Container Comparison

[DonScott 0]

I'm a student looking into getting a new harness sometime in the future. So, I was looking through threads about different containers and different people's opinions.

One thing that i noticed came up a lot was price, and rightly so. I decided to compare the prices and normalize the comparisons for different features.

It's not perfect, but I found it interesting and thought you all might as well.

Any suggestions for improvements or different comparison points are welcome.

[aulanov 0]

Why are you only looking at Skyhook when different manufacturers offer other implementations of MARD as well?

[DonScott 0]

aulanov

Why are you only looking at Skyhook when different manufacturers offer other implementations of MARD as well?

That's a fair point. The reason I didn't take into consideration any other MARD options was because, and this is purely my impression and with my experience can't be worth much, the other options had not been out for too many years and as such were not something that I would be interested in adding on to a container.

Now, I'm sure they have done quite a bit of testing and my opinion could be completely wrong, but I just would like something that may save my life to have more time and real world testing.

EDIT: But you're right I probably should have taken that into consideration.

[ChrisHoward 8]

aulanov

Why are you only looking at Skyhook when different manufacturers offer other implementations of MARD as well?

Something to consider when comparing MARDs from various manufacturers is that only the Skyhook features a Collins lanyard.

[KellyF 16]

DonScott

***Why are you only looking at Skyhook when different manufacturers offer other implementations of MARD as well?

That's a fair point. The reason I didn't take into consideration any other MARD options was because, and this is purely my impression and with my experience can't be worth much, the other options had not been out for too many years and as such were not something that I would be interested in adding on to a container.

Now, I'm sure they have done quite a bit of testing and my opinion could be completely wrong, but I just would like something that may save my life to have more time and real world testing.

I'm not going to tell you what features are worth shopping for and which aren't, but before you rule out another MARD or standard RSL, talk to some tandem instructors that have had multiple cutaways on MARD equipped tandems, and ask them how many times the MARD functioned as a MARD as opposed to a standard RSL. It may not be as often as you think.

[JerryBaumchen 1,046]

Hi Don,

Quote

It's not perfect

Those listed do not all offer SPACER mat'l.

VSE offers a 'mesh foam' that is quite comfortable.

Jerry Baumchen

[DonScott 0]

KellyF

I'm not going to tell you what features are worth shopping for and which aren't, but before you rule out another MARD or standard RSL, talk to some tandem instructors that have had multiple cutaways on MARD equipped tandems, and ask them how many times the MARD functioned as a MARD as opposed to a standard RSL. It may not be as often as you think.

Thanks for the reply. I'll take your advice on that and it brings up an interesting point that I hadn't thought about. Just to be clear, I hadn't considered ruling out a standard RSL.

[DonScott 0]

JerryBaumchen

Hi Don,

Quote

It's not perfect

Those listed do not all offer SPACER mat'l.

VSE offers a 'mesh foam' that is quite comfortable.

Jerry Baumchen

Hi Jerry,

Thanks for the input. I realized while i was doing the comparisons that that was the case, however I didn't realize that the mesh was their version of padding. I had thought it was just a change in the cover material. I'll have to include that to make everything more comparable. Much appreciated.

[sammielu 3]

If you don't know why you do/don't want a safety feature like a MARD, you're not ready to make that decision. Talk to your local rigger who will be doing your repacks and get their advice on what rigs/manufacturers/options they prefer and why - your canopy choices are a part of this decision making process as well (what will fit into each rig that will be comfortable for your body type and appropriate fit for main/reserve packing). Also discuss whether chest articulation makes sense for your body combined with the rig (size) you want to buy. It may be a moot point for you.

PS. Not every available option is right for you!!!! Sometimes people check all the boxes and get things they don't want. B-12 buckles, extra wide leg pads (a no for most women and anyone with skinny legs), and extra long chest straps are an example.

[chuckakers 369]

Good move analyzing rigs by feature and price, but there are some things that I suggest you consider that a spreadsheet can't present. In particular I'm speaking of the Curv.

The Curv is the first rig to offer anything really new in a while. Sandy Reid, owner of Curv manufacturer Rigging Innovations, is responsible for numerous innovations in rigs including tuck tabs that replaced velcro on riser covers and pin covers, the articulated harness that added rings at the hip and chest for a better fit, and most recently the "bio curv" and "bio yoke" offered exclusively on the Curv. I jump a Curv and can honestly say it is - by far - the most comfortable and functional rig I have worn in more than 30 years of jumping.

I'm sure you have read about these features so I won't bother to explain them. My point is that there are certain things about the Curv that can't be compared to other rigs. I'm sure the same thing holds true with other brands, so rather than just compare listed features and prices, I suggest you also get opinions on things like comfort and functionality from people who jump the various brands.

Welcome to the family, Don and always know that there are many of us here on dz.com including me that are always willing to help.

Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

[CrashProne 4]

More importantly, as a student you may find it makes more sense for you to start looking for your "first" rig, and not your end all, be all "last" rig. This first rig may only be with you for a hundred jumps or so, depending on your progression.

