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Employers Asking For Credit Checks

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Unless you got a rich daddy or your parents slaved for 20 years to build up a warchest for you, as a student you can really be fucked by this, because your scores go down by over 100 points once you get these massive student loans. Refi them, and your score goes down again.



I am the first to admit I don't know an awful lot about credit scores. But I took out over $50,000 in loans for graduate school, and I have refinanced them (or at least put them into consolidation programs). Yet my credit score is rock-solid, good enough to get very favorable terms when I took out a mortgage three years ago.

Why is it rock solid? Because I have managed my finances and credit responsibly and I have kept an eye on my credit reports to ensure that no erroneous information ends up on there.

I don't necessarily *like* that employers want to do credit checks on me, but I understand the need to do it. As others have said, privacy in this day and age is really an illusion, anyway.

Every employer I've worked with that wants to do a credit check has waited to do it until *after* an offer of employment was made.



I disagree. Judge Alito and Roberts, as well as Ginsberg and O'Conner have all reaffirmed that we have a fundamental right to privacy. This right has also been reaffirmed in at least 3 seperate Supreme Court cases within the last 5 years, the most famous of which involved a case of sodomy in Texas.

Those who are fearful will trade freedom for security, and will get neither.

I have been doing a lot of research and found out if you use American Express, PI and data warehouse companies can actually get a hold of your entire purchase history with AMEX---which has caused quite a stir. Employers can get a hold of this information through ChoicePoint. So not only is your credit score wide open, do you also want employers to know what purchases you make?

Should employers also have the right to know what library books you read and magazines you subscribe to, or websites you visit on your own time?

Should employers also have the right to do genetic testing to find out all the predespositions you have?

Anyone can justify these questions positively for employers for the sake of security. But really, did we all vote for that?

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I'm RICK JAMES! Fo shizzle.

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Unless you got a rich daddy or your parents slaved for 20 years to build up a warchest for you, as a student you can really be fucked by this, because your scores go down by over 100 points once you get these massive student loans. Refi them, and your score goes down again.



So you are saying everyone who graduates from college has bad credit unless they have rich parents? I don't think so.

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If taken to its full conclusion, this will eventually stretch into your love life. You wouldn't DARE marry someone who has problems on their report, because this will eventually impact YOU and could prevent you from getting a job or a promotion, or at least make it more difficult.



Did you know the nunber one reason people divorce is because of money? As cold as I'm sure this may sound...I wouldn't marry anyone who I didn't think could handle finances and getting a credit report isn't out of the question either.



Make sure the credit check clears before goin' on the first date. :P

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I'm RICK JAMES! Fo shizzle.

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Stop worrying about employers. I can find out exactly the same info about you.

The issue here is the lack of privacy in general, not your credit report for a new job.

Most people would shit if they understood exactly how much of their life was accessible by anyone with the know-how and motivation.

or how shitty most of the electronic data security is for those records that aren't publicly protected.

TV's got them images, TV's got them all, nothing's shocking.

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Stop worrying about employers. I can find out exactly the same info about you.

The issue here is the lack of privacy in general, not your credit report for a new job.

Most people would shit if they understood exactly how much of their life was accessible by anyone with the know-how and motivation.

or how shitty most of the electronic data security is for those records that aren't publicly protected.



I already know what ChoicePoint collects. The last two places I worked at pulled records from there. Employers are second to government in terms of the amount of influence they wield over peoples' lives.

-Second Class Citizen

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I wasnt referring to only choicepoint.

There are many other places to collect data about people.

Employers have usually been the primary or secondary influence on the average serf's life.

Remember Total Information Awareness?

It's amazing what happens when you rebrand it as MATRIX and install it at the statelevel - oh, and we've got this new feature: It allows you to hook up with any other MATRIX installation on the planet. :S:S

if you felt you had any privacy anywhere you were wrong.

It's still as easy as not working for companies who's attitudes you dont like.

TV's got them images, TV's got them all, nothing's shocking.

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Um...No

Personal finances are very much a sign of a persons ability to excercise good judgement.

There is a pretty decent correlation between a persons ability to manage money and a persons ability to manage other aspects of life.

Just like everything else, there are exceptions, and everyone shoud be given the ability to explain WHY they have bad credit.

(divorce, illness, loss of job, death in the family etc are good reasons. I bought a new 'vette and a big house and couldnt' afford the hookers and the coke are not)

I know not everyone with bad credit is irresponsible, but the odds are in general against it.



