Jane Goodall

[miked10270 0]

Human & Chimp behaviour really is similar.

If a (male) chimp is being threatened or chased or corneredby a more dominant male, then the subservient chimp will pick up a baby for protection from the dominant!

Likewise, as a cop, when you're going to arrest someone (and I'm sure other cops will bear me out on this) and there's a child in the room, then your arrestee, especially if he's male, will pick the child up & hold it - almost as if this stops him being arrested!!!

Ever since I saw that on a documentary I could never keep a straight face when an arrestee did this.

Mike.

Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable.

Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode.

[Guest]

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This is interesting. I'm wondering if Goodall does not particularly like flash photography because it affects her night vision. This would tend to be a negative for someone who has a passion for observation.

FallRate

That is an astute observation in its own right - well done.

mh

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"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."

[crwtom 0]

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Has anyone heard of Jane Goodall? "She is the world's foremost authority on chimpanzees."

one of the first (if not the first) humans to ever be accepted
into an ape community. Lived for almost three decades in the
jungles of Tanzania observing chimp tribes. The stories of Dave
Greybeard, Fiffi, Flo, and all the others beat any human fiction
or soap. Goodall is an icon of primatology, athropology, philosophy,
and beyond.

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So does anyone have any questions you want me to ask her? I'm sure everyone there believes in evolution other than me which is usually the case of a lot of people I take pictures of.

Not direcly related to her studies but probably the first thing she
would like to talk to a press reporter about is endangerment and
preservation. What measures should african and western societies
or governments take to avoid the extinction of chimps and other
great apes throughpoaching, land development, etc.

Another thing that seems to stir anyone reading her books is
the fact that aggression and cruelty are apparent inherent to
primate/humanoid behavior. There are of course those remarkable
accounts of tribal warfare between different chimp tribes, or
de facto assassinations for gain of power. There are also accounts
in Goodall's books of discriminationa and rejection of members
of the tribe who were somehow "different" - one because he had
human-style white eye balls, another because he was paralized
as a result of polio. A bunch of questions can be derived from
that - either philosophical about human nature in general or also
contemporary political (terrorism, racism, ...)

Finally, one thing she gets asked a lot about are animal
experiments and their jsutification. Chimps are genetically closest
to us so that any experiments on them are be more significant
than tests on any other species. Her point of view is , very roughly
and as I understand it, that she's not militantly opposed to
testing on chimps for the right reasons. Her biggest point,
however, is that chimps are highly social animals but are often kept
in isolation in their captive environment before or during the
experiments. It's something she considers particularly cruel.



Hope that helps, T

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Fear causes hesitation, and hesitation will cause your worst fears to come true

[littlestranger 0]

damn I thought Jane Goodall was dead. apparently she's very much alive...

http://www.deadoraliveinfo.com/dead.nsf/gnames-nf/Goodall+Jane

carry on.

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[Andrewwhyte 1]

Maybe you were thinking of Dian Fossey. She was a gorilla researcher who was murdered (presumably by poachers) in Rwanda in 1985. The movie 'Gorillas in the Mist' was about her.

[wmw999 2,116]

One of my favorite little vignettes, as quoted from wikipedia (hey, I'm on a business trip, and Google is about all I have)

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Far Side controversy

One of Gary Larson's The Far Side cartoons shows two chimpanzees grooming. One finds a human hair on the other and inquires about "doing a little more 'research' with that Jane Goodall tramp?"

The Goodall Institute thought this was in bad taste, and had their lawyers draft a letter to Larson and his distribution syndicate, in which they described the cartoon as an "atrocity". They were stymied, however, by Goodall herself, who revealed that she found the cartoon amusing. Since then, all profits from sales of a shirt featuring this cartoon go to the Goodall Institute.

Goodall wrote a preface to The Far Side Gallery 5, detailing the "Jane Goodall Tramp" controversy, and also praising The Far Side for Larson's creative ideas, which often compare and contrast the behavior of humans and animals. Larson also described the controversy in detail in The PreHistory of the Far Side (p.167).

