Container advice needed

[timrf79 0]

I know when it comes to containers everyone has their preference.
Does anyone know a container that can hold 4 sizes? from a 120 to a 170?

[Pobrause 6]

Depends on the kind of 170 you want to put in there

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To absent friends

[timrf79 0]

120 Sabre 2 to 170 Sabre 2

[Pobrause 6]

You might have luck with a fairly well used Sa2 170 and a 120 with a big fat logo on it. But otherwise, no. No container system that I'm aware of has this kind of range, safely containing your choice of canopies.

I owned a sunpath Jav Odyssey J3K, jumped everything from a spectre170 down to a 120 Katana in it. The 120 had a pretty big logo on it which made it pack similar to a normal 140+ sqft canopy. A normal 120 didn't fill up the container enough for sufficiant pin pressure even with a loop half as long as recommended.

Have you considered any hybrid type of 170? Like Pulse, Silhouette, any ZPX canopy from aerodyne, well used 7cells etc? Why does it have to be a Sabre2?

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To absent friends

[EvilGenius 0]

I managed to do this with my Vortex 2 sized for a 135 sq ft canopy, I think canopy selection has a far greater role than the container. It went like this:

Quadra V-Tech 170
Pilot ZPX 150
Sabre2 135
Sabre2 120

The V-Tech was an old student canopy that I rented with many many jumps on it and it packed really small. The pilot also packed small due to the ZPX, the Sabre 2 135 was a perfect fit as you'd expect and the 120 is safe but I can't go any smaller.

[timrf79 0]

Yeah, I was considering going for a container sized for a 150 max and then putting in a Pilot 7 170 ZPX.
However I really like the Sabre 2 and here the Pilot canopies are not as "agressive"

[Polecat 0]

You seem to be looking for a rig that will allow you to jump something big until you get more experience, and still work for you when you downsize later.

Since something that fits that range of parachutes is tough to find, you might also consider just buying a used rig at first to fit the large canopy, and then go for the brand new custom fit rig later when you downsize.

[hackish 8]

I think you're asking for something that's impractical. There is a huge difference in pack volume between a 120 and 170. Most rigs allow 3 sizes, loose, normal and tight. You just can't go down 2 sizes from normal and expect it to fit in there properly. Instead, focus on a rig that has great resale value and downsize the rig when you're ready to downsize the canopy the second time.

-Michael

[countzero 7]

timrf79

Yeah, I was considering going for a container sized for a 150 max and then putting in a Pilot 7 170 ZPX.
However I really like the Sabre 2 and here the Pilot canopies are not as "agressive"

Have you demoed a Pilot? Also, what's the hurry to fly an "aggressive" canopy?

IMO- get a used container that fits what you can safely fly currently, jump it and gain canopy skills. Then when you have the experience to jump smaller canopies sell the used container and put those funds towards a new one.

diamonds are a dawgs best friend

[riggerrob 558]

Closing loop configuration can make a big difference.
For example, if the closing loop is attached to the mid-wall (bottom side of reserve container) then goes through all 4 flaps, then it is longer and can be adjusted to fit a wider range of canopies.
My Talon 2 was originally designed to fit a Sabre 190. I jumped for many years with Sabre 170 and 150, but when I converted to Stiletto 135, I sewed in a new main loop anchor and it worked fine for hundreds more jumps.

[dragon2 0]

If you put a very small packing 170 in there (pulse 170, an old-style canopy like a merit 190 or pd7/9 cell), and a very big packing 120 (an airlocked 120, a smaller CF canopy), may-be.

Usually getting 3 different sizes in that way is already quite good. A lot also depends on which reserve you in the rig.
A 'full' rig isn't very comfy against your back, and can also cause damage to the rig (stitching coming undone), aside from being hard to pack.

In most cases just getting 2 rigs will be much smarter.

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[timrf79 0]

Yeah, the only problem is at 6'6" and 215 there are not many used rigs and selling a rig is not the easiest thing.

