skydyvr 0 #26 January 9, 2005 QuoteI find it interesting that you think alchohol is OK when it impairs judgement more then weed and nicotine is one of the most addictive drugs legal or illegal. Lot's of people think this way, and it's the surest example of a non-objective argument I can imagine. . . =(_8^(1) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
br0k3n 0 #27 January 10, 2005 QuoteWell, personally, having been around pot smokers and around drunks, I'd hang out with the pot smokers if I had to pick between the two. Reasons:** Pot smokers are less likely to start fights Pot smokers are less likely to want to drive It's a lot harder to provoke someone who's high. It's easy to provoke a drunk. **This is just my personal experience. I agree, I would any day rather spend my time (actually I often do) with people who smoke da weed, then people drinking da booze. I have several friends who smoke weed regularly, and have done for years. If you were around them chances are unless you actually saw a “doobie” in there hands you wouldn’t even know that the might be “stoned” The stereotype image of the pot smoking, pizza calling jobless loser is bullshit. Weed will always be illegal, because it keeps people in jobs. It would be interesting (if any one has any figures) to see how much say in the US is spent on the war on weed, as compared to the annual cost of Alcohol, i.e add up all the costs of the treatment of alcohol related incidences, drink driving incidence, the treatment of alcoholics. Also how many people a year die from weed, as apposed to Alcohol? And I guess how many people are killed by someone “high” on alcohol??? Well According to the National Council on Alcohol and Drug Dependency, 105,000 Americans die annually from alcohol-related causes which could include everything from falls to drunk driving accidents to cirrhosis of the liver. For comparison sake, there are 365,000 tobacco-related deaths in the U.S. each year Does anyone have any figures for weed? And for all the people that think Marijuana is a "gateway" drug -- it leads to hard drugs The Dutch functionally decriminalized marijuana in the 1970s. Since then, hard drug use -- heroin and cocaine -- have DECLINED substantially. Even use of marijuana has declined. If marijuana really was a gateway drug, one would have expected use of hard drugs to have gone up. Actual studies of hard drug "addicts" reveal that they start with alcohol or tobacco more frequently than marijuana.----------------------------------------------------------- --+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cloudseeker2001 0 #28 January 10, 2005 What about that sweet, white drug everyone gets hooked on kills millions around the world one way or another........SUGAR! It is beyond my understanding why we cage people for smoking a weed that grows naturally most everywhere in the world and has been used by every society known to man. "Some call it heavenly in it's brilliance, others mean and rueful of the western dream" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
happythoughts 0 #29 January 10, 2005 clicky Quote In Salt Lake City in November, federal judge Paul G. Cassell, remarking that mandatory-minimum sentencing laws gave him no choice, sent a 25-year-old, small-quantity marijuana dealer to prison for 55 years (because he had a gun on him during two of the transactions). Two hours before that, in a crime Cassell described as far more serious but not subject to the same mandatory minimums, he sentenced a man to 22 years in prison for beating an elderly woman to death with a log. [New York Times, 11-17-04] Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydyvr 0 #30 January 10, 2005 QuoteIt is beyond my understanding why we cage people for smoking a weed that grows naturally most everywhere in the world and has been used by every society known to man. As someone mentioned earlier, marijuana prohibition is one of the top three stupidest US domestic policies of all time. The ruination of lives and waste of money caused by the WoD is tragic. . . =(_8^(1) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
78RATS 0 #31 January 10, 2005 Quote main reason that hemp is illegal is because the American public guilible as always bought into the massive infowar waged by Hearst in the 30's..... Actually i think Hemp became illegal because DOW chemical developed some kind of synthetic that worked better. Before that Hemp was used for all kinds of shit. Christopher Columbus came on over on sails made of Hemp. To me the legalization of Hemp and the legalization of MJ are two different things. There is NO good reason to outlaw Hemp. It is the one plant that could actually save this planet if we used it. Rat for Life - Fly till I die When them stupid ass bitches ask why Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #32 January 11, 2005 QuoteHere you go from, first, conceding my point on relative safety, to your last thought, again referring to marijuana as an element of a set labeled "dangerous substances." No, I was simply agreeing with you that of the three, marijuana could be construed as more benign in its affects. However, when smoked, there are hundreds of toxic agents present, so I wasn't calling it "safe". I was agreeing with you, to a point. QuoteDo you really think that availability is a major problem? As far as foreign drug laws go, some of those laws are stipulations of US assistance. And others are not enforced. In fact, unless it has changed in the past couple of years, or so, marijuana use is no longer an arrestable offense in UK. And Canada has been rethinking their stance in the issue as well, as I understand it. Big deal. Two countries, combined population of less than 100,000,000 people are "thinking" about changing their laws. By and large, drugs are illegal just about everywhere. Tobacco and alcohol are not. QuoteActually, studies show that, while cannabis use can affect driving ability, it does so on a much lesser magnatude than does alcohol. In fact, regular users that have just smoked an amount smaller than usual, actually consistantly