Agreed. Employers look at the entire package an employee presents and make their choices based on who is the best candidate. A credit report is just one component of the package.

If an employer has 2 equally experienced and credentialed candidates and one has shown via their credit history a lifetime of financial responsibility and the other has a series of late payments, court judgements or IRS leins, it's pretty obvious who gets the job. It doesn't mean the person with the spotty credit history can't do the job or is dishonest. It just means the person with the good credit history has proven their ability to accept and handle responsibility.



Meh. Outside of background checks, I remember a wave of "paper MSCEs" and "paper MSCDs" in the late 1990s. I worked alongside some real idiots who had their BS or BBA and their MSCD who didn't know flip about design patterns, UML, or any other basic fundamentals about object oriented programming. But to HR, these were the best qualified candidates. Granted, I did get my MSCD but I have left it off my resume because I've spoken with too many hiring managers who have been burned by employees they placed too much trust with that had this certification.

I busted out of that pigeon hole by developing a huge portfolio of references, contacts, and project work and code samples that have kept me competitve. Not only can I write good software that's low on defects, I have proven it. No credit check or college degree or paper cert is going to prove you are qualified to design large systems. You can only prove it by doing the work.

Oh, and if I remember correctly: Bill Gates has an arrest record, and never completed his college degree, and I'm certain his credit was shit circa 1980. Where is he now?

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I wasnt referring to only choicepoint.

There are many other places to collect data about people.

Employers have usually been the primary or secondary influence on the average serf's life.

Remember Total Information Awareness?

It's amazing what happens when you rebrand it as MATRIX and install it at the statelevel - oh, and we've got this new feature: It allows you to hook up with any other MATRIX installation on the planet. :S:S

if you felt you had any privacy anywhere you were wrong.

It's still as easy as not working for companies who's attitudes you dont like.



*sigh*. Yeah.

Remember last year ChoicePoint was burned because a fake vendor signed up and started downloading records willy nilly from their system.

Here's ChoicePoints Client Verification process: Did the check clear? == WELCOME ABOARD!

For now I am saying NO to the consumer report thing, unless they happen to use TransUnion which happens to not have my loans on file. BTW, MVR/CLUE report doesn't require written authorization by you to be pulled.

I wonder if I can use my LLP TaxID to sign up with any of the data gathering firms...

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stop applying for jobs at crap companies then!

If you're that good you'll have work come find you.

At least, that's been my experience in the tech arena.



I get harassed by recruiters all the time. This incident only happened after I dealt with a crap HR department, the company is actually really good to work for and I knew the hiring manager. He was really excited about me.

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...Bad credit most certainly is an indication someone is likely to do something illegal...

...Someone who is unable to handle their own finanaces is more likely to steal from a company...
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

I don't see the connection. People who will steal are people who will steal, period.

I have committed minor legal/moral violations, such as small-scale traffic violations, dope smoking, sleeping with my girlfriends, etc. But I have never harmed anyone or taken their stuff.

Despite a near-perfect credit history, I got into trouble many years ago and it took awhile to clear up the mess. Even so, it never occurred to me to steal from my boss or anyone else.

I believe a solid employment history and a clean criminal record speaks far more to what a potential employer can expect than does a blemish in one's personal life.

Cheers,
Jon

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There are ways to minimize data leak and obfuscate other areas but it's really just easier to deal in cash ;)

I was aware of choicepoint at the time and I've worked with both the FBI and Secret Service on several other incidents in the past.

The most major issue I see currently regarding data privacy is the lack of controls and accountability. The picture is far bleaker than anyone on the street could imagine from an electronic point of view. The trouble is simply that the issues are so technical that they defy quick translation into syntax that can be grasped and acted on by the public and politicians.

Very much in the same way that the Microsoft anti-trust debate was about software rather than their real strength: the bios and sales contracts to hardware vendors.

TV's got them images, TV's got them all, nothing's shocking.

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There are ways to minimize data leak and obfuscate other areas but it's really just easier to deal in cash ;)

I was aware of choicepoint at the time and I've worked with both the FBI and Secret Service on several other incidents in the past.

The most major issue I see currently regarding data privacy is the lack of controls and accountability. The picture is far bleaker than anyone on the street could imagine from an electronic point of view. The trouble is simply that the issues are so technical that they defy quick translation into syntax that can be grasped and acted on by the public and politicians.

Very much in the same way that the Microsoft anti-trust debate was about software rather than their real strength: the bios and sales contracts to hardware vendors.



