Who has to deal with a smoking ban in their city? What are everyone's thoughts? I'm ENRAGED!!!!!

[livendive 8]

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How often do you take your kids into bars?

Oh look, a fun game of questions -

How many restaurants have bars?
Do you only smoke in bars?
Does smoke only travel in bars?
How often do smokers exhale where there is some kind of atmosphere?
Does white chocolate really have any flavor?

I guess I thought the premise of this thread was a ban on smoking in bars (and strip clubs).

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[Amazon 7]

You sure are kewt when you get all flustered and angry...

[DrunkMonkey 0]

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I'm not completely in step on the "smokers should be forced to accomodate non-smokers" front though. Every time I go to a Mariner's game, I stop at a place called FX McRory's for a beer and cigar before-hand. Every Tuesday night, they have "single malt and cigar night". How would you propose that people who show up there for the standard Tuesday night event accomodate non-smokers? Wouldn't it be better if non-smokers accomodated the smokers and just stayed away that night? Or are you with the majority of people on this thread who thinks that's an evil, evil practice and should be outlawed?

I am not going to keep up with this, as anytime I get into a charged debate, the Powers That Be get into a hissy fit about me bruising some thin-skinned pussy's fragile ego. (NOT referring to you, Dave)

[SpeedRacer 1]

anyway this argument could go on & on.

But getting back to fireflytx's concerns:

I really don't think it will significantly affect your business.
Pub owners in Ireland thought it would, it turned out to have minimal impact, and even brought more people in in many cases.

I know some people who didn't like to go into pubs in the UK, especially for lunch, because it was just too damn smoky.

You might even get more business now. There are a lot more non-smokers than smokers.

Speed Racer
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[Brains 2]

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You sure are kewt when you get all flustered and angry...

Isn't she?

Never look down on someone, unless they are going down on you.

[SpeedRacer 1]

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You support our govt banning activities merely because you don't like them ...not because of a health consideration? I

But it is because of a health consideration! My point is you don't always need a scientific study to tell when something is making you feel un-well. You can feel it.

Just like how you dont need a thermometer to tell when you have a fever. Or a doctor to tell you when you have a cold or other infection.

Speed Racer
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[diablopilot 2]

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Our rights are slowly being taken away from us, everyone. We need to stand up and fight. This is America, Land of the Free!

Sorry, I was a 2.5 pack a day smoker for 6 years and I'm not with you on this one. It's gross....keep it outside where it belongs.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[jenfly00 0]

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You support our govt banning activities merely because you don't like them ...not because of a health consideration? I

But it is because of a health consideration! My point is you don't always need a scientific study to tell when something is making you feel un-well. You can feel it.

I think I understand. Kind of like you really don't need to read the books to know they need to be burned? They just offend you?

Did I get it right?

jen

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"O brave new world that has such people in it".

[DrunkMonkey 0]

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You support our govt banning activities merely because you don't like them ...not because of a health consideration? I

But it is because of a health consideration! My point is you don't always need a scientific study to tell when something is making you feel un-well. You can feel it.

I think I understand. Kind of like you really don't need to read the books to know they need to be burned? They just offend you?

Did I get it right?

jen

Non-sequitor. Has a book or a steak enjoyed by another ever posed a health risk to you?

[jenfly00 0]

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You support our govt banning activities merely because you don't like them ...not because of a health consideration? I

But it is because of a health consideration! My point is you don't always need a scientific study to tell when something is making you feel un-well. You can feel it.

I think I understand. Kind of like you really don't need to read the books to know they need to be burned? They just offend you?

Did I get it right?

jen

Non-sequitor. Has a book or a steak enjoyed by another ever posed a health risk to you?

Precicely! That doesn't keep dangerously closed minded assholes from burning books or banning outdoor smoking now does it?


jen

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"O brave new world that has such people in it".

[skymama 35]

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But getting back to fireflytx's concerns:

I really don't think it will significantly affect your business.
Pub owners in Ireland thought it would, it turned out to have minimal impact, and even brought more people in in many cases.