In 1988 Gary Larson visited Gombe National Park and was attacked by Frodo, a chimp described by Goodall as a "bully". Larson escaped with cuts and bruises.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[riddler 0]

Dr. Goodall has been featured in many National Geographic articles and a few PBS documentaries.

For those of us with shorter attention spans, I suggest logging onto your Netflix account, and renting the following film:

http://www.netflix.com/MovieDisplay?movieid=60023727&trkid=189533

Or if you're lucky, it may be playing at your local IMAX.

Edit - I don't remember if I saw this in this movie, or another special, but I was fascinated with the Chimpanzees waging war. I guess the younger adult males of one group started roaming the borders in small packs, looking for isolated chimps from the neighboring tribe. If they found any alone, they would maul them to death. I thought it was a fascinating look at organized warfare in non-humans, and I would be tempted to ask about this if I ever met her. From

http://www.lessonsforhope.org/abc/show_description.asp?abc_id=47

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Dr. Jane's once peaceful-seeming chimpanzees were heavily engaged in what amounted to a sort of primitive warfare during the years of 1974-1977. It had begun when the chimpanzee community began to divide. Seven adult males and three mothers and their offspring began spending longer and longer periods of time in the southern part of the range over which the whole community roamed. By 1972, it was obvious that these chimpanzees had formed an entirely new and separate community, which became known as Kahama. When males of the two communities encountered one another in the overlapping zone between the two, they threatened one another in a typical territorial behavior. However, a series of deadly brutal attacks perpetrated by the powerful Kasekela community on individuals of the Kahama community followed. It was known as the Four-Year War at Gombe

Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD

[Sopheavy 0]

My editor made arrangements for me to come a little earlier while there's still enough light outside.
I'm nervous because her ex husband is a well known photographer and she probably knows more than I do about photography.

I was really excited until I found out this morning that it’s not a small group but a large group of about 50-75 people, and most of them are socialites! I don’t like taking pics of socialites in one location especially when it’s probably going to be kinda packed since it’s at someone’s house. Because they all want to get their pics taken and not just one pic, they want to pose and look pretty first. And I have to make them happy or else my editor will hear about it because they’re the people our magazine target.

So, I will probably be able to talk to Jane only briefly since there’s going to others bombarding her with ooz and ahhhs. It's this Friday!

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If you want to see the rainbow, you gotta put up with the storm. God bless! :)

[newsstand 0]

I have been aware of Jane Goodall since I was in my teens. By your picture I am probably old enough to be your father. This means I have known about her since before you were born. I have also been in to photography for almost as long. Was even a professional for a short period of time.

You have a lot of learning ahead of you. Advice I have seen in this thread tells you there was no reason to get in ahead of time while the light was still good unless Ms.Goodall is a total freak about flash.

While my attempt at professional photography was not a success (studios and repetitious crap) I wish you the best. Treat people like people, not like trash or like celebs and you will get your best results.

"Truth is tough. It will not break, like a bubble, at a touch; nay, you may kick it about all day like a football, and it will be round and full at evening."
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes

[Sopheavy 0]

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You have a lot of learning ahead of you. Advice I have seen in this thread tells you there was no reason to get in ahead of time while the light was still good unless Ms.Goodall is a total freak about flash.
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Yes, I defintely agree, I have a lot of learning to do. I enjoy the learning process though. I'm 24 by the way. I found out a few days ago that one of the reason why Dr.Goodall does not like flash is because it bother her eyes. I've made arrangements with the hostess to come 30 minutes early so there is still some light outside but the way the weather has been, I might have to see if I can come earlier than 30 minutes. I'm just worried that people there will want to take pictures with her and not know that she doesn't like flashes. I am reading her book "Through A Window" so I will understand more of her research and not look like a complete fool. If time allow, I usually always do some research first before I go on assignment, whether it be people, places, or events. It has helped me out a lot.

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If you want to see the rainbow, you gotta put up with the storm. God bless! :)

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[Nightingale 0]

I wonder if they'd let you set up a studio type light instead of using a flash.

