Employers Asking For Credit Checks

[christoofar 0]

Lovely. I got an email last week from a prospective employer asking to submit to a background check.

Fine.

MVR? (driving history) Fine.

Drug test? Fine.

Now, please give us your tax-ID number so we can run your consumer report.

WTF?

Now, I know employers have started doing this because they think it will protect them from embezzlers, but what does that have to do with people who divorce deadbeat spouses or college students who rack up debt? Now if you don't have an amazing credit score, you can be passed up even though you may be well qualified for the position.

Employers have been successfully hiring people for well over 200 years in the U.S. w/o the need for this. And now, if you happen to get laid off and run into trouble, your ONLY recourse is now to declare backruptcy, because under the FCRA, employers cannot use backruptcy to deny you a position or a promotion.

I got mad and decided to fire off a nastygram to the Pennsylvania state legislature and to Congress. Feel free to use this letter (modify it for your state and sen/rep) if you feel the same way.



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January 10th, 2006




Your Address Here




The Honorable Rick Santorum
511 Dirksen Senate Office Building
Washington, D.C. 20510




Re: FCRA, Consumer Reports and Employer Pre-screening in the United States




Dear Mr. Santorum:




I am writing you concerning an employment pre-screening practice which is growing in popularity in Pennsylvania and throughout the nation: the notion of using consumer reports as a gauge in assessing a job candidate's appropriateness to fill a position.

Although this practice seems noble in theory, as you well know, a staggering number of consumers have incorrect or blatenly false information on their credit histories. This information is extremely difficult to remove from a credit report if the account is in collection with an agency who is not the original creditor--fearing the loss of business for recoupment of the account.

The Wall Street Journal in a recent survey discovered that 25% of people who asked for a credit report challenged information they received as incorrect or outdated. Another survey found that 48 percent of the credit reports they contained had errors.1 Also, many companies who have poor data-validation procedures manage to damage consumer credit reports with inaccurate, incomplete or simply bad information.2 This is contrary to criminal background checks, which are usually accurate, but often omit information due to the machinations of collecting the information.

This problem is very critical to Pennsylvanians who are seeking work. This practice by employers who use information which is known to be polluted also arises other questions: how do employers treat divorcees whose spouse has a negative consumer report? How do your constituents who are laid off and overextended themselves to feed their families find better paying jobs to repay their creditors? Extenuating circumstances do not appear on a consumer report. This practice by employers will only encourage more bankruptcies as it certainly guarantees that workers who are in difficult situations will be locked out of employment.

Another discomforting factor with employees who have allowed their employers to screen their consumer reports via the FCRA (Fair Credit Reporting Act), is that employers can now discover who an employee is interviewing with as well as review a wealth of information about what their employees do outside the workplace. The current employer is then free to respond negatively to a potential future employer's inquiries about prior and existing employment to such questions as "is the employee eligible for re-hire?" Would any business owner respond favorably if they knew their employee was pursing a better opportunity? What shall we do next, Mr. Santorum? Allow employers to ask the IRS for copies of employees' prior tax returns?

One of the "big three" consumer reports vendors encourages employers not to use the information contained within a consumer report as a basis to deny employment3. This raises very intriguing questions in the public mind as to why and what purposes employers use this data and why they need this data when much more telling information about an employee's character is available in accurate criminal background checks, driving records and drug screening tests.

Employers managed to hire outstanding candidates for over two-hundred years without the need for information gleemed from inaccurate consumer reports. Although this attempt by employers to use actuary science to find the best applicant is interesting, job applicants have no reverse recourse against prospective employers other than negative information in EEOC and BBB filings. There is no way for an employee to avoid the next Enron, or to know which employer is about to scuttle their pension plan or outsource work to foreign countries.

Mr. Santorum, this practice is not only paradoxical and illogical, but it is also widely unpopular with the general public, and your constituents. I strongly urge you to consider legislation that would deter this practice from damaging the lives of working Pennsylvanians who need the income to repay their debts and pay their taxes. By taking action, employers around the Nation would reconsider their egregious use of this violation of consumer privacy and help reverse a twenty year trend of deteriorating consumer rights.


