CanuckInUSA 0 #26 July 21, 2005 Christianty tries to tell us that the earth and everything on it was created in 7 days. But what about the rest of the universe? Oh back in the good old days when the bible was written, there was no science so humans were lead to believe that we were the center of the universe (remember when humans thought the world was flat). But now that we have science, Christians have changed their message to attempt to explain the bigger universe that we know (of course Christians still claim that we are the center of the universe despite the fact that we are in suburbia in our own galaxy far far away from all of the action in the other galaxies. Sounds like an excuse to me. So I'm with you on many of your issues. I'm agnostic and I only pick on Christianity because I know it (I was raised to be a Christian, not by choice, but because I was forced into it by my step-monster ... or was that step-father). I would love to pick on the other religions as well, but I don't know them very well. There may be a creator out there (call it God if you want). The universe is one hell of a big place that just boggles my mind and I just think it's ironic that humans still believe they are the center of the universe. Oh and as far as your concern of people remembering us. Shit I could die today and I'd be willing to bet that more people would be celebrating than weeping. So you better believe that I will be forgotten soon after I die. But I'm okay with this. I know I'm nothing more than the smallest of small entities living for an incredibly short time in a universe estimated to be what? Six or so billion years old? Oh but I forgot, the bible tells us that the world and the universe were created only a few thousand years ago despite all the physical evidence that we have to say otherwise and Christians proclaim the bible to be the truth and everything else is wrong and all non-believers will be rotting in hell. I'm okay with someone having a personal relationship with the possible creator of the universe (once again call this creator God if you must), but man made religions are a joke. Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydivermom 0 #27 July 21, 2005 Which position would you want to find yourself in? Believe and live for God your whole life and find out He doesn't exist in the end (you've lost nothing). Not believe and live for God your whole life and find out He does exist in the end (you've lost everything).Mrs. WaltAppel All things work together for good to them that love God...Romans 8:28 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 93 #28 July 21, 2005 Ya don't know Nietzsche? You need to study your philosophers young man! Here's some help: The Philosopher's Song Immanuel Kant was a real pissant Who was very rarely stable Heidegger, Heidegger was a boozy beggar Who could think you under the table David Hume could out consume Schopenhauer and Hegel And Wittgenstein was a beery swine Who was just as schloshed as Schlegel There's nothing Nietzsche couldn't teach ya 'Bout the raising of the wrist Socrates, himself, was permanently pissed John Stuart Mill, of his own free will On half a pint of shandy was particularly ill Plato they say, could stick it away Half a crate of whiskey every day Aristotle, Aristotle was a bugger for the bottle Hobbes was fond of his dram And René Descartes was a drunken fart "I drink, therefore I am" Yes, Socrates, himself, is particularly missed A lovely little thinker But a bugger when he's pissedPeople are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #29 July 21, 2005 I think some of the comments here (& in other threads) are a good demonstration of CS Lewis's observation that people who wish to attack Christianity first set up a version of it suitable for a six-year-old, and then use that as the object of their attack. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Muenkel 0 #30 July 21, 2005 QuoteChris--I was NOT directing that at you at all, and it wasn't intended to be mean-spirited in any way. When I read what you said, then that's what I thought. That's all. That explains it. Thanks. _________________________________________ Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #31 July 21, 2005 QuoteLet's face it people, we live in a Godless world. Sucks to be you. I wish you knew what I know. Without the faith that I have learned and come to know as truth their would be an emptiness in my life like no other. I went to a church I have never been to in my life about 6 months ago and a man walked up to me. A blind man. He grabbed both of my hands and said "God wants you to know that he will be the father you have always longed for if you would only let him". He walked away. I found out later that this man is an actual profit. Interesting. No one but God knew what was on my mind at that time and I had not shared that sadness with anyone, ever. God is very much alive. God is very much real. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LawnDart21 0 #32 July 21, 2005 Somewhere in Germany, in a bar, on the bathroom wall it says: "God is dead. - F. Nietzsche" and just below it, it says: "Nietzsche is dead. - God" -- My other ride is a RESERVE. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #33 July 21, 2005 Quoteman made religions are a joke. I agree. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #34 July 21, 2005 QuoteWhat else baffles me is how some people feel the need to prove to others that there is or is not a God. Why does it matter to one person what another person believes? Why do people think that their thinking is so superior to the next person's that they will vehemently argue for something that they cannot prove or validate except through their own processes? nicely put I do believe, but I think it's probably more rational not to.there is an example of true faith ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #35 July 21, 2005 Quotethis man is an actual profit. Interesting experience. The spell check (prophet/profit) could have multiple meanings for those with some spare time. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
littlestranger 0 #36 July 21, 2005 I've thought many of the things you've written and I think religion has a twofold purpose: It keeps the masses in line by providing them with a moral code. It provides solace by providing answers to those that fear the uncertainty of death. Personally, I don't know what to think other than I believe that we are energy and energy is never lost. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Alias 0 #37 July 21, 2005 QuoteWhat I think mankind needs is a real dose of humility. Exactly! Carpe Diem Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WrongWay 0 #38 July 21, 2005 Quote It keeps the masses in line by providing them with a moral code. It provides solace by providing answers to those that fear the uncertainty of death. First off, is mankind really that naturally cruel to require a punishment/reward system to instill morality? Yes, it provides answers, but why make up answers just to have an answer? Wouldn't you rather not know than know you're wrong? QuotePersonally, I don't know what to think other than I believe that we are energy and energy is never lost That makes a hell of a lot more sense than any of this. Wrong Way D #27371 Mal Manera Rodriguez Cajun Chicken Ø Hellfish #451 The wiser wolf prevails. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
littlestranger 0 #39 July 21, 2005 QuoteFirst off, is mankind really that naturally cruel to require a punishment/reward system to instill morality? I think so. QuoteYes, it provides answers, but why make up answers just to have an answer? Wouldn't you rather not know than know you're wrong? The individuals who accept the answers do so on faith. Something I find incomprehensible, yet envy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darius11 12 #40 July 21, 2005 WW it depends how you want to see things. Most religions are manipulated for political or financial gain. The world does have a lot of horrible things it always has. Believe it or not it was a lot worst in the past. You don’t have villages being raped and pliiged as you did hundreds of years ago. Why would you think we are all destend to do something important? There are billions of people on this planet. Offcourse most of us will not be remembered after we have passed. That is not a bad thing. Do you think death is the end? I don’t. I believe in the spirit I think the more we listen to it the louder it will get, and therefor easier to hear. Humans have used their brains for a million years to survive. It is the only tool we have that makes up for our lack of strength. Maybe we have used a bit too much so much that many have lost touch with there own sprit. I look at this world and I see heaven on earth. I think Gods plane might have been just that. Some will see it some will be busy thinking about what other stuff they need to get. The small things in life are the most important. A hot shower, a good nap, a fun hike, swimming in the ocean. We do these things and many more not just to survive but because we enjoy them. What more could you want out of life other then enjoying the time you have on this planet. The difference between us and other animals is simply that we have a choice. It is your choice to view the world as a horrible place with no hope. I bet there are people who would kill to be in your shoes, and there are people who would kill to be in their shoes and so on and so on. You make the choice to believe you also make the choice to be happy. We can’t blame God for are greed and short sightedness. When you realize that nothing matters. Either you will self-destruct, or find true peace, and happiness. Good luckI'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AlexCrowley 0 #41 July 21, 2005 Quote I think some of the comments here (& in other threads) are a good demonstration of CS Lewis's observation that people who wish to attack Christianity first set up a version of it suitable for a six-year-old, and then use that as the object of their attack. The straw man argument is what you're referring to here. It's