[amy 0]

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I'm sure everyone there believes in evolution other than me which is usually the case of a lot of people I take pictures of.

You might be surprised. Jane Goodall is actually a quite religious person. I'd suggest perusing her latest book, "A Reason for Hope" if you're interested in understanding her religious views.

Also, her most recent work is primarily involved with conservation and preservation (althought the chimp research continues), mostly through education of African peoples. Check out http://www.janegoodall.org/ as well; they do some pretty amazing work with local populations on reforesting projects and the like. I think a lot of her world view and feelings about our need to be good stewards of the earth come from deeply held spiritual beliefs. She may not be the godless person you think she is.

And have fun at this thing - she's really an amazing person.

Amy

[Sopheavy 0]

I'm nervous!!!!!!!!!! It's tonight!!!!! I drove by the house that is hosting her last night to make sure I don't get lost. I think I drove into someone's yard last night since it was sooo dark. I got scared too because I was afraid some security guards were going to come out and the house sits on a dead end.

No, I can't set up any studio lights.
I have her book "through a window" but I haven't even had time to read it yet!

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If you want to see the rainbow, you gotta put up with the storm. God bless! :)

[amy 0]

If you'll forgive me, I want to quote one of my favorite Jane Goodall quotes for you. It's quite long, but I'm arrogant enough to think that, as an introduction to the person you're going to meet tonight, it might help you. It's from her book "A Reason for Hope," and starts as she's describing an afternoon in the jungle observing one of the chimp families.

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Lost in awe at the beauty around me, I must have slipped into a heightened awareness. It is hard - impossible, really - to put into words the moment of truth that suddenly came upon me the. Even the mystics are unable to describe their brief flashes of spiritual ecstasy. It seemed to me, as I struggled afterward to recall the experience, that self was utterly absent: I and the chimpanzees, the earth and trees and air, seemed to merge, to become one with the spirit power of life itself. The air was filled with a feathered symphony, the evensong of birds. I heard new frequencies in their music and also in the singing insects' voices - notes so high and sweet I was amazed. Never had I been so intensely aware of the shape, the color of the individual leaves, the varied patterns of the veins that made each one unique. Scents were clear as well, easily identifiable: fermenting, overripe fruit; waterlogged earth; cold, wet bark; the damp odor of chimpanzee hair and, yes, my own too. And the aromatic scent of young, crushed leaves was almost overpowering. I sensed a new presence, then saw a bushbuck, quietly browsing upwind, his spiraled horns gleaming and his chestnut coat dark with rain.

(. . . )

Later, as I sat by my little fire, cooking my dinner of beans, tomatoes, and an egg, I was still lost in the wonder of my experience. Yes, I thought, there are many windows through which we humans, searching for meaning, can look out into the world around us. There are those carved out by Western science, their panes polished by a succession of brilliant minds. Through them we can see ever farther, ever more clearly, into areas which until recently were beyond human knowledge. Through such a scientific window I had been taught to observe the chimpanzees. For more than twenty-five years I had sought, through careful recording and critical analysis, to piece together their complex social behavior, to understand the workings of their minds. And this had not only helped us to better understand their place in nature but also helped us to understand a little better some aspects of our own human behavior, our own place in the natural world.

Yet there are other windows through which we humans can look out into the world around us, windows through which the mystics and holy men of the East, and the founders of the great world religions, have gazed as they searched for the meaning and purpose of our life on earth, not only in the wondrous beauty of the world, but also in its darkness and ugliness. And those Masters contemplated the truths that they saw, not with their minds only but with their hearts and souls too. From these revelations came the spiritual essence of the great scriptures, the holy books, and the most beautiful mystic poems and writings. That afternoon , it had been as though an unseen hand had drawn back a curtain, and for the briefest moment, I had seen through such a window. In a flash of "outsight" I had known timelessness and quiet ecstasy, sensed a truth of which mainstream science is merely a small fraction. And I knew that the revelation would be with me for the rest of my life, imperfectly remembered yet always within. A source of strength on which I could draw when life seemed harsh or cruel or desperate.

