0
JRock

9mm vs .45

Recommended Posts

Quote

***


I couldn't agree with you more, but it's difficult for civilians to train under stress.

Whatever you choose, choose to spend plenty of time at the range!!! :)



you can practice under stress, and you should do this.
out on the range, get instructions from a pro in tactical weapon use.
for firsttimers, it is hard to hit a stillstanding target if they have to do 15 situps in front, get back on their feet and fire a triple (body-body-head) successfully.

it is harder to react right and consequent in a lifethreatening situation, when untrained.

in my experience, it also depends on the ammo you are using.

my vector 9mm shoots the usual full metal bullets.
(I also use a taurus .357 mag, but as a six-gun.)

it is known, that if these bullets hit you without destroying an important part of your body (like head, arteria, etc.), it will feel like a hot stitch with a needle, especially if you are under adrenaline.

when using manstopping-ammo, the effect would be much different, even with 9mm.
the usual .45 semi-wadcutter bullet or hollow points of course have more man stopping power, but also require more power in your arms.
my choice would be a glock with 9 mm jacketed hollow point ammo.
easy to carry and holds more bullets than a .45 gun.
it gives me the possibility to fight back quick against multiple threats.
(sometimes 15 + 1 is not a bad thing to have).
also the possible risks of injury for uninvolved people would be less.
this is why special-units use this type of ammo.
if you hit someone, he will be serious injured, but only he will be.

but this is only the view of a non-professional.
--------------------------------------------------

With sufficient thrust,
pigs just fly well

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote


you can practice under stress, and you should do this.
out on the range, get instructions from a pro in tactical weapon use.
for firsttimers, it is hard to hit a stillstanding target if they have to do 15 situps in front, get back on their feet and fire a triple (body-body-head) successfully.




I understand the value of physical exertion followed by triple fire and have done that, but I would not agree that it qualifies as training under stress.
________________________________________

"One out of every four American's are suffering from some form of mental illness. Think of your three best friends. If they're okay, then it's you."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Quote


you can practice under stress, and you should do this.
out on the range, get instructions from a pro in tactical weapon use.
for firsttimers, it is hard to hit a stillstanding target if they have to do 15 situps in front, get back on their feet and fire a triple (body-body-head) successfully.




I understand the value of physical exertion followed by triple fire and have done that, but I would not agree that it qualifies as training under stress.



Well, it DOES get the heart rate up and some adrenaline going...so it helps in that respect - you can see (to a degree) how it will affect you.
Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote


I understand the value of physical exertion followed by triple fire and have done that, but I would not agree that it qualifies as training under stress.



I am on your side, definetly.
my thoughts about firsttimers should only make visible, that just small physical challenge will decrease your performance dramatically.
combattraining is much more, of course.
everyone has to think about that.
a gunfight in a room without earprotection is something different to a shooting range.
and pointing a gun onto another person is even harder (usually).
a possible intruder is prepared, also experienced and willing to accept the risk (mostly).
proper training can help you out, but is always to see in interrelation with someone´s personality.
It needs both, the will to fight back and the ability.
ability comes with training.
and real self defense training is a complex work.
--------------------------------------------------

With sufficient thrust,
pigs just fly well

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Well, it DOES get the heart rate up and some adrenaline going...so it helps in that respect - you can see (to a degree) how it will affect you.



I think you would have a heart attack if you did that exercise, judging from your pic, what you weighing at ? 250 plus ?


;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
An amusing, if unscientific test (actually performed)

Sig 9MM - bounces off empty beer keg. Hardly a dent

Colt 45 ACP - bounces off empty beer keg, bigger dent

Desert Eagle 44 Magnum - breaches both sides of empty keg, puts large hole in brick wall behind it.

As a side note, using hydra-shock loads in the Colt did take the back half off of a large metropolitan phone book however.

Dont try this at home until you've polished off the keg:D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

An amusing, if unscientific test (actually performed)

Sig 9MM - bounces off empty beer keg. Hardly a dent

Colt 45 ACP - bounces off empty beer keg, bigger dent

Desert Eagle 44 Magnum - breaches both sides of empty keg, puts large hole in brick wall behind it.

As a side note, using hydra-shock loads in the Colt did take the back half off of a large metropolitan phone book however.

Dont try this at home until you've polished off the keg:D





Clerk: Is that a hand cannon in your trousers or are you just hung like a donkey?

I miss Lee.
And JP.
And Chris. And...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote



Clerk: Is that a hand cannon in your trousers or are you just hung like a donkey?



Hmmm...you know, if I can make a full sized weapon disappear on my body wearing normal clothes, it wouldn't be too hard to dress around a Desert Eagle. Then again, then you would have to carry that heavy piece of crap. I'll stick with my Kimber of baby Glock or my...well, you get the idea.:P
--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Quote



Clerk: Is that a hand cannon in your trousers or are you just hung like a donkey?



Hmmm...you know, if I can make a full sized weapon disappear on my body wearing normal clothes, it wouldn't be too hard to dress around a Desert Eagle. Then again, then you would have to carry that heavy piece of crap. I'll stick with my Kimber of baby Glock or my...well, you get the idea.:P



me too... that's why i got the kimber ultra carry... small yet very accurate and powerful... and as backup, a kel-tel .32 (VERY tiny).

I miss Lee.
And JP.
And Chris. And...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Which one would you buy?
Some people say if needed for self defense the 9mm doesn't have enough stopping power vs. the .45.