I agree. It hasn't stopped tourists coming to FL. We're going to have to come up with something else now. Pesky northerners.

She is Da Man, and you better not mess with Da Man,
because she will lay some keepdown on you faster than, well, really fast. ~Billvon

[DrewEckhardt 0]

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I had a plan this year to pay off my credit card, buy a new rig, pay off my car early and get Lasik surgery and perhaps next year take some trips and go to school. Now because of stupid do-gooders that think they know what is best for me I probably won't be able to get my eyes fixed, or persue my life in the way I had planned out for this year.

Boulder has few smoking bars left since bars which want a smoking area must seal it off from the rest of the establishment, provide a separate ventilation system, and not include anything that's not in the non-smoking section. A lot of places decided it was easier to become non-smoking establishments.

The surrounding cities did not have a ban.

Although Boulder bar revenues went down for a few months, they returned to their former levels when people decided it wasn't worth driving to smoke inside.

The same thing has happened in other cities with partial and total bans.

[skyyhi 0]

California has had this for so long we don't even hardly notice it anymore. It hurt some at first but now no one even pays attention. Most bars, restaurants, and cafes spent money to build patios so their patrons could take drinks or food outside and enjoy a smoke. . .

________________________________________
Take risks not to escape life… but to prevent life from escaping. ~ A bumper sticker at the DZ
FGF #6
Darcy

[BillyVance 34]

Having joined in this discussion a bit late, I'll just put in my feelings and ignore what's already been discussed.

I am not a fan of smoking, in fact I detest it with a passion. Most of the time, if I get a whiff of smoke somewhere, I'll hold my breath long enough to get out of that area and back to clean fresh air. I also try to avoid some convenience stores that are known to be smoke-filled.

I whole-heartedly look forward to the day that any bar or nightclub becomes smoke-free so that I can go and enjoy myself from time to time with friends. I just can't handle the heavy layers of smoke in those places.

Sure, there will be a lull in attendance, but they will come back. I have seen it before. In time, you'll be grateful to have healthier lungs when you're older, and not on some breathing tank sucking oxygen when you've got Emphysema or some other lung disease...

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[kelpdiver 2]

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Up here in B.C. there is a smokin ban in bars. But instead of making everyone go outside, they just built a smoking room, wanna smoke, go in the smoking room. Its all ventalated, so it doesnt bother anyone.

For some reason, this obvious compromise isn't considered acceptable. Actually, CA may allow it, so long as the wait staff don't enter the room. They use some sort of lazy susan to get drinks in and out.

I don't think it's unfair or stealing rights to ban smoking in the bars, but some alternative has to be left for the smokers. With movement now to ban smoking outdoors on the street - which is ridiculous with the air quality we have in much of the state - reasonability seems to be fading. (Though it would be so nice if more smokers would pick up their fucking butts)

[kelpdiver 2]

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As someone else mentioned, I've also noticed the rapid rate in which Austin has been taken over by Californians... I guess it's because Austin is such a great place and the cost of living is so much less than in California. And here I am, an Austinite stuck in Cali at the moment... I just hope those bastards don't ruin my town before I move back!

CA puts up with all the out of staters flowing in when things are booming - you guys can deal with the backwash when business goes the other way. How did you think our cost of living got so high?

[jumprunner 0]

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I agree. It hasn't stopped tourists coming to FL. We're going to have to come up with something else now.

And when you do send your idea out west.

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Pesky northerners.

Ahh, around there I believe the correct term would be "yankee"?

[jumprunner 0]

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As someone else mentioned, I've also noticed the rapid rate in which Austin has been taken over by Californians... I guess it's because Austin is such a great place and the cost of living is so much less than in California. And here I am, an Austinite stuck in Cali at the moment... I just hope those bastards don't ruin my town before I move back!

Yea, and California is being taken over by everyone else.

