Squirrel SkySnatch?

[wildernessmedic 0]

My PC has about had it. Is a SkySnatch worth the extra money or more of a gimmick?

[sedsquare 14]

I have one on my wingsuit rig. I love it for wingsuiting, but for ordinary belly/freefly/etc I wouldn't spend the extra money. Just my $0.02

[wildernessmedic 0]

sedsquare

I have one on my wingsuit rig. I love it for wingsuiting, but for ordinary belly/freefly/etc I wouldn't spend the extra money. Just my $0.02

I plan on doing a lot of wingsuiting this summer. In that case is it worth the extra $80 for cleaner openings?

[sedsquare 14]

If you plan on wingsuiting, I'd make sure whatever pilot chute you get has a "wingsuit length" bridle (9+ feet). Plenty of people wingsuit with regular pilot chutes with no problem, including those in large/advanced wingsuits. I know one person with a Sky Snatch who feels the improvement in his openings was worth it. If you want to treat yourself to a Sky Snatch that's cool, they're great pilot chutes and I love mine. But if you'd rather save the $80 that's the price of several jump tickets.

[timski 80]

my experience is dont waste your money. focus on a clean pack job and good body position and speed on deployment. Happy flying. oh and a good pull!

[wildernessmedic 0]

timski

my experience is dont waste your money. focus on a clean pack job and good body position and speed on deployment. Happy flying. oh and a good pull!

Thanks guys. If my pc was good I wouldn't even consider it but I badly need a new one.

[hackish 8]

I got their design but ultimately built one for myself that was similar. Their engineering is correct and what they say isn't wrong but the reality is that it's marginally better. They also pack larger.

Due to the increased complexity, I think they will probably wear out faster - BOC pocket too.

-Michael

[Kristian_AUS 0]

A point that hasn't been brought up that I quite like is the fact that is has to my knowledge the lightest handle on the market. Anything that allows the PC to accelerate quicker in the airstream and reduces the chance of the bridle beating it (and potentially choking the PC) is a plus in my opinion.

[hackish 8]

That's a good point. The only thing is, 99.9% of skydivers use the same type of collapsable PC as the other. They work. Those that don't are often the wrong size or badly worn out.

It ain't really broke so how much energy do you want to spend fixing it?

-Michael

[GFawkes69 0]

When I priced out a new PC/long bridle from UPT when I started wingsuiting I was quoted $165, and a SkySnatch was $205 shipped if I remember right. $40 for a tiny bit of peace of mind, in addition to the chance of a slightly more stable bag deployment. I think that's worth it to me. Especially considering that extra $40 may at some point be the deciding factor on if I chop and potentially lose a $1-2k canopy/riser/bag/PC combo.

I'm not a fan of the awkwardly shaped handle but I do understand why they have it. I haven't noticed much of a difference in how it feels for deployment, but someone did jump mine the other day who doesn't have one and said it was significantly better than his standard PC.

If you can spare the extra few bucks to get one, I say go for it. Sure, people have been getting by without them and things were working out fine, but the same could be said about people with horses and buggies when cars came out, too. Just because it's new doesn't mean it's useless ;)

[mxk 1]

GFawkes69

When I priced out a new PC/long bridle from UPT when I started wingsuiting I was quoted $165

I ordered one from UPT on Monday for $150: 27" ZP, freefly handle, wingsuit-length bridle. The bridle is 8' between the pin and the pilot chute, so same as SkySnatch. In my opinion, a handle with a lock tab is more beneficial for safety than a low-oscillation pilot chute.

[hackish 8]

Every time I've replaced a pilot chute for someone they reported much better openings. So if you want to compare properly you need to compare a new factory PC with this one.

The rig manufacturer has a good idea of what works with their own rig. They test them out with respect to the CD, bridle length and amount of time to line stretch. There are some magical numbers that work well with respect to how fast the bag leaves.

If you've ever seen high speed photos of how quick the bag gets off your back the whole idea of it rocking and tumbling about in the wind is a bit of creative thinking/advertising.

Just throwing something else in there that has a higher CD can actually increase the chance of a malfunction. For wingsuiting and BASE, it probably is a good idea because of those unique environments, but for normal skydiving what we've been using for the last 30 or so years works.

-Michael

[wildernessmedic 0]

Not sure where on the spectrum of ok and old this is but it seems like it needs to be replaced to me.

I was leaning towards might as well put in a little extra for for skysnatch until I looked at the handle. Not sure I like the little pvc handle but I've never tried one.



http://s1357.photobucket.com/user/WildernessMedic/media/Skydiving/8F309A53-447F-4490-93D8-DE9BA960D392_zpsrzxjxm4v.jpg.html
Does embedding not work on here?

[gowlerk 1,910]

There is nothing in that picture to show one way or the other if it is still good. All it shows is that the mesh is not brand new, which is inconsequential. I can see no damage, but that is also meaningless.

If you don't understand this already without me telling you then you are likely not knowledgeable enough yet to make any assessment of the airworthiness of the system.