People would be much more aware about it if I got a hold of an employer's access to their systems and started posting everybody's business in public. I would be certain the quaitas would come VERY fast.

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That's been done to no avail.

To the average man in the street they hear 'data leak' and it means nothing. They hear 'personal information' and think 'my name and address, so what?' or 'someone elses stuff? so what?'.

Most people do not realize that the real world is purely data driven and that the data is all electronic. even if they did they would not truly understand the impact that has on their life. Sure, if they watch movies they may see the cool funny stuff, but they can't and won't grasp how identity theft feels until it happens to them. It's like the mental leap between thinking 'wow, having your house broken into must suck' to actually having it occur and suddenly understanding the true impact it can have (as far as violation of personal space, trust being broken and illusions of privacy shattered).

The meds are not working well today. :|

TV's got them images, TV's got them all, nothing's shocking.

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Unless you got a rich daddy or your parents slaved for 20 years to build up a warchest for you, as a student you can really be fucked by this, because your scores go down by over 100 points once you get these massive student loans. Refi them, and your score goes down again.



Ayy, yi, yi. I don't know where to start. I actually gave speeches in college to fellow students how to graduate w/ less or no debt and good credit.

Rich daddy? Yes, admittedly. Built me up a warchest? Hell no. I paid in full on my own for my first car (among all other things) and was the only damn Geo Metro among my BMW-driving friends.

I'm 25. Credit at graduation (that was, indeed, pulled for my first job) mid-score 724. Credit now, after buying house, and everything else, 785. Ordinarily I would NOT share that information, but I'm proud of it and feel it's necessary to prove my point here.

I was originally siding with you, sort-of, regarding the requirement of a credit-check due to the many variables that can be involved and misunderstood by its viewers.

But, had to put the smack-down on you there.[:/]
Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back.

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I agree.

I have been burgled, 4 years ago (gee I wonder if that's also on my background report somewhere).

HIPAA was passed into law in 1996 because enough people were being violated, to the point it created a giant stir. This had to do with insurance company actuaries getting a hold of physician records (not just the claims sent, but the entire files) and profiling patients. When the media started talking about genetic profiling of patients prior to enrollment and health plans were actually spending R&D money to figure out how to collect this information, the law was accellerated into passage (thanks AARP!).

Enough seniors were scared that AARP, the ACLU and doctors nationwide railroaded HIPAA into being and extended the Privacy Act for it. I worked on HIPAA Tier II transactions for almost 2 years. Believe you me, companies are deathly afriad of accidentally releasing health information because the penalties are extremely stiff--and they have been levied. HIPAA is also criminal law, not civil tort, so violations involve jailtime, civil money penalties and the worst: diseligibility from the Medicare program (which would kill any health provider's business). HIPAA has teeth, and violators have already been convicted.

Too bad this only covers health. But with most respects, your personal health records are indeed safe, except in the issue of overseas transcription services.

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...Bad credit most certainly is an indication someone is likely to do something illegal...

...Someone who is unable to handle their own finanaces is more likely to steal from a company...
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

I don't see the connection. People who will steal are people who will steal, period.

I have committed minor legal/moral violations, such as small-scale traffic violations, dope smoking, sleeping with my girlfriends, etc. But I have never harmed anyone or taken their stuff.

Despite a near-perfect credit history, I got into trouble many years ago and it took awhile to clear up the mess. Even so, it never occurred to me to steal from my boss or anyone else.

I believe a solid employment history and a clean criminal record speaks far more to what a potential employer can expect than does a blemish in one's personal life.

Cheers,
Jon



People who are in dire financial difficulties are more likely to steal than those who are not. A father who has a sick child in need of medication is more likely to steal than on who has a healthy child. Someone with a drug problem is more likely to steal than someone without a drug problem.

It's true some steal for the thrill and thats something a criminal check may discover. Did you know that almost 90% of company theft comes from employees? Did you know that the average shoplifter, when caught has stolen approximately $190. while the average employee, when caught has stolen $1350? As an employer, who would you be most concerned about?

What kind of credit report do you think most in prison for theft have?

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Yes, exactly---Obviously that's where I learned a lot of my financial smarts. But, I offered it up for free in speeches to any fellow student who wanted to listen.

And, I didn't learn about credit from daddy. I actually taught daddy a thing or two about credit after that first job I mentioned earlier in the thread where I learned a hell-of-a-lot about it.