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CA puts up with all the out of staters flowing in when things are booming - you guys can deal with the backwash when business goes the other way. How did you think our cost of living got so high?

From what I hear, the cost of living got so high because of real estate advertisement...they are making SoCal out to be a resort area. HOWEVER, you can plainly see that this is just a fad, and one that isnt going to last over the long term. "Resort" areas are always shifting, and SD really isnt that much of a resort, just a lot of advertisement and stupid poeple that fall for it, who are willing to "purchase", and I use the term loosely, these 100,000 dollar homes for 4 million dollars, which, ofcourse, they cant afford. Its all on paper and no real money is being exchanged (remember the stock market crash of 1929?)

Its a fad, and a stupid one at that, but when it tapers off, so will housnig prices, and foreclosures will be the talk of the town (he he he). So if you want an affordable house, be one of those Californians who stick it out and wait as opposed to one of those who run away whining.

As for me, I moved here because Ive always wanted to live here and I love it here, this place really kicks ass. You pay more to live here, but you also get more.

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[billvon 2,396]

You said:

>HOWEVER, you can plainly see that this is just a fad, and one that isnt >going to last over the long term.

But then you said:

>As for me, I moved here because Ive always wanted to live here and I
> love it here, this place really kicks ass. You pay more to live here, but
> you also get more.

So which is it? Do people want to live here because it's a fad, or because they want to live in a place that kicks ass?

I don't think prices around here will be going down any time soon. Sun 300 days a year, far enough from LA, no freezing in winter, no cooking in summer . . . I think those are the reasons that prices are going up here.

[ChasingBlueSky 0]

Smoking section in bars, even with the filtration systems is a joke - esp to those that have bad reactions to smoke. For example - grew up in a house with a smoker and had serious lung issues 4-5 times a year, including infections. Once I moved out and lived in a smoke free environment I'm down to 1 a year related to the typical flu.

Am I to be denied enjoying a night out on the town while indoors due to someone's addiction?

Smoke outside, in your house, your car, whatever.....I don't care what you do. Restaurant, bar, theatre, plane, etc....hell no...unless you want to pay for my medical bills and time I miss at work.

What about my right to breath in a healthy environment? Lack of smoking won't kill you - but your smoke could kill me.

_________________________________________
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....

[jumprunner 0]

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You said:

>HOWEVER, you can plainly see that this is just a fad, and one that isnt >going to last over the long term.

But then you said:

>As for me, I moved here because Ive always wanted to live here and I
> love it here, this place really kicks ass. You pay more to live here, but
> you also get more.

So which is it? Do people want to live here because it's a fad, or because they want to live in a place that kicks ass?

I don't think prices around here will be going down any time soon. Sun 300 days a year, far enough from LA, no freezing in winter, no cooking in summer . . . I think those are the reasons that prices are going up here.

Oh come on...its a cheap fad as the result of advertisement. Are you telling me that people are actually stupid enough to pay 10 times what a house is worth....because of the weather??? People are selling thier houses and moving...why arent THEY staying here because of the weather?

And as far as the weather, where is the sun, anyway? All Ive been seeing is a lot of clouds and a hell of a lot of rain, like this last weekend for instance.

Anyone can clearly see that the weather here sucks, its hardly ever sunny, it always rains, where is this great weather youre talking about? I havent seen it.

Its cheap advertisement. People fall for it becasue they are gullible enough to believe everything they hear on TV. So you think prices will keep going up??? So people will be paying one billion dollars for a run down shack some day, because they like the weather here and they just have to live in SD?

If you want good weather, go to S. Florida, thats good weather! This is another Oregon. Not that I mind it, Im just saying its ridiculous to pay that kind of money to live here because of the weather, espeically when its always cold and raining.

[ryoder 1,381]

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Boulder has few smoking bars left since bars which want a smoking area must seal it off from the rest of the establishment, provide a separate ventilation system, and not include anything that's not in the non-smoking section. A lot of places decided it was easier to become non-smoking establishments.

