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JRock

9mm vs .45

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[Stay the hell away from Ruger and Berretta, though, I've never found any of their weapons to be anything but a piece of crap that you would be better off hitting the aggressor with.

I've owned Ruger, shot Baretta, and find them adequate, but not my first pick. What's your beef with them?

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I've owned Ruger, shot Baretta, and find them adequate, but not my first pick. What's your beef with them?



My personal experiences with them. I've had brand spanking new Rugers crap out with good quality ammo on the range where things are nice and clean and friendly. I've personally seen them crap out as well by breaking something important. I've personally seen firing pins break as well as recoil springs and rods break. With the Baretta I've yet to see one that functioned as it should every single time. That and the triggers SUCK on them.

I've shot a lot of Glocks, I own a few Glocks and I've put a large amount of brass through a Glock with a 99.99% reliability rate. (1 stovepiped casing in about 15,000rds). For the "cheap" weapons, Glock is really the way to go. That's my opinion, but that opinion is also shared by thousands of LEOs across the country as well as thousands of other civilians across the country.

Then again, I wish folks would really educated themselves as well, but want in one hand...
--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

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Which one would you buy?
Some people say if needed for self defense the 9mm doesn't have enough stopping power vs. the .45.



Strictly between the two?

How often do you expect to need to use it in self-defence as opposed to how often are you going to practice?

IMHO either will get a potential assailant's whole & undivided attention.

My own preference would be for a double-tap of 9mm rather than a single blast of .45ACP.

Remember that the military 9mm ball is supposed to be a "humane" round per some bit of The Geneva Convention that prohibits armys using non-jacketed bullets. As has been said elsewhere, there's other types of 9mm out there which means you can use the "Cheap-as-Chips" 9mm Ball on the range and switch to frangible for the "off-range-just-in-case" scenario.

Mike.

Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable.

Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode.

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i always tow a 155mm Howitzer behind my car...



Perhaps you should shop HERE

There's a lovely little FV432. Only one previous owner (who used it for touring Germany) and ideal for those crowded supermarket car parks.:ph34r:

Mike.

Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable.

Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode.

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Some people say if needed for self defense the 9mm doesn't have enough stopping power vs. the .45.

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The major issue with the 9MM when using it in self-defense is that the rounds are so light and travel so fast that they don't cause very much hydrostatic shock when they hit a person. Basically they cut a clean hole straight through a guy without causing much damage, you can put a 9MM round straight through a guy's chest without knocking him down and he'll keep going. the alternative to this issue is to use hydra shock rounds if you can get your hands on them, they won't go straight through a person but at the same time still don't have the weight to put someone on their ass as hard as a .45.

Good example, a couple of my buddies got ambushed in Tikrit and only had their pistols with them at the time, they said not a single enemy went down on the first shot, everyone took multiple shots to put down.

As for the .45, I love em personally, yes they are a bit heavier but that shouldn't be much of an issue, it's only a pistol. someone in an earlier reply mentioned heavier recoil causing their shot group to be less accurate, this can be true but with the right training it can be fixed. I used to have trouble keeping my shot goup within a 3 inch circle on my 9MM, but recently I got some training from an experienced competition shooter and with what I learned about adjusting my grip on the weapon my double taps now hit the same hole.

As for what pistol to buy, I'm a big fan of the HK USP .45. It's a big pistol, and I wouldn't recommend it for someone who has small hands, but they are made very well and are quite accurate.

Good shootin;)

History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid.
--Dwight D. Eisenhower

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The major issue with the 9MM when using it in self-defense is that the rounds are so light and travel so fast that they don't cause very much hydrostatic shock when they hit a person. Basically they cut a clean hole straight through a guy without causing much damage, you can put a 9MM round straight through a guy's chest without knocking him down and he'll keep going.



That's a possible problem with military ball rounds... not a problem found very often with modern self defense rounds. Modern SD rounds will tend to stay within "the recipient" and dump all available energy.

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The alternative to this issue is to use hydra shock rounds if you can get your hands on them, they won't go straight through a person but at the same time still don't have the weight to put someone on their ass as hard as a .45.



Like the racers say... "There's no replacement for displacement!" Or, in this case... kinetic energy.

Kinetic energy from a bullet strike (excluding the Murfreesburo Five-Oh) isn't going to knock anybody down - if that was the case, the recoil of firing the round would knock the shooter over, as well.

General systemic shock and other related effects can/will cause physical collapse after receiving a gunshot, however...
Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

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We had a shooting where our 9mm rounds would'nt penetrate the car door (with the window rolled down) of a 1990 Plymouth Acclaim. These were +p+ rounds, 113 grain jacketed hollow points. A 9mm ball round would have punched right through the door. That's the reason we DON'T use ball rounds in urban police work, over penetration mainly on people or walls. Kinda sucked on the car door though since the bad guys were shooting at us.
My preference is still 9mm, I have very small hand (and feet, ladies do the math:(). The Glock 19 is perfect for me. But .45's are still the man stopper bench mark. I just don't like the recoil and actual size of the gun for everyday use.
If I was full-time spec-ops and had the time to train and could afford all the ammo, I'd go with the .45

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

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Which one would you buy?
Some people say if needed for self defense the 9mm doesn't have enough stopping power vs. the .45.