common for someone to charicature an issue or object in a way that fits with their argument, making it much easier to tear down. Other techniques that are used on this forum very often, and blatantly: red herring arguments (chewbacca defense), onsensus gentium - or argument by consensus, appeals to various emotions, two wrongs make a right (ahhh yes, A lied but B LIED BEFORE AND IT WAS MUCH WORSE!), slippery slope arguments (well if gays can marry then how long before we let people marry dogs!?), and lastly, the argument ad nauseum - where one party continually repeats the exact same argument with the same premises. This last argument seems to be the norm when dealing with ideological discussions (well that, argument by consensus and appeals to emotion). I find it incredibly difficult to get certain questions I have regarding religion answered because my perspective is percieved as an attack on that particular faith (and I think I've managed to upset members of most of the popular ones, and some not so popular). TV's got them images, TV's got them all, nothing's shocking. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jeiber 0 #42 July 21, 2005 Too bad you weren't around for Ying's 'Suicidal Parachutists' argument! For those of you that remember it, forgive me for rekindling that atrocity! The guy 'unformed' had the perfect post to end that thread with though! This thread almost seems like it's headed for the Speaker's Corner! JeffShhh... you hear that sound? That's the sound of nobody caring! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WrongWay 0 #43 July 21, 2005 QuoteThis thread almost seems like it's headed for the Speaker's Corner! Dude.....this IS Speaker's Corner. Wrong Way D #27371 Mal Manera Rodriguez Cajun Chicken Ø Hellfish #451 The wiser wolf prevails. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AlexCrowley 0 #44 July 21, 2005 QuoteQuoteThis thread almost seems like it's headed for the Speaker's Corner! Dude.....this IS Speaker's Corner. Oh good, it's not just me then. I agree about the ying thread and the final comment, funny stuff. TV's got them images, TV's got them all, nothing's shocking. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #45 July 21, 2005 QuoteYes, it provides answers, but why make up answers just to have an answer? I can't answer that, but as a professor with 30+ years experience, I can assure you you that it happens all the time. Students can be amazingly creative in making up wrong answers, too.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
philh 0 #46 July 21, 2005 I read Lee Sobel Case for FAith and thought it was pile of crap with some of the stupidest arguments I've ever heard. He justifies the mass slaughter of civilians by saying they werent christians and so were going to hell anyway! His explanation for suffering is equally pathetic. He gives the example of a bear in the woods who is ill and is given an injection to improve his position. The bear we are told will only percieve the injection as suffering and doesnt realise its for his own good. So the analagy implies that we are the bear suffering for some higher good we are not aware of. This defense is so lame I dont know where to start. First off, if we used a painful injection when we know and have easy access to a less painful one then clearly we are committing cruelty. This is obviously the case in the bible, think of the great flood myth, these people would have died a horrible death. An all powerful god could have given them a painless death but he didnt, cruel son of a bitch. Secondly Sobel just assumes god is good and assumes he has some higher cause but why not assume god is an asshole and amuses himslef with human suffering, why is that any less valid? The bottom line is that there is no evidence for gods existence. Without evidence why should we believe? Believing stuff without evidence is the begining of a very slippery slope which leads to the killing of the unbelivers. But let assume the bible is true; well then god is a cruel wanker and I still wouldnt worship him anyway. Id sooner side with the devil who rebelled against a god that orders genocide, torture and targets children for his vengeance. Fuck god up the ass - thats what I say. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #47 July 21, 2005 QuotePhilosophy department faculty.jpg Which one's Bruce?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Croc 0 #48 July 22, 2005 What he said."Here's a good specimen of my own wisdom. Something is so, except when it isn't so." Charles Fort, commenting on the many contradictions of astronomy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 93 #49 July 22, 2005 QuoteQuotePhilosophy department faculty.jpg Which one's Bruce? NO POOFDAHS! And you are in charge of the sheep dip.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,254 #50 July 22, 2005 Quote QuotePhilosophy department faculty.jpg Which one's Bruce? The four on the right. The one on the left is only an honorary Bruce. To avoid confusionDo you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
