrong with me smoking weed in the privacy of my own home if it doesn't affect my ability to do my job successfully?




Read what I wrote, again. I was not siding with those who would put such restrictions on you.

-
-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

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Why would some desk jockey need a drug test?



"Because if you're not doing anything wrong and have nothing to hide, you shouldn't mind." >:( :S

People have lost their grip on the notion that we should not have to live our lives suspected all the time -- by our government, by our employers -- and because SOME people don't care about the right to be left alone and treated as innocent, ALL of us end up subject to the things they don't object to.


-Jeffrey



What's wrong with me smoking weed in the privacy of my own home if it doesn't affect my ability to do my job successfully?




Read what I wrote, again. I was not siding with those who would put such restrictions on you.

-



Oops!:$
Apologies for the misunderstanding!

"Skydiving is a door"
Happythoughts

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