The colt .45 was addopted by the military during a war time engagment, the red chiness were hi on opum and were unstopable after being shot, so yes the .45 has alot of stoping power. The 9mm. is a far more acurate round at greater distance. It all comes down to what is your worst case sinerio. In mine...... IF I ever pull out my hand gun I going to shoot someone, I don't play with guns, and I will never try to bluff. I pretty sure it will be at close range so accuracy at great distances dosn't factor in. Basicly if a thug is running away I let him go, If he is charging me than it will be close quarted battle. My personal choice is a .40 I found it to be the best of both worlds. Pretty accurate, has somewhat stopping power, and with regular (field tip) ammo I'm not worried ablout it passing through the perp. and hitting an innocant vic. A 9mm. is only a little bit smaller round than a .38. A .40 is close to a 10mm. For whatever reason I perfer standard mesurments over metric. Keep in mind If you fired a .44 mag in your home.....well you may not be able to hear for sometime, and probably dislocate your sholder if you fired it in a hurry with one hand "off the hip". The desert eagle .44 is HUGE and bulk to manouver in close quarters.
_________________________________________

Someone dies, someone says how stupid, someone says it was avoidable, someone says how to avoid it, someone calls them an idiot, someone proposes rule chan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Quote

Well, it DOES get the heart rate up and some adrenaline going...so it helps in that respect - you can see (to a degree) how it will affect you.



I think you would have a heart attack if you did that exercise, judging from your pic, what you weighing at ? 250 plus ?


;)



Actually, about 200-205...but thanks for asking ;)
Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
in reply to "I have shot both, and I have been in combat. The .45 acp will stop ANYONE faster than a 9mm."
................................................

Ahh the truth of the matter.
Of course you're right. 9mm is more of a comfort thing ... more like fun than hard work. The little beggars can be kinda comforting though.

I aint been in the sort of combat you're talking but I've had many a bullet go past my ears and learnt that rather than calibre it's just as much about cover and even running away .(Live to fight another day).
I learnt to carry the biggest most powerful thing I could happily tolerate and not be shy in using it. No-one was protecting me or showing me how to do it.

This whole arg is a bit like the .223 v's .30 .

After shooting both and loving the mini's for their high capacity low recoil it was the .30 that got to live by my side. Not having to worry much about carry over due to good sized hills these larger rounds work better at shooing ornery claim jumpers.

You're so right about women shooting better than most men. Something to do with their breathe control and basic killer instincts.
My ladyfriend puts me to shame even after I've been practising. Something needs shootin' and she's around ..............B|

I suppose most people in cities wouldn't be needing to consider a rifle so much . In the country it can be a lot different. No police nearby, psycho genes prevalent and long dark lonely nights.

Haven't been shot at now properly for a couple of years. Mostly I don't even get to see who they are...although the shifty fearful looks at the nearest town sometimes give me some clues.

9mm or .45 ???? there was a time just any gun would have been good.

:)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I prefer to stick with weapons that carry NATO rounds... usually a greater availability in a "war" time situation. ( 9mm..308)

I've read that most civilian fire fights take place at 15' or less. If this is true, I'd stick with my Springfield 45. It's a bitch to conceal in Florida during the summer though. My Glock 26 is much more comfortable.

From a legal standpoint, don't carry ammo that is anything other than over the counter "plain jane". If you shoot someone (especially while they're running away, or with an AP...hydroshock...etc. round) there's a good chance that you're going to jail, or going broke from legal fees.

At home, a double barrel 12 gauge with #7 birdshot protects the neighbors and make a nasty mess of those you point it at.

"I'd rather be judged by 12, than carried by 6."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Kinetic energy is the name of the game.

There are two stages to a gun shot wound. ( I know first hand). You have the primary wound..the hole, and the secondary wound.

The secondary wound can be the bodies absorbtion of the kinetic energy. Go next door and put one in your neighbors cat. Find the hole and feel the meat around it. It'll be all soft and mushy.

PS- I really do love cats though...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Depends on the weapon I'm using;)



And the *ahem* power and penetration desired? :ph34r:

Personally, as I've stated in the past, I perfer the 45, but that's more so cuz the 1911 is just a sexy looking gun. (and when I want something to go down, I want them to stay down.... at least for a bit.... ;))

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Oh yeah! Nothing made since has the eligance of the 1911. I had never had a leather holster until I bought a 1911, then I *had* to have leather for the weapon.B|

Of course there are other great looking weapons, but most of them are older. Like the Colt Army 1851 or the Patterson Colt...too bad the triggers were weak.
--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
"Your statement reminds me of an old saying "Everyone talks .45, practices 9. and carries a .38."

"The guy with the 45 will be thinking about reloading as I put 5 more bullets in his ass"

Gimme a break!! I talk .45, practice .45 and carry .45.
As far as mag capacity: my Kimber BP II carries 10 with one in the chamber--every round is a well-aimed mainstopper.
OK-I'm a 200 lb male, but I think the reason for the 9mm push is due to the feminization and lowered standards of the gov't.
The .45 has a little kick, but no big deal. A well-aimed .45 will STOP a bad guy--PERIOD!
There's a saying: a 9mm is a .45 set on "STUN"! ;)
“Keep your elbow up!"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

A couple of poster have proclaimed that Beretta (note the spelling) "suck".

Do you have any reason for your prejudice ?



yes, personal experience of multiple malfunctions, cheap components, etc. I've shot SOME berettas that was ok. however, as a whole brand, I've never been impressed.

my father was a cop in the military for 23 years and I heard for years of the crap the beretta were... i'm assuming they still are, based on the general belief that if it's a government contract, it was awarded to the lowest bidder and is probably a crap product. i've also heard from others serving over "in the sandbox" that the berettas they have are crap.

I miss Lee.
And JP.
And Chris. And...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

0