Think of the bridle/ pc/ kill line/ handle as components in a system. look for wear, signs of weakness. These systems will typically wear at the attachment point to the d-bag. The kill line will sometimes break, or wear holes in the bridle. Also, and importantly, look inside the pc at the centre line, usually two of them, that keep the inflated pc from collapsing into a tube. It is a weak point that can cause a lot of trouble for you.

If the p/c is not made of ZP material it is possible that it can become too porous and worn out. But several other places will fail first.

But do not decide based on what you read here. As always, get someone who understands the system to look at it.

As to your original question. Squirrel SkySnatch is neither a gimmick nor a rip off. It's a tool designed for some specific applications. Originally for BASE where it makes some sense. I would advise against it because of the extra bulk. Your BOC Is also part of a system. It was not designed for the bulk and will wear out quicker.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[Kristian_AUS 0]

hackish

That's a good point. The only thing is, 99.9% of skydivers use the same type of collapsable PC as the other. They work. Those that don't are often the wrong size or badly worn out.

It ain't really broke so how much energy do you want to spend fixing it?

-Michael

No energy needed, just order a new PC from a different supplier.

I've personally seen two choked PC's, both pilots were experienced. I know of a few more through friends. I can't tell you exactly how much a light handle will reduce the odds of an entanglement, but for ~$50 more (or 16 cents/jump @ 300 jumps) I'll stack the odds just a little bit more in my favor.

[DHemer 0]

Handle is again designed for WS use, easy to feel and very light.

As mentioned above a heavy handle can allow the bridle to choke off the PC more easily than a light one

The shape is useful for large suits and jumping with gloves.

Not everything on their website is marketing.

Quote

HEXAGONAL CARBON HANDLE
The hexagonal carbon-fiber handle design is very light. It provides a distinct easy-to-feel shape, with minimum weight. The carbon hex is standard on all SkySNATCHes. We do not offer other handle options.

[hackish 8]

Kristian_AUS

No energy needed, just order a new PC from a different supplier.

I've personally seen two choked PC's, both pilots were experienced. I know of a few more through friends. I can't tell you exactly how much a light handle will reduce the odds of an entanglement, but for ~$50 more (or 16 cents/jump @ 300 jumps) I'll stack the odds just a little bit more in my favor.

Depends on the rig. Some are sewn to the d-bag. As I outlined above, putting an untested aftermarket part is likely to be increasing the chances of a malfunction.

I showed my design to chief riggers and designers at 2 of the largest manufacturers. After discussing all the fine details about how their PC works within a system I realized that the design is not appropriate for the general skydiver.

A PDA type PC is not a new idea at all. If pulling the pin and extracting the d-bag at the highest speed possible were the objective we'd all be rocking 48" pilot chutes! The amount of drag generated by your factory unit was carefully selected and tested. It works. Just make sure what you have is maintained in good condition - that's the key to increasing safety.

-Michael

[wildernessmedic 0]

hackish

***
No energy needed, just order a new PC from a different supplier.

I've personally seen two choked PC's, both pilots were experienced. I know of a few more through friends. I can't tell you exactly how much a light handle will reduce the odds of an entanglement, but for ~$50 more (or 16 cents/jump @ 300 jumps) I'll stack the odds just a little bit more in my favor.

Depends on the rig. Some are sewn to the d-bag. As I outlined above, putting an untested aftermarket part is likely to be increasing the chances of a malfunction.

I showed my design to chief riggers and designers at 2 of the largest manufacturers. After discussing all the fine details about how their PC works within a system I realized that the design is not appropriate for the general skydiver.

A PDA type PC is not a new idea at all. If pulling the pin and extracting the d-bag at the highest speed possible were the objective we'd all be rocking 48" pilot chutes! The amount of drag generated by your factory unit was carefully selected and tested. It works. Just make sure what you have is maintained in good condition - that's the key to increasing safety.

-Michael

So this might actually cause more issues on my old gear?

[timski 80]

wildernessmedic

******
No energy needed, just order a new PC from a different supplier.

I've personally seen two choked PC's, both pilots were experienced. I know of a few more through friends. I can't tell you exactly how much a light handle will reduce the odds of an entanglement, but for ~$50 more (or 16 cents/jump @ 300 jumps) I'll stack the odds just a little bit more in my favor.

Depends on the rig. Some are sewn to the d-bag. As I outlined above, putting an untested aftermarket part is likely to be increasing the chances of a malfunction.

I showed my design to chief riggers and designers at 2 of the largest manufacturers. After discussing all the fine details about how their PC works within a system I realized that the design is not appropriate for the general skydiver.

A PDA type PC is not a new idea at all. If pulling the pin and extracting the d-bag at the highest speed possible were the objective we'd all be rocking 48" pilot chutes! The amount of drag generated by your factory unit was carefully selected and tested. It works. Just make sure what you have is maintained in good condition - that's the key to increasing safety.

-Michael

So this might actually cause more issues on my old gear?


