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Toolface180

Skyhook Video

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not simultaneous, but as I said above, I punched the reserve as soon as I felt the risers go. As damn fast as I could. I was thinking three things: 1. on my back 2. skyhook will pull pin 3. near cypres altitude?

Nobody want to talk about the twists?

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Toolface180

Nobody want to talk about the twists?



What is dangerous about them? The reserve is almost always flying straight, with minimal downward velocity of, let's say, 15 ft/sec. Plenty of time to untwist. Much better than burning altitute freefalling at 176 ft/sec, trying to get stable, thus opening much lower, or not at all...

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sundevil777

Nearly simultaneous punch on the handles is not unusual, I think. An RSL doesn't wait to confirm that both risers have released.



I'm sure it's not unusual (I'll reserve whether it's wise for those more experienced). Mainly, I've never heard of this being taught for EPs.

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-ftp-

Did anyone else gringe from him reaching ABOVE the twists?



No.

In fact if you have twists and your canopy is not behaving well, one technique that works well for getting your canopy under control is to twist your risers the opposite direction until you can reach above the twists and then you level out your canopy on rears (or, say, point your canopy away from the object if you're on a BASE jump.) Once you have control of the canopy you can deal with the twists or, if you're really eating a shit sandwich, just land it like that.

The only thing that's a bit sketchy in this case is he's still holding his handles while reaching up into his reserve to fix it... Not sure if that's a good idea...

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I just cutaway a spinner last weekend. I knew my altitude at the time of cutaway (1500') therefore taking the time to ensure my reserve all chances to open without line twist. I would much rather open lower than to fight reserve line twist.

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Toolface180

I got everything back allright but the freebag separated from the main. We thought it was unusual but I didn't realise the skyhook came off before the reserve was fully deployed. At the time all I remember was punching the reserve handle very hard as soon as I felt something give.

Thanks for comments. I thought it was an interesting video as I was on my back for most of the crucial part.




Nice job not gettin' dead! B|

I took a look at the video & have a few comments as well.

pic a ~ something looks a bit weird with the hook, maybe the PC hung a second?

pics b & b1 ~ notice how your risers aren't equal, see how the front risers have tension but the rears have slack...you loaded the reserve pretty squirrely.

Something tells me it didn't come out of the tray & off your back right...I'd bet the line twist was caused more by that than your spinning. But then again - spinning bad enough could be the cause it didn't come off cleanly.

pics c & c1 ~ Back when I had hair like Bozo, we were taught to throw the handles after pulling...that insured there wouldn't be anything flying around the lines possibly causing an entanglement.

Obviously most people don't do that anymore, but just something to think about...what would you have done if that cable had half-hitched around the line twist and slider?

See how the reserve risers aren't symmetrical...if you would have 'locked' it up like that, she would have started to spin. On a 7 cells reserve it would likely be survivable...likely. ;)

Personally- considering the altitude, I probably would have stowed the handles in my mouth and made sure my hands were clear before reaching like that...but that's me, what do I know. >:(










~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

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skydiverek

***Nobody want to talk about the twists?



What is dangerous about them? The reserve is almost always flying straight, with minimal downward velocity of, let's say, 15 ft/sec. Plenty of time to untwist. Much better than burning altitude freefalling at 176 ft/sec, trying to get stable, thus opening much lower, or not at all...

Kind of a judgement call IMO.

I can get stable pretty quick & when I'm down to 'it either works or game over', I like being in a stable launch position.

Nothing wrong with using available altitude to insure that...again 'in MY opinion'. I'm very comfortable with my hard deck, I have time to do it right.

"What's dangerous about them?"
~ mainly you have no control of where you are going, in crowded skies that can mean a wrap...sure would suck to be stuck in a severe wrap @ 2000' & be all out of parachutes.

Weigh that against a cleanly opened reserve under control @ 1500'...which is still twice as high as your AAD is set.










~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

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airtwardo

******Nobody want to talk about the twists?



What is dangerous about them? The reserve is almost always flying straight, with minimal downward velocity of, let's say, 15 ft/sec. Plenty of time to untwist. Much better than burning altitude freefalling at 176 ft/sec, trying to get stable, thus opening much lower, or not at all...

Kind of a judgement call IMO.

I can get stable pretty quick & when I'm down to 'it either works or game over', I like being in a stable launch position.

Nothing wrong with using available altitude to insure that...again 'in MY opinion'. I'm very comfortable with my hard deck, I have time to do it right.

"What's dangerous about them?"
~ mainly you have no control of where you are going, in crowded skies that can mean a wrap...sure would suck to be stuck in a severe wrap @ 2000' & be all out of parachutes.

Weigh that against a cleanly opened reserve under control @ 1500'...which is still twice as high as your AAD is set.

In the last 15 years I heard about approx 40 jumpers (in the US alone), who either cutaway and did not pull reserve, or pulled it too low (some had 6000 jumps and multiple cutaways before).

In the last 15 years I heard about ZERO wraps under reserve.

Both thing can happen, but the odds for former are WAY higher than the latter.

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skydiverek

*********Nobody want to talk about the twists?



What is dangerous about them? The reserve is almost always flying straight, with minimal downward velocity of, let's say, 15 ft/sec. Plenty of time to untwist. Much better than burning altitude freefalling at 176 ft/sec, trying to get stable, thus opening much lower, or not at all...