Yours sincerely,



[Your Name]

cc / Pennsylvania General Assembly (at-large)

1 http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/12/18/national/main533421.shtml - Credit Report Accuracy Challenged
2 http://www.gcn.com/25_01/news/37929-1.html
3 http://www.experian.com/life_events/employment.html - Experian encourages employers not to deny employment based on credit history

____________________________________________________________
I'm RICK JAMES! Fo shizzle.

[AlexCrowley 0]

It depends on the role people are being hired for.

If you're getting near money then a credit check is part of the background check.

Your credit score isnt taken into account (at least, it isnt where I've worked) - it's really just to make sure you're not a total wanker.

TV's got them images, TV's got them all, nothing's shocking.

[narcimund 0]

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The Honorable Rick Santorum

Off topic, but I just CAN'T hear that name without thinking of ... well ... errrr ....

Just go to google and search on "santorum". That's all there is to that.

First Class Citizen Twice Over

[christoofar 0]

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The Honorable Rick Santorum

Off topic, but I just CAN'T hear that name without thinking of ... well ... errrr ....

Just go to google and search on "santorum". That's all there is to that.

I know. I felt dirty just licking the stamp yesterday. He's on his way out of office anyway, doubt he'll even respond. I do hope to hear from Arlen Specter. If he says anything positive then I'll go back to Kinkos with his letter and forward that to the General Assembly here.

____________________________________________________________
I'm RICK JAMES! Fo shizzle.

[Rebecca 0]

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The Honorable Rick Santorum

Off topic, but I just CAN'T hear that name without thinking of ... well ... errrr ....

Just go to google and search on "santorum". That's all there is to that.

Hee hee!! I was thinking the same thing. I love Dan Savage...

you've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel loquacious?' -- well do you, punk?

[christoofar 0]

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It depends on the role people are being hired for.

If you're getting near money then a credit check is part of the background check.

Your credit score isnt taken into account (at least, it isnt where I've worked) - it's really just to make sure you're not a total wanker.

I understand why the companies *feel* they need to go after this information, especially after so many public embarrasements with politicians forging information on resumes and such.

However, ad-hoc screening of consumer reports when we all know that a good portion of the data is bad, is just wrong. Besides, this data isn't as forthright as contacting the previous employer and doing your basic follow-up work when screening a hire. If the employee was a bad apple, a criminal background check and drug screen is going to turn something up before a credit check would. The "horror stories" of the day care nannies who were convicted of sex crimes aren't going to turn up on an Equifax readout.

I have a mediocre credit score from student debt. I already have to compete with foreigners who don't have credit, live 4-6 people in a house, and will work for pennies on L-1 and H1-B visas (which the quotas on H1B has already been exacerbated for 2006). The last thing anybody needs is yet another obstacle to getting work.

A consumer report is to show your history of relationships with creditors, it's doesn't tell you anything about a job candidate's performance on the job or how she or he gets along with others. It's also an invasion of privacy.

____________________________________________________________
I'm RICK JAMES! Fo shizzle.

[mikkey 0]

Tthis and an earlier thread regarding personal information sought by a potential employer raises the question if the US has any privacy laws? This type of stuff would be completely illegal in many other countries (e.g. here in OZ).

Down here there has to be a very good reason for asking for personal information and it is limited and highly regulated. E.g. Banks can ask for a police record check before they employ people.

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When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

[christoofar 0]

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Tthis and an earlier thread regarding personal information sought by a potential employer raises the question if the US has any privacy laws? This type of stuff would be completely illegal in many other countries (e.g. here in OZ).

Down here there has to be a very good reason for asking for personal information and it is limited and highly regulated. E.g. Banks can ask for a police record check before they employ people.

Unfortunately, the last revison to the Fair Credit Reporting Act (FCRA) expressly gives permission for anyone to order a consumer report, but only if the individual authorizes it.

It's really a catch-22 if this is a potential employer asking for this information. You say no, you don't get hired (most likely).

Since I was already running into 2 pages with that letter, I had to cut it off short. I wanted to include other information like:
- The big ChoicePoint fuckup last year with accidentally giving out consumer information and tax IDs to non-authorized entities
- Bank of America accidentally misplacing DAT tapes with over 20 million customer account statement records

These companies are all doublespeak when it comes to privacy. They demand you provide all this access to your private information, yet it gets passed around like a $2 whore in their backend systems with no respect for your wishes.

Now if I get hired at a company which I have singed one of these waivers for my consumer report, everyone in HR will know what accounts i have with which stores, how much my credit limit and what my current balance is for all of my accounts... how much my student loan debt is. They'll also know what other employers looked at my credit report recetly (that's how they can find out if you are interviewing elsewhere).