The surrounding cities did not have a ban.

Although Boulder bar revenues went down for a few months, they returned to their former levels when people decided it wasn't worth driving to smoke inside.

The same thing has happened in other cities with partial and total bans.

And speaking of surrounding cities, Broomfield went smoke-free a year ago, and Louisville is now considering it.

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[billvon 2,396]

> Are you telling me that people are actually stupid enough to pay
>10 times what a house is worth....because of the weather???

I was stupid enough to pay 10 times what a house is worth. Of course, now it's actually worth 20 times what it should be worth, so I figure I'm still ahead.

>People are selling thier houses and moving...why arent THEY staying
>here because of the weather?

Next time you drive to Otay, check out what used to be an empty field. Now wall to wall houses. I have no doubt people are selling out, but they're vastly in the minority.

>And as far as the weather, where is the sun, anyway? All Ive been
> seeing is a lot of clouds and a hell of a lot of rain, like this last
> weekend for instance.

No shit! This has been a very strange year. When's the last time we had a storm in May?

>So you think prices will keep going up??? So people will be paying one
> billion dollars for a run down shack some day, because they like the
>weather here and they just have to live in SD?

Eventually, yes. I recall a shack on the water in Solana Beach (literally three rooms) selling for over 2 million. Like they say, they ain't makin any more real estate, and lots of people want it.

[bhammond 0]

a lot of good post here .... the only thought going through my mind is how selfish you are ....
you should be ashamed of yourself.

[jumprunner 0]

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> Are you telling me that people are actually stupid enough to pay
>10 times what a house is worth....because of the weather???

I was stupid enough to pay 10 times what a house is worth. Of course, now it's actually worth 20 times what it should be worth, so I figure I'm still ahead.

Eventually, yes. I recall a shack on the water in Solana Beach (literally three rooms) selling for over 2 million. Like they say, they ain't makin any more real estate, and lots of people want it.

Always the optimist. Id sell it now and just get an apartment.
Remember, everything on paper? Stock market crash of 1929? Stocks were being sold on 10% margins, stock holders never really "paid" for what they "bought", money was not exchanging hands. The result...unfavorable conditions triggered the worst crash in history resulting in the Great Depression.
SD: "4 million dollar" houses are being sold for interest payments, nothing applied to the principle, people who cant afford them are abel to "purchase" them, on the pretense that prices are going to continue to escalate. An unfavorable condition, like rising interest rates, can cause property values to drop, they cant afford to pay the difference, a selling crises escalates with property values falling and forecloures taking place.

Isnt it true that:
1. this already happened in the 1980s?
2. property values have risen radically in just a few years?
3. property values are higher than theyve ever been? (astronomical would be a better term...and in just a few years)

Take into account, we both know SD isnt really a resort area...this is a great place to live for some people, but as far as resorts, there are certainly better places to be.
The cost of living here is excessively high, while the income level is excessively low...my company is having a hard time trying to convince people to relocate here. People are moving out in droves...and the ones moving in?
Well, if Im wrong about what Im saying, then I am going to have a real hard time in thinking that there are this many, filthy rich, multimillionaires when I know that only 1% of the countrys' poppulation is in that category, and they are pretty well spread out (not all in SD). We'll see what happens, meanwhile Ill just sit back and watch the entertainment, ie
"a shack on the water in Solana Beach (literally three rooms) selling for over 2 million"....entertaining.

As for me, I live in a pretty nice apt in Mira Mesa not more than 5 minutes from where I work and dont want to change a thing, dont need a house, and I hate the idea of living by the water (yes I surf, but it doesnt mean I want to live there).

And the most entertaining (and stupidest) thing Ive heard so far.....I asked one guy from up north why he would want to pay so much to live in PB when he never goes to the beach.

His awnser? "So people will think I have more money". Like anyone really gives a rats ass! But this is the kind of mentality that drive up property values, idiots like him have to figure that theyre worth about as much as whats in their pocket.