Kind of a judgement call IMO.

I can get stable pretty quick & when I'm down to 'it either works or game over', I like being in a stable launch position.

Nothing wrong with using available altitude to insure that...again 'in MY opinion'. I'm very comfortable with my hard deck, I have time to do it right.

"What's dangerous about them?"
~ mainly you have no control of where you are going, in crowded skies that can mean a wrap...sure would suck to be stuck in a severe wrap @ 2000' & be all out of parachutes.

Weigh that against a cleanly opened reserve under control @ 1500'...which is still twice as high as your AAD is set.

In the last 15 years I heard about approx 40 jumpers (in the US alone), who either cutaway and did not pull reserve, or pulled it too low (some had 6000 jumps and multiple cutaways before).

In the last 15 years I heard about ZERO wraps under reserve.

Both thing can happen, but the odds for former are WAY higher than the latter.


So you're saying 40 people went in during the last 15 years...none of them had an RSL hooked up?

Is that reflected in a database somewhere because I kinda find that hard to believe.

As far as reserve wraps... I've seen 2... Heard of a few others.

Saw one from the ground at a freak bros convention & the other up close and personal in 1981. - so I know for a fact it happens - the 'odds' in my case aren't 'way higher' it won't happen, it already has.

In 14 cutaways I've never had an RSL hooked up & I'm still here... Had one cutaway below 500 feet, manually deployed the reserve and walked away - so I know THAT can happen too... Not everybody down & dirty sans RSL reaches room temperature!

So like I said, it's a judgement call. I'm not saying jumping without an RSL or MARD safer - but that there are certain instances in which having one adds complications ~ I think people should be aware of that.

In the case being discussed in this thread...several things happened which could possibly have changed the outcome from positive to negative -- it seems the MARD didn't work as advertised, bad spinner had the OP on his back during reserve deployment, reserve opened while loaded more on one side, jumper could have fouled the lines and slider with the cable in his hand... But despite all that things turned out ok.... That's usually how it goes & that's great - all I'm saying is from that altitude a stable face to earth deployment would give this jumper even BETTER odds because it would most likely have eliminated many of the 'could have been' problems.

You're right about generally playing the odds in your favor - but this instance isn't a generalization it's parameters are specific. This jumper had plenty of altitude to chop get stable and deploy manually and cleanly... In this instance the line twists were more of a problem than impacting due to pulling low. --- for anyone that can skydive themself back to stable in a thousand feet. ;)

The judgement call is whether you are competent and comfortable with your skills and situational awareness or not.










~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

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airtwardo

***...
In the last 15 years I heard about approx 40 jumpers (in the US alone), who either cutaway and did not pull reserve, or pulled it too low (some had 6000 jumps and multiple cutaways before). ...



So you're saying 40 people went in during the last 15 years...none of them had an RSL hooked up?

Is that reflected in a database somewhere because I kinda find that hard to believe.
Last year (2013) 4 of the US fatalites were low cutaways with no RSL. That was a notable cluster, but 1 or 2 a year is typical. (There has been 1 such fatality in the US so far this year).

But US fatalities typically compose a bit less than half of the total world wide. So 40 in 15 years (less than 3 per year average) in the world wouldn't be a surprising number.

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"4 of the US fatalites were low cutaways"... see the problem? It is poor decision making, a sad truth.

In this sport, one must be completely confident that they can pull ALL of the handles in a timely manner, if not, they should reevaluate their participation in skydiving.

Airtwardo, you are spot on! I too have attained stability after cutaway to give my reserve its optimum opportunity to open cleanly. It IS the last chance -

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thanks Airtwardo, you are right. I should have parked the handles straight away. Next time. I was concerned to see more twists developing as I rotated (or I was surprised that I kept rotating under the canopy) and I was worried the reserve might turn ground-hungry like the main. I'd had enough of twists by then.

Fortunately the good old 7 cell stayed flat while I kicked, flapped and spun underneath.

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Toolface180


Fortunately the good old 7 cell stayed flat while I kicked, flapped and spun underneath.



As it was designed, being a reserve 'n all.
"Are you coming to the party?
Oh I'm coming, but I won't be there!"
Flying Hellfish #828
Dudist #52

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>As it was designed, being a reserve 'n all.

Not so much any more. With "high performance" reserves being loaded more and more heavily, they are getting to be less tolerant of poor deployment positions, poor riser loading during opening etc. Something to keep in mind when choosing reserve sizing.

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not simultaneous, but as I said above, I punched the reserve as soon as I felt the risers go. As damn fast as I could. I was thinking three things: 1. on my back 2. skyhook will pull pin 3. near cypres altitude?



Why did you pull the reserve as soon as you felt the risers go? "as damn fast as you could"? The mechanics, unless I've misunderstood the concept, is that you wouldn't even need to pull the reserve handle. Seeing as the Skyhook handles it for you... Don't get me wrong.. I still practise my EP's pulling the reserve after cut-away, but pulling the reserve that quickly, you risk pulling it even if you "slip" on the cut-away. Meaning a 2-canopy-out situation.

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