And, what's to keep your new boss from knowing this information?

____________________________________________________________
I'm RICK JAMES! Fo shizzle.

[christoofar 0]

AHA.

Here's an update.

I just got a phone call from the recruiter that was setting me up with the interview. I just got passed up because of my credit score.

So, there you have it.

GD-mit I am SO pissed off.

____________________________________________________________
I'm RICK JAMES! Fo shizzle.

[quade 3]

There is no real privacy in the U.S. You might think you have a right to it, but you don't. Not really anyway.

And it's not because "Big Brother" is out to get you and it's not some "Grand Conspiracy", but rather that corporations in the U.S. have fought hundreds of small and individually incremental fights (that nobody cared about) so that they can look into virtually every aspect of our lives.

If "they" want to, "they" can pretty much figure out what you eat, watch and read, who you talk to, where you are at just about any given moment, how often you have sex . . . it just doesn't get more private than that.

The ONLY thing 99% of us have going for us is that we're boring as hell and that information is being collected on 300 or so million of us, which means we as individuals are pretty insignificant and therefore -- nobody cares.

The exception to this is when -somebody- does care like in the hiring process.

Corporation have access to and USE information the GOVERNMENT is not allowed to look at without warrants.

Think about it.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[lummy 4]

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A consumer report is to show your history of relationships with creditors, it's doesn't tell you anything about a job candidate's performance on the job or how she or he gets along with others.

In a way, it is relevent. Credit reports will show how responsible someone is in taking care of their personal finances. Your credit should be important to you. If you are consistently late paying bills or even worse, blowing them off entirely, what's to say you will act differently with the responsibilities of the job?

I promise not to TP Davis under canopy.. I promise not to TP Davis under canopy.. eat sushi, get smoochieTTK#1

[christoofar 0]

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A consumer report is to show your history of relationships with creditors, it's doesn't tell you anything about a job candidate's performance on the job or how she or he gets along with others.

In a way, it is relevent. Credit reports will show how responsible someone is in taking care of their personal finances. Your credit should be important to you. If you are consistently late paying bills or even worse, blowing them off entirely, what's to say you will act differently with the responsibilities of the job?

Meh. That's like saying someone stuck with an ARM (adjustable rate mortgage) they thought was a good deal in the mid to late 1990s shouldn't be allowed to work on electronics because they were too stupid to know that's not a good idea for a mortgage. So when the nasty principal payments come, can't pay or show as overextended on credit, there goes your ability to work.

I don't buy it.

We are a debt-driven society. If this becomes a problem I'll just go declare bankruptcy. IRA funds aren't collateral nor recourse for dischargeable debts. But I can get out of the FCRA loophole by drawing a penalty-applied distribution from my IRA, delcare bankruptcy, and then look rosy again in front of employers.

____________________________________________________________
I'm RICK JAMES! Fo shizzle.

[christoofar 0]

Better yet... you can be stuck working at McDonald's for seven years, which doesn't give you enough money to pay back your debts, to have them discharged off your credit report.

Love that vicious cycle!

____________________________________________________________
I'm RICK JAMES! Fo shizzle.

[dropoutdave 0]

That's totally fucked up. I'm not sure if they did that in the UK, will have to look into it. Mind you, if a company insisted on doing that i'd tell them to go fuck, not the kind of place i'd want to work for anyway.

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May Contain Nut traces......

[Andy9o8 0]

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A consumer report is to show your history of relationships with creditors, it's doesn't tell you anything about a job candidate's performance on the job or how she or he gets along with others.

In a way, it is relevent. Credit reports will show how responsible someone is in taking care of their personal finances. Your credit should be important to you. If you are consistently late paying bills or even worse, blowing them off entirely, what's to say you will act differently with the responsibilities of the job?

Bullshit. Personal finances are exactly that - personal. Just because information may be "useful" or "relevant" on a purely utilitarian basis doesn't translate, as a matter of social ethics, to something for which a job applicant should be forced to give up his right to personal privacy to an employer. This kind of intrusive shit, all in the name of "relevance", degrades and dehumanizes society, and it really pisses me off.

I could go on in detail about this, but I already did it here: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1964742#1964742
...and I stand by what I said in it.

In a civil society, you have to balance "usefulness" with social ethics, and in the US, this issue is pitifully out of balance.