Most would steer you towards finding a reliable, serviceable used rig with a reasonably good fit. Ideally, it will hold that nice big canopy you'll use to transition off of student gear and an even larger reserve. Buy it right, don't abuse it too much, and you should be able to get most of your money back out of it when you're ready for whatever comes next.

Most people just starting out, myself included, haven't yet figured out their long term path in this hobby. You'll want to figure that out before you drop big coin on a brand new rig.

[degeneration 5]

Not sure I quite understand/get your "discount/premium to average" bit.

Looking at some of the figures I think they may be wrong.

For example Curv, only looking at the normalised for both figure. It costs $2549, and the average is $2554, which you then state is -4.2%.

Think it is actually -0.19%.

I get the Icon to be -6.6%, VSE +10.6%, the Wing is more expensive than average in the normalised for both, yet you have it as -1.9%... think it should be +2.2%. Jav +3.4%, Mirage -1.3%, Vector -8.0%.

I see wrong percentage figures on the normalised for articulation row as well.

The first two rows appear correct.

Sky Switches - Affordable stills camera tongue switches and conversion adaptors, supporting various brands of camera (Canon, Sony, Nikon, Panasonic).

[Remster 24]

Quote

I jump a Curv and can honestly say it is - by far - the most comfortable and functional rig I have worn in more than 30 years of jumping.

Same here. By far, the most comfortable. I've been jumping for a while, and I still catch myself doing a double take sometime on exit wondering if I have my rig when wearing the Curv.

Also, no-nonsense pricing: it includes everything (except black hardware -purely cosmetic; and the slider keeper).

PS: non-sponsored jumper here.

Remster

[Slimrn 6]

I can add support for the comfort of the Curv. I have jumped new mirages will great padding, etc. but the bio yoke is a step up in comfort all around. I am non sponsored and looking to buy a second curv to replace my turn rig.

[timrf79 0]

When I started jumping, I also was looking at new gear.
Then was able to find a used rig.
Admitted I do jump a lot, but my first rig was back on the market after 7 month.
If I would have bought new, I would have lost a ton of money on it.
This way I was able to minimize my loss.

Currently I am trying to figure out if Rig #3 can be my "forever" rig, which i would then custom order. (It may or may not be, due to downsizing)

[ufk22 32]

Bill Booth has been innovating and revolutionizing gear and safety forever.
Support UPT.
Also, one of the least expensive rigs, time proven.

This is the paradox of skydiving. We do something very dangerous, expose ourselves to a totally unnecesary risk, and then spend our time trying to make it safer.

[DonScott 0]

Thanks for the input and the welcome! I think your points are well founded. I really just made this for my own curiosity and figured I'd share it for other people who might like to see it as well.

[DonScott 0]

Nice catch! Thanks for reviewing!

I've updated the spreadsheet to include that and mesh foam on the infinity.

[DonScott 0]

Thanks for the advice! It's probably the route I'll go, but I'm a good sized guy and it may not be that easy to find one that fits me right. In which case, new container and used other gear will have to be the route I go, but that's a concern for down the road.

[Maddingo 21]

I have a question of my own.

Regarding leg straps, which are the most comfortable? Which company produces the widest, softest leg straps? This is the only issue for me after deployment. Those legstraps bite you in the legs hard sometimes. Are there any strapping techniques or is it just the way it is... uncomfortable. I love canopy flying but before I buy my own rig I wanna know which system has the most comfortable set up.

I'm a big guy 193cm so it is possible the borrowed rigs fit me so badly the straps slide up too far.

[Deimian 43]

That probably a combination of gear that doesn't fit you properly, and lack of proper position under canopy. Talk to some good canopy pilot in your DZ about how to "seat" in your harness as opposed to hang from it.

[Maddingo 21]

Well I get better canopy rides and worse, I always find it more comfortable if I contract legs to a sit position, then it's fine.

But I feel that should be my natural position when I relax my legs not straining the muscles.

[sammielu 3]

Leg straps allll the way tight to begin with means left shift during opening = more comfortable for openings.

As a canopy course will teach you, a seated position under canopy means you're not adding leg input unless you want too = more control. The easiest way to get there is to grab your leg straps under canopy and shift them forward so your body is naturally sitting in the harness vs you doing a situp the entire flight down and manually holding your legs in this position. It takes some practice, but now I just shimy my but back until I'm sit ting and comfortable.

Also being in shape helps in all of skydiving, including harness comfort. Squishy thighs = more squish to slide around and be uncomfortable.

[Maddingo 21]

Secure fastening is not a problem I always make them tight.

I also thought about pushing them back down a bit as you mentioned, but I'm a bit scared of accidentally pushing them down to the knees. :D

[flyngrudy18 0]

I' bought my Curv in 2013, it's my second rig, before I' had a Mirage G4.
I' love my rig, it stay attached to the body during free-fly moves, and is very confortable. My next rig will be another Curv, period.

Rudy D'Alessandro