The problem is--it's really not that difficult to clear up bad credit--it just takes a LOT of time and persistance and most people are not willing to do the grunt work. There is someone very special to me, whom I've done the grunt work for. But, I even made him listen to how and why I was doing everything.
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...Bad credit most certainly is an indication someone is likely to do something illegal...

...Someone who is unable to handle their own finanaces is more likely to steal from a company...
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

I don't see the connection. People who will steal are people who will steal, period.

I have committed minor legal/moral violations, such as small-scale traffic violations, dope smoking, sleeping with my girlfriends, etc. But I have never harmed anyone or taken their stuff.

Despite a near-perfect credit history, I got into trouble many years ago and it took awhile to clear up the mess. Even so, it never occurred to me to steal from my boss or anyone else.

I believe a solid employment history and a clean criminal record speaks far more to what a potential employer can expect than does a blemish in one's personal life.

Cheers,
Jon



People who are in dire financial difficulties are more likely to steal than those who are not. A father who has a sick child in need of medication is more likely to steal than on who has a healthy child. Someone with a drug problem is more likely to steal than someone without a drug problem.

It's true some steal for the thrill and thats something a criminal check may discover. Did you know that almost 90% of company theft comes from employees? Did you know that the average shoplifter, when caught has stolen approximately $190. while the average employee, when caught has stolen $1350? As an employer, who would you be most concerned about?

What kind of credit report do you think most in prison for theft have?



$1350 pails in comparison to Enron, or to the ex-CEO of Tyco, who had awesome credit... enough to have several Manhattan banks underwrite millions in loans in addition to personal loans received from the company. Who protects shareholders from that? Executive search firms don't do credit history reports.

The Philadelphia City Treasurer, who was KNOWN to have bad credit, was investigated by the FBI and charged with bribery. Rick Mariano on the Philadelphia City Council, who did have a good credit background, was also indicted for bribery.

Commerce Bank of Philadelphia was found to be giving out loans to politicians left and right in order for the City to move its deposits to this bank and will probably face criminal charges for participating in the City's pay-for-play fiasco. Commerce Bank's hiring policy also does involve a consumer report check in addition to everything else, and yet they still hired bad apples up in the highest levels of management.

I really think the screening is hypocritical if you ask me.

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It's always easy to point to a few examples and then try to portray it as the norm. Heck, I can point to many examples where someone with an exemplary driving record caused an accident. But if you asked me whether a persons driving record would have any influence on how much I trusted them to operate a school bus loaded with children, I'd prefer the person with the good record over someone with a lot of speeding tickets, DUI's etc.

A credit report is an indication of someones ability to handle responsibility whether it applies to you personally or not.

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People who are in dire financial difficulties are more likely to steal than those who are not. A father who has a sick child in need of medication is more likely to steal than on who has a healthy child.



Based on what evidence? A crime has not been committed, so there's no pattern of behavior to base that on.

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Someone with a drug problem is more likely to steal than someone without a drug problem.



It can be argued that they have committed a crime, so they're more likely to commit another, but that's not really the issue here.

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It's true some steal for the thrill and thats something a criminal check may discover. Did you know that almost 90% of company theft comes from employees?



True, but there is nothing to prove that more of the theft is caused by people with bad credit.

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Did you know that the average shoplifter, when caught has stolen approximately $190. while the average employee, when caught has stolen $1350? As an employer, who would you be most concerned about?



The employee, but treating someone as a criminal because of a bad credit history probably isn't going to stop stuff from being stolen.

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What kind of credit report do you think most in prison for theft have?



Just because alot of criminals have bad credit does not mean all people with bad credit are criminals.

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I think there's also a great deal of information that you might not even recognize as part of his teaching you and vice versa for the guy without the rich dad.

It's more about state of mind than hard information transference.

TV's got them images, TV's got them all, nothing's shocking.

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It's always easy to point to a few examples and then try to portray it as the norm. Heck, I can point to many examples where someone with an exemplary driving record caused an accident. But if you asked me whether a persons driving record would have any influence on how much I trusted them to operate a school bus loaded with children, I'd prefer the person with the good record over someone with a lot of speeding tickets, DUI's etc.

A credit report is an indication of someones ability to handle responsibility whether it applies to you personally or not.



But, a credit report often contains inaccurate data, and doesn't point out exceptional circumstances.

If you are laid off from Enron and also suffer from lupus (thus you rack up a ton of unpaid medication and hospitalization), should that disqualify you from employment for the remainder of your life?

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