[Andy9o8 0]

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That's totally fucked up. I'm not sure if they did that in the UK, will have to look into it. Mind you, if a company insisted on doing that i'd tell them to go fuck, not the kind of place i'd want to work for anyway.

Yeah, but the problem with that is if you live in a country in which all employers are allowed to do that, then all employers will do that - and there will be precious few left that don't. Then where will you work?

[christoofar 0]

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That's totally fucked up. I'm not sure if they did that in the UK, will have to look into it. Mind you, if a company insisted on doing that i'd tell them to go fuck, not the kind of place i'd want to work for anyway.

Yeah, but the problem with that is if you live in a country in which all employers are allowed to do that, then all employers will do that - and there will be precious few left that don't. Then where will you work?

Only ONCE in the last 11 years have I had an employer NOT do a drug screen. ONCE.

Right now, approximately 1/3 of companies will call up a consumer report.

Somebody should stop this trend before it becomes 100%. I just fired of a letter to the ACLU. Maybe someone knows if there is an effort somewhere to get this stopped?

____________________________________________________________
I'm RICK JAMES! Fo shizzle.

[lauras 0]

Want to get bonded or work in the financial industry? Surprise! Credit checks up the wazoo. Some investment banks go so far as to question your purchases... seriously.

[christoofar 0]

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Want to get bonded or work in the financial industry? Surprise! Credit checks up the wazoo. Some investment banks go so far as to question your purchases... seriously.

This wasn't for a bank.

____________________________________________________________
I'm RICK JAMES! Fo shizzle.

[christoofar 0]

I'm a software engineer, and my last job I had was dealing with critical credit card information processing. I also have stellar references from the last job.

Had the employer bothered to ask my last employer about my ability to handle sensitive information they wouldn't have made the decison they did. Either way, the sofware work I was interviewing for had nothing to do with handling money, it was all statistical drudgery.

I still have other options, but I can see where this trend is going in the long run.

My credit is good enough that I get bombarded with insurance and credit card offers in my junk mail every day. But a gigantic student loan that has been re-fied and extended that is also over half of what I make in a year looks REALLY bad to your FICO score (some lenders ignore these loans, others don't).

____________________________________________________________
I'm RICK JAMES! Fo shizzle.

[christoofar 0]

In any case, I used to think crying "bankruptcy" was a bad thing. Not anymore!

Shoot, if I do it now, I can have a clean slate way before the time I retire and drop my payments I've been making to infintessimal amounts, even AFTER the new bankruptcy law went into effect (before you could just eliminate it altogether).

____________________________________________________________
I'm RICK JAMES! Fo shizzle.

[Andy9o8 0]

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Somebody should stop this trend before it becomes 100%. I just fired of a letter to the ACLU. Maybe someone knows if there is an effort somewhere to get this stopped?

The only way that could happen is with state or federal legislation. Only a Democrat-majority legislature (or Congress) would even consider passing it (still doubtful; consider all the campaign contributions from corporations that are big employers); and even if it did pass, a GOP governor or president would probably veto it. Depressing, isn't it?

[christoofar 0]

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Somebody should stop this trend before it becomes 100%. I just fired of a letter to the ACLU. Maybe someone knows if there is an effort somewhere to get this stopped?

The only way that could happen is with state or federal legislation. Only a Democrat-majority legislature (or Congress) would even consider passing it (still doubtful; consider all the campaign contributions from corporations that are big employers); and even if it did pass, a GOP governor or president would probably veto it. Depressing, isn't it?

Considering that Pennsylvania is a blue state with a red legislature, the idea (while popular I'm sure) probably won't fly with politicos.

If a state does pass such a restriction, I'm packing my bags and moving!

____________________________________________________________
I'm RICK JAMES! Fo shizzle.

[kallend 1,623]

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Corporation have access to and USE information the GOVERNMENT is not allowed to look at without warrants.

.

Very funny, Paul. All Bush has to do is sign an executive order. Doesn't even have to say he's done it. And half the people are cheering him on.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[dropoutdave 0]

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Yeah, but the problem with that is if you live in a country in which all employers are allowed to do that, then all employers will do that - and there will be precious few left that don't. Then where will you work?

Simple, i'd be self employed like I am now and conduct my own drug tests.........yep i'm pretty fucked!

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May Contain Nut traces......