I think with an exit weight of 250lbs it will be quite a while before i can below a 135, but if I could have a rig that allows going down to a 120, it would be a rig for life ;-)
(as a 120 Sabre 2 could be followed by elliptical (larger) or cross braced)

[mr2mk1g 10]

Rig for life? By the time you have enough jumps to be jumping a 2.1 wing loading you'll have worn the thing out.

[NowAndLater 0]

I'm wondering, at 240 exit weight, what canopy are you going to find that will support a 1.4 wing loading at recommended beginner level (80 jumps).

A rig you buy now will not last as long as it would take you to be prepared to fly a 120 at 2.0 wing loading unless you do all canopy coaching.

A saber 2, for example, at your jumps, is not recommended below a 230 and 240lbs is way beyond the limits of a 120.

http://www.performancedesigns.com/docs/W-L_Interpretations.pdf

http://www.performancedesigns.com/products/sabre2/#

I would say size it for a 170 at best, get a used 7 cell 190 at best (your exit weight will thank you for this also) and consider yourself a long way from going above a 170 wingloading. Or size it for a 190 and your set all the way from 210-170. Or wait until you see a big boy rig and get it for cheap.

Don't go straight to a 170 without posting where you jump (please). :)

Opinion is the medium between knowledge and ignorance.

[timrf79 0]

mr2mk1g

Rig for life? By the time you have enough jumps to be jumping a 2.1 wing loading you'll have worn the thing out.

I thought a good rig will last you about 2,000 jumps?
Maybe not life, but at least a few years

[timrf79 0]

NowAndLater

A rig you buy now will not last as long as it would take you to be prepared to fly a 120 at 2.0 wing loading unless you do all canopy coaching.

I hear that currency is more important that jump number alone for WL.
However what jump numbers and currency do you consider for adequate for a 2.x loading?

In this document on page 5 http://www.metatag.de/webs/dfv/downloads/5_-_WINGLOAD-Tabelle_einmal_anders_-_Umsetzung_auf_Schirmtypen_und_-gr%F6ssen.pdf is recommended to have over 600 jumps and more than 200 per year when you plan to exceed a WL of 1.5

BTW, what exactly is "all canopy coaching"?

[radical_flyer 0]

Canopy coaching on every jump.

[sammielu 3]

Currency and jump numbers combined are important for safe downsizing. Someone who has 2000 jumps in the last 5 years is very different than someone who has jumped 100 times/year for the last 20 years... 100 jumps/year is just enough to maintain (remember!) skills but not enough to build new skills.

Search for downsizing checklists on here, you'll find some nice long lists of skills to master before thinking about adding speed (via downsize).

"Canopy Coaching" means canopy only dedicated jumps with specific skills you're working on. If you want to downsize fast, focus all of your skydive energy on canopy skills alone and leave that freefall mumbo jumbo for the future. At an A licence, you're next order of business should be to take a canopy course - those types of jumps are what is referred to here (exit around 5k, deploy canopy immediately, practice skills up high, land, get video and debrief about what you did).

The document you link is not in English, but the recommendation for 600 jumps with 200/year minimum for wL of 1.5 sounds good to me, as a minimum, with slow downsizing and coaching along the way. For your weight 240lbs, that is a 160sf canopy 500+ jumps from now .0minimum. A 120sf canopy puts you at a 2.0 wingloading, probably in the 1500-2000 jumps range with 200 jumps per year on that 120 at an absolute minimum to stay current. Wow is that a lot of jumps and a lot of canopy purchases from now. What's the hurry? Skydivers who stick in the sport and downsize usually buy used for their first couple rigs, then decide what size container is the best fit for them and order new later on. Plenty of skydivers quit or slow down jumping (which cancels that need to downsize) before downsizing out of a rig and never need to buy a smaller container. Buy what you need now for now and leave yourself room for 1 downsize.

Also consider reserve size. You want a nice big reserve now in the 240sf range to keep you safe if your very next jump is on that reserve, right? There is not a container that fits a 240 reserve and a 120 main, that's a really big size difference. Ask around and hold up a couple containers side by side - a big wide reserve tray on top and then a skinny little 120 main tray on bottom and the whole rig is hourglass shaped... not really a thing.