How sad that so many people seem to think that science and religion are mutually exclusive. Science has used modern technology and modern techniques to uncover so much about the formation and the development of life-forms on Planet Earth and about the solar system of which our little world is but a minute part (. . . ) Truly the human intellect is awesome. Alas, all of these amazing discoveries have led to a belief that every wonder of the natural world and of the universe can, in the end, be understood through the logic and the reasoning of a finite mind. And so, for many, science has taken the place of religion. It was not some intangible God who created the universe, they argue, it was the Big Bang. Physics, chemistry, and evolutionary biology can explain the start of the universe and appearance and progress of life on earth, they say. To believe in God, in the human soul, and in life after death is simply a desperate and foolish attempt to give meaning to our lives.

But not all scientists believe thus. There are quantum physicists who have concluded that the concept of God is not, after all, merely wishful thinking. Physicist John C. Eccles, although the felt that questions regarding the human soul were matters beyond science, warned scientists that they should not give definite negative answers when asked about the continuity of the conscious self after death. There are those exploring the human brain who feel that no matter how much they discover about this extraordinary structure it will never add up to a complete understanding of the human mind - that the whole is, after all, greater than the sum of the parts. (. . . )

As I continued to lie gazing at the star-studded sky, reluctant to move inside, I though about the young man I had met during the six-week tour I had just finished. He had a holiday job, working as a bellhop in the big hotel where I was staying in Dallas, Texas. (. . . ) As I stood there, thinking about the future - theirs, mine, the world's - I heard a diffident voice:

"Excuse me Doctor - aren't you Jane Goodall?" the bellhop was very young, very fresh-faced. But he looked worried. Partly because he felt he should not be disturbing me, but partly, it transpired, because his mind was indeed troubled. He had a question to ask me. So we went and sat on some back stairs, away from the glittering groups and hand-holding couples, and talked about God and creation.

He had watched all my documentaries, read my books. He was fascinated and he thought that what I did was great. But I talked about evolution. Was I religious? Did I believe in God? If so, how did that square with evolution? Had we really descended from chimpanzees? All these questions, asked with frank sincerity and genuine concern.

And so I tried to answer him as truthfully as I could, to explain my own beliefs. I told him that no one thought humans had descended from chimpanzees. I explained that I did believe in Darwinian evolution and told him of my time at Olduvai, when I had held the remains of extinct creatures in my hands. (. . . ) I told him I believed that millions of years ago there had been a primitive, apelike, humanlike creature, one branch of which had gone on to become the chimpanzee, another branch of which had eventually led to us.

"But that doesn't mean I don't believe in God," I said. And I told him something of my beliefs, and those of my family. How my grandfather had been a Congregational minister. I told him that I had always thought that the description of God creating the world in seven days might well have been an attempt to explain evolution in a parable. In that case, each of the days would have been several million years.

"And then, perhaps, God saw that a living being had evolved that was suitable for his purpose. Homo sapiens had the brain, the mind, the potential. Perhaps," I said, "that was when God breathed the Spirit into the first Man and the first Woman and filled them with the Holy Ghost."

(. . . )

I ended by telling him that it honestly didn't matter how we humans got to be the way we are, whether evolution of special creation was responsible. What mattered and mattered desperately was out future development. Were we going to go on destroying God's creation, fighting each other, hurting the other creatures of His planet? Or were we going to find ways to live in greater harmony with each other and with the natural world? That, I told him, was what was important.

Holy shit that ended up long! But I hope it helps since you don't have time to read the book.

Amy

[Sopheavy 0]

Amy,

I thank you with heart felt sincerety. That is an awesome excerpt from Jane and I am glad you posted it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It has opened my eyes. THANK YOU A MILLION!!!!

P.S. I didn't get to read your post until after the event but I already found out during the event that she's a very hopeful and inspirational lady but the quote you posted makes me admire her even more now. I don't care what religion or faith she believes in, I just know now that she is a very compassionate and passionate person who has given up all of herself to help animals and people and best of all, she's sooooo real!

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If you want to see the rainbow, you gotta put up with the storm. God bless! :)