DUDE, are you a wingsuiter primarily??? Then get one. Don't over think it. And yes as someone pointed out, it has a slightly larger volume that MAY cause ware. I like mine. However as someone recently pointed out to me, it has sharp edges, so keep an eye on ware there...

[wasatchrider 0]

hackish

***
No energy needed, just order a new PC from a different supplier.

I've personally seen two choked PC's, both pilots were experienced. I know of a few more through friends. I can't tell you exactly how much a light handle will reduce the odds of an entanglement, but for ~$50 more (or 16 cents/jump @ 300 jumps) I'll stack the odds just a little bit more in my favor.

Depends on the rig. Some are sewn to the d-bag. As I outlined above, putting an untested aftermarket part is likely to be increasing the chances of a malfunction.

I showed my design to chief riggers and designers at 2 of the largest manufacturers. After discussing all the fine details about how their PC works within a system I realized that the design is not appropriate for the general skydiver.

A PDA type PC is not a new idea at all. If pulling the pin and extracting the d-bag at the highest speed possible were the objective we'd all be rocking 48" pilot chutes! The amount of drag generated by your factory unit was carefully selected and tested. It works. Just make sure what you have is maintained in good condition - that's the key to increasing safety.

-Michael

right but did they flare their wingsuit back up with almost no speed and a giant burble?

BASE 1519

[hackish 8]

wasatchrider

*** After discussing all the fine details about how their PC works within a system I realized that the design is not appropriate for the general skydiver.

right but did they flare their wingsuit back up with almost no speed and a giant burble?

Special activities can benefit from special gear. OP shows 125 jumps, so it is important that readers not be misled into thinking that they're better off using one. It's like putting racing brake pads on your street car. Race means better right?

-Michael

[pms07 3]

Quote

"After discussing all the fine details about how their PC works within a system I realized that the design is not appropriate for the general skydiver."

Why? Specifically, what makes this design "not appropriate" for the general skydiver on any specific rig? And what manufacturer says it is not appropriate? That's important in determining compatability...

I've spent some time with a couple rig manufacturers or designers recently and none have objected to the use of this design. The lightweight/carbon fiber handle with low weight and low bridle/pc malfunction potential make the SKySnatch a good option for many, especially those that wingsuit either occasionally or full-time.

I jump wingsuits mostly in recent years but also might do demos, rw, low jumps, etc. I've been jumping a skysnatch for at least 18 months and have no issue with this design for other disciplines and it seems to work fine. What am I missing that makes this design not appropriate for general use?

[Anachronist 2]

If it was better you would see swoopers using it, for sub terminal deployments on very sensitive light weight wings the PC is much more important.

Never heard anyone say "The SkySnatch makes my hop and pop deployments so much better." And that is precisely the situation it would be best suited for.

I'm not saying it is bad, but as mentioned, mostly marketing and riding the "BASE is best" train. Sure apex vented pilot chutes are more stable, and the shape probably produces more snatch force. When 50ft counts, sure, gimmie a snatch, but in skydiving it doesn't, and there is no evidence to suggest more snatch force = better deployment on a skydiving setup at any speed. More snatch force could equal more line dump and a more rapid deployment, which might mean asymmetrical inflation on an unvented wing. It could also mean a more violent/less stable extraction from a skydiving rig.

Again, not a bad thing, but also not worth the extra cash IMHO.

Don't forget, a regular PC can punch a closing pin through a bridle (sometimes 2 layers of it), I would consider that to be "sufficient extraction force."

[Anachronist 2]

Also, the oscillation thing is a joke for skydiving. As long as the bag doesn't rotate it doesn't matter because the whole canopy is released from the bag virtually instantaneously.

The reason BASE jumpers care about it is because there is no bag, the PC extracts the center cell and everything else follows, so the oscillation can pull the center cell around in relation to the rest of the canopy during deployment.

In BASE, the wing is unfolding and starts inflating before complete line stretch, in skydiving that is not the case.

[wildernessmedic 0]

Anachronist

If it was better you would see swoopers using it, for sub terminal deployments on very sensitive light weight wings the PC is much more important.

Never heard anyone say "The SkySnatch makes my hop and pop deployments so much better." And that is precisely the situation it would be best suited for.

I'm not saying it is bad, but as mentioned, mostly marketing and riding the "BASE is best" train. Sure apex vented pilot chutes are more stable, and the shape probably produces more snatch force. When 50ft counts, sure, gimmie a snatch, but in skydiving it doesn't, and there is no evidence to suggest more snatch force = better deployment on a skydiving setup at any speed. More snatch force could equal more line dump and a more rapid deployment, which might mean asymmetrical inflation on an unvented wing. It could also mean a more violent/less stable extraction from a skydiving rig.

Again, not a bad thing, but also not worth the extra cash IMHO.

Don't forget, a regular PC can punch a closing pin through a bridle (sometimes 2 layers of it), I would consider that to be "sufficient extraction force."

Apex PCs are this design? Guess theres no need to replace them with a squirrel snatch on mine.