Big boy rigs are hard to come by. Keep in mind that harness resizes are an option for some manufacturers (I know from experience Velocity, UPT, and Javelin are great to work with) and cost $500-$600. Get with a local rigger who can measure you properly, ask which manufacturers they do/don't like to work with, and look for a used container that fits your yoke measurement and canopy sizes, then have the rest of the harness resized to fit you. $600 on top of a used container is still less than the price of a new container, and modifications take less time than building rigs from scratch.

[sundevil777 93]

timrf79

Yeah, the only problem is at 6'6" and 215 there are not many used rigs and selling a rig is not the easiest thing.

I think with an exit weight of 250lbs it will be quite a while before i can below a 135, but if I could have a rig that allows going down to a 120, it would be a rig for life ;-)
(as a 120 Sabre 2 could be followed by elliptical (larger) or cross braced)

How do new(er) jumpers get it into their head that getting to a WL near to or above 2 is something desirable, expected, a normal target?

I realize I'm reading more into your post than what you said, but still, it seems that so many are convinced that moving to a small canopy is expected.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[timrf79 0]

Thanks for the feedback.
I did not mean to start another downsizing thread.

My profile (jumps number, license) is a bit out of date, will fix that soon.

With 16-22 week lead times for rigs, I was hoping to buy one new that will last a long time.

If I am assuming that I will not go smaller than 135 in under 1k jumps a rig stuffed with a 170 would last me an estimated 2-3 years. A rig that can hold a 120 Sabre 2 would last me, well until it falls apart. But maybe I will stay at a 135 or go from there to a fully elliptical or cross braced....

Anyhow, would have been nice if there is any rig that covers 120 to 170...

[sundevil777 93]

Quote

I did not mean to start another downsizing thread.

Of course you did not mean to do that, but you should realize that it turns into that (another downsizing thread) because when people get hurt under canopies they have no business jumping, the ambulance can result in a very long delay in jumping for everyone else.

Of course you want to only have to buy one rig, ever.

How did you decide what canopy you ought to be jumping in the future, even 1000 jumps from now? Why is it that you have concluded that a WL in the range of 1.2 or 1.4 is not for you?

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[timrf79 0]

sundevil777

How did you decide what canopy you ought to be jumping in the future, even 1000 jumps from now? Why is it that you have concluded that a WL in the range of 1.2 or 1.4 is not for you?

Good question, and I might realize that 1.5 is all I ever want to jump.

A container for 4 sizes (120- 170) would allow loading from 2.1 to 1.3 (7-cell 190); certainly enough range to not ever need to buy another one.

[sundevil777 93]

timrf79

***
How did you decide what canopy you ought to be jumping in the future, even 1000 jumps from now? Why is it that you have concluded that a WL in the range of 1.2 or 1.4 is not for you?

Good question, and I might realize that 1.5 is all I ever want to jump.

A container for 4 sizes (120- 170) would allow loading from 2.1 to 1.3 (7-cell 190); certainly enough range to not ever need to buy another one.

It is wise to not expect so much variation. Important things are much better when the container is right for the canopies, without pushing the envelope either way. The good news is that rigs for larger canopies and larger people are in high demand, so they sell fast at a good price. The supply vs demand for small-canopy rigs is not as good for sellers.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[timrf79 0]

sundevil777

The good news is that rigs for larger canopies and larger people are in high demand, so they sell fast at a good price. The supply vs demand for small-canopy rigs is not as good for sellers.

Since November 2015, there have only been 2 rigs for sale (on FB) that fit my body type. I bought both, one needed alterations the second one might get some alterations....

This circumstance is one driver for my original question.

[NowAndLater 0]

http://www.dropzone.com/classifieds/Detailed/Containers/Vector_Micron_320_-_BRAND_NEW_-_CUSTOM_DESIGN_189686.html

Opinion is the medium between knowledge and ignorance.