I like my USP .45 just because the bullets are so damn big. :P I also find the recoil on the .45 to be more of a push than a snap, which is personally easier to deal with. Having said that, there's probably a 9mm purchase in the near future for me.B|

Gotta go... plaything needs to spank me
Feel the hate...
Photos here

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Which one would you buy?
Some people say if needed for self defense the 9mm doesn't have enough stopping power vs. the .45.



I like my USP .45 just because the bullets are so damn big. :P I also find the recoil on the .45 to be more of a push than a snap, which is personally easier to deal with. Having said that, there's probably a 9mm purchase in the near future for me.B|



yo on't fancy a nice Howitzer? guaranteed to kill all grannies up to 100 feet :)
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drive it like you stole it and f*ck the police

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Go with the 9mm.. Better choice.. If you need stopping power you have a wide variety of rounds to choose from. I'd rather have 15 in the mag and 1 in the chamber than the alternative.. No need for a 45 if you can shoot. AP rounds in a 9mm will go through just about any vest. Their isn't a 9mm on the market that won't penetrate a forehead ;)

The guy with the 45 will be thinking about reloading as I put 5 more bullets in his ass.

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Go with the 9mm.. Better choice.. If you need stopping power you have a wide variety of rounds to choose from.



I'll take my 9mm pre-expanded, thanks.... :P One trip to the range and the bowling pin table was enough to convince me that the .45 was better for me. 9mm spins the pins around and knocks some of them down... the .45 knocked them down/off the table everytime. Sounds like a better use of the available energy to me...

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AP rounds in a 9mm will go through just about any vest.



AP rounds are illegal and will gain you time in Federal-pound-me-in-the-ass prison if you're caught in possession...
Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

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Go with the 9mm.. Better choice.. If you need stopping power you have a wide variety of rounds to choose from. I'd rather have 15 in the mag and 1 in the chamber than the alternative.. No need for a 45 if you can shoot. AP rounds in a 9mm will go through just about any vest. Their isn't a 9mm on the market that won't penetrate a forehead ;)

The guy with the 45 will be thinking about reloading as I put 5 more bullets in his ass.



see that's the fallacy right there... people w/ 45s like me don't NEED a mag that holds 72 pussy-europellet 9mm rounds... i have 7 in the mag and one up the pipe on my kimber... for god's sake, it's like shooting an ash tray at someone... it just takes one or two shots and it'd done. If I need more than 8 rounds, I have two more mags on my galco shoulder rig and i've become pretty quick at exchanging empties for fulls.

I miss Lee.
And JP.
And Chris. And...

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It's amazing how many rounds are often fired in an actual fire-fight, particularly using pistols. I'd like to think I could get the bad guy with one shot. It would be really tough to take your time and make that shot count when bullets were flying back at you.....Steve1

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It's amazing how many rounds are often fired in an actual fire-fight, particularly using pistols. I'd like to think I could get the bad guy with one shot. It would be really tough to take your time and make that shot count when bullets were flying back at you.....Steve1



Amen.

If someone's pointing a pistol at you in a firefight you're generally pretty safe unless he's aiming at someone else!:S

Mike.

Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable.

Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode.

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It's amazing how many rounds are often fired in an actual fire-fight, particularly using pistols. I'd like to think I could get the bad guy with one shot. It would be really tough to take your time and make that shot count when bullets were flying back at you.....Steve1



yeah, i know... i was just being an "I like 45s better than pussy ass 9mm" kinda guy... i really don't have much against the europellet, esp. the hotter loads... they'll still make some righteous holes in bad guys.

I miss Lee.
And JP.
And Chris. And...

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It's amazing how many rounds are often fired in an actual fire-fight, particularly using pistols. I'd like to think I could get the bad guy with one shot. It would be really tough to take your time and make that shot count when bullets were flying back at you.....Steve1



Amen.

If someone's pointing a pistol at you in a firefight you're generally pretty safe unless he's aiming at someone else!:S

Mike.



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v77/cosmo1111/mosose4mw.gif :)
________________________________________
drive it like you stole it and f*ck the police

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I always carry a Magnum when i go to the supermarket, you never know when one of those little old ladies is going to attack... you can't take any chances with those fuckers... you're going down, bitch



Dont blame you dude, heres proof that grannies are fucking deadly ...

you might wanna stick to that Howitzer coz the way shes holding that weapon she means buisness ....

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