Gawain 0 #1 October 21, 2005 I was listening to the Sean Hannity Radio show the other day. He, Tony Snow and Will Press were discussing a few different issues and one thing they touched on, but didn't really get in-depth with was what they considered to be the founding document of the United States. Will Press said it was the Constitution. Sean Hannity said it was the Declaration of Independence. I happen to think it is the Declaration of Independence. I hold that opinion because it was this document that allowed the formation of the original thirteen colonies to unite as a single nation and form a Congressional Congress some years later. I also hold this opinion because the Declaration is continuously celebrated each year on the 4th of July as our nation's birthday. What do you think and why?So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ReBirth 0 #2 October 21, 2005 The Declaration was our divorce from Georgie. Until the Constitution we were a bunch of renegade states in a power vacuum. If not for the Constitution, this nation would not exist as it does. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tso-d_chris 0 #3 October 21, 2005 QuoteI happen to think it is the Declaration of Independence. I hold that opinion because it was this document that allowed the formation of the original thirteen colonies to unite as a single nation and form a Congressional Congress some years later. I also hold this opinion because the Declaration is continuously celebrated each year on the 4th of July as our nation's birthday. So what value do you place on the Articles of Confederation? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #4 October 21, 2005 QuoteSo what value do you place on the Articles of Confederation? High value, but I think it's a framework for the Constitution, not for the formation of an American Nation.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tink1717 2 #5 October 21, 2005 The DOI accomplished the task of gaining international recognition. The Constitution established the government and its roles and responsibilities.Skydivers don't knock on Death's door. They ring the bell and runaway... It really pisses him off. -The World Famous Tink. (I never heard of you either!!) AA #2069 ASA#33 POPS#8808 Swooo 1717 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #6 October 21, 2005 Magna Carta (1215)... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #7 October 21, 2005 QuoteMagna Carta (1215) I would've thought you would think along the lines of The Salic Law. So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,120 #8 October 21, 2005 The Declaration of Independence was our severing document; it separated us from Great Britain. The Constitution was our founding document -- it forms us as we are. We were still a country, but a different entity in many ways, during the years of the Articles of Confederation. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tso-d_chris 0 #9 October 21, 2005 QuoteThe Declaration of Independence was our severing document; it separated us from Great Britain. The Constitution was our founding document -- it forms us as we are. We were still a country, but a different entity in many ways, during the years of the Articles of Confederation. TY Wendy. That's exactly what I was too lazy busy to type. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ReBirth 0 #10 October 21, 2005 Hey..that's what I said...just not as ellokwint... suksink... clear. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,120 #11 October 21, 2005 QuoteHey..that's what I said...just not as ellokwint... suksink... clear Where do you think I got the idea from? OK, so maybe I thought it anyway, but you did say it. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
markd_nscr986 0 #12 October 21, 2005 or the Hammurabic CodeMarc SCR 6046 SCS 3004 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tso-d_chris 0 #13 October 21, 2005 QuoteHey..that's what I said...just not as ellokwint... suksink... clear. Yeah, I know. But she has her profile filled out. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ReBirth 0 #14 October 21, 2005 Yeah...but she's also a 14 year old boy is San Salvador that weighs 300 pounds (sorry Wendy) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jenfly00 0 #15 October 21, 2005 I'm just wondering if, decades from now, the question will be what do you consider to be the founding document? The Patriot Act or the New Constitution?----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,120 #16 October 21, 2005 Como aprendiste esto? Era para ser mi secreto!!! Ahora tendre que hacer algo horrible a su cuerpo! Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ReBirth 0 #17 October 21, 2005 Damn..I was just about to post the same thing. Came on here to say the Patriot Act is really the founding document of the country we're NOW living in, and you beat me to it. Drat! Foiled again! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tso-d_chris 0 #18 October 21, 2005 QuoteYeah...but she's also a 14 year old boy is San Salvador that weighs 300 pounds Nah...It's D.B. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #19 October 21, 2005 QuoteThe Declaration of Independence was our severing document; it separated us from Great Britain. The Constitution was our founding document -- it forms us as we are. We were still a country, but a different entity in many ways, during the years of the Articles of Confederation. I disagree. A constitution was not "required" per se to solidify the Declaration of Independence as an American Nation. Whereas a Constitution can only be applied to a sovereign state. One is not dependent on the other, that's my view.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Johnnyskydive 0 #20 October 21, 2005 And to think, we signed the DOI to get AWAY from King George!! History repeats itself! Johnny Skydive! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #21 October 21, 2005 The preamble says, "We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union." It is the Constitution that is the foundation of our country. We had a structure under Britain before. The Declaration of Independence was the wrecking ball that tore down the previous structure. The US then operated for a little over ten years under the Articles of Confederation. The problem was, it didn't work too well. It only took ten years to find out it was unworkable. So the great thinkers and leaders of the time convened to start something new and different. The country then became based on the Constitution in 1787. The DOI didn't do anything other than destroy the old. (editorial comment: if you read it, it's mainly a gripe session directed at George) The Constitution built something entirely new - the Constitution, not the DOI, is the user's manual for our government (and it's shorter than the one for my damned dictaphone, too). It is the Constitution that is our guide. The DOI is merely a recitation of the American ethos, and a pretty nicely worded bitch-out of Britain and the king. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #22 October 21, 2005 QuoteThe preamble says, "We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union." It is the Constitution that is the foundation of our country. Again here, I disagree. The context is "form a more perfect union", meaning the union is there, therefore we are attempting to make it more perfect.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #23 October 21, 2005 QuoteA constitution was not "required" per se to solidify the Declaration of Independence as an American Nation. Whereas a Constitution can only be applied to a sovereign state. One is not dependent on the other, that's my view. The problem with the DOI is that it didnt' say how the American system would work. It just said, "We ain't Britain any more. Here's why we are seceding." The Constitution is how we work. Saying the the DOI is the foundation of America seems counter to what the founding fathers said in teh preamble - they admit to forming smething new. Out with the old Articles of Confederation (just like the DOI did to England) and in with the new. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tso-d_chris 0 #24 October 21, 2005 QuoteI disagree. A constitution was not "required" per se to solidify the Declaration of Independence as an American Nation. Whereas a Constitution can only be applied to a sovereign state. One is not dependent on the other, that's my view. Before the Articles of Confederation we were 13 individual nation-states. The Articles of Confederation did little to change that. It wasn't until ratification of the Constitution that we had a federal government to unify the states into a single coherent nation-state. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GTAVercetti 0 #25 October 21, 2005 QuoteQuoteThe preamble says, "We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union." It is the Constitution that is the foundation of our country. Again here, I disagree. The context is "form a more perfect union", meaning the union is there, therefore we are attempting to make it more perfect. Yes, but that union was under the Articles of Confederation, not DOI. DOI does not make any sort of nation or tell its configuration. It just declares independence from Britain for the Indepedant states. THe only thing bringing them together in any sort of union is the agreement to break away. In that, they are united.Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