perform slightly better than if completely sober. I think it was AAA that did the study, but I'll have to go talk to my local Freedom Fighter before I can site the reference. I'm not saying that it's a good idea to drive while high, I'm just saying that the fears are largely unwarranted. I call BS on it. AAA sure as sh*t didn't commission the study either. The "fears" are not unwarranted. We'll just have to disagree on this. Habitual pot smokers lose motor control, can't react to sh*t and have no critical thinking ability after a period of time. Short-term memory goes out the window and long-term memory is next in line over time. QuoteQuoteI've lost friends and family to all of these substances, and some that are not in this topic of conversation. I have to ask how you lost a friend/loved one to marijuana use. They died? Or stopped being your friend/loved one? Just curious. Just remember you asked (and frankly, I hope you feel badly for thinking this sh*t is harmless): One "best" friend, died of lung cancer. Never smoked a cigarette in his life. He loved his "green" though (1995). One "best" friend was killed by a driver who was high on pot. Toxicity tests showed no other substances in her system (1991). A relative of mine works in a police drug unit in Baltimore. When his team was on a raid (seizing several hundred pounds of pot), he was shot in the ensuing gun fight. He lived. QuoteAside from food, fuel, medicinal, paper, clothing, housing, and transportation applications, as well as providing a tax source, you're right, it wouldn't solve any problems. Food? What food? Fuel? What fuel? Medicinal -- I addressed in my first pot. Extract the THC and use it in another medium. Clothing -- There aren't many, but you can buy clothing made from hemp in the US (as far as I know) Housing? Huh? Transportation? Taxes -- would be drained by the resulting social programs that would be required resulting from the health problems and medical costs that would increase directly, or indirectly due to marijuana use. This is not harmless. I readily admit these problems I cite also exist with alcohol -- one of the most dangerous substances to get addicted to, or detox from. I also submit that it should not be used as the means to an end-goal of legalizing pot. Alcohol has its benefits too (fuel, cleaning/medical, heating).So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #33 January 11, 2005 QuoteActually i think Hemp became illegal because DOW chemical developed some kind of synthetic that worked better. Before that Hemp was used for all kinds of shit. Christopher Columbus came on over on sails made of Hemp. I think you replied to the wrong post, but you're right about the viable option to synthetics such as nylon or rayon, or even polyester. The parachute lines on the first canopy to save Bush's life, in WWII, were hemp. If it were legal, a lot of money made by petroleum, timber, and pharmaceutical companies could instead be made by American farmers. In fairness, there are also other promising options for bio-fuel.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #34 January 11, 2005 QuoteI call BS on it. AAA sure as sh*t didn't commission the study either. Pretty sure it was them. I'll find out the specifics for you. QuoteHabitual pot smokers lose motor control, can't react to sh*t and have no critical thinking ability after a period of time. Short-term memory goes out the window and long-term memory is next in line over time. Common misconceptions. I know very productive PhD.s and other professionals that have smoked heavily for decades. They have excellent memory and critical thinking skills. After decades.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #35 January 11, 2005 Quote21 and over only, driving under the influence gets you a suspended license, etc. I have no problem with adults doing what they wish, provided they put no one else at risk. Different battle altogether but people in the USA are legal "adults" at 18.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #36 January 11, 2005 QuoteA relative of mine works in a police drug unit in Baltimore. When his team was on a raid (seizing several hundred pounds of pot), he was shot in the ensuing gun fight. Yet you still believe marijuana should remain illegal and the war on drugs should continue. I don't follow the logic. Quote Food? What food? Perhaps you've heard of gruel. Russia sustained on the stuff for a couple of centuries, if I remember correctly. Plus, anything you can make with soybean, you can make with cannabis seeds. They are the two most nutritional plants on the planet. While soy contains more nutrients, cannabis has more nutrients readily available to our bodies. QuoteFuel? What fuel? Check out the links on industrial hemp in the original post. QuoteMedicinal -- I addressed in my first pot. Extract the THC and use it in another medium. Cannabis has hundreds of cannabinoids, of which some, including THC, are pshycoactive. Marinol (Synthetic THC) has not shown the extensive promise raw cannabis has shown. QuoteClothing -- There aren't many, but you can buy clothing made from hemp in the US (as far as I know) If it could be legally grown in this country, hemp clothing would be more common, as it is generally superior to most all fibers commonly used in clothing. QuoteHousing? Huh? You can use hemp to produce building materials. QuoteTransportation? Perhaps you have never heard of the car Henry Ford grew from the soil? From Popular Mechanics Magazine (Vol. 76, No. 6, December, 1941. Title: Auto Body Made of Plastics Resists Denting Under Hard Blows.): "After twelve years of research, the Ford Motor Company has completed an experimental automobile with a plastic body. Although its design takes advantage of the properties of plastics, the streamline car does not differ greatly in appearance from its steel counterpart. The only steel in the hand-made body is found in the tubular welded frame on which are mounted 14 plastic panels, 3/16 inch thick. Composed of a mixture of farm crops and synthetic chemicals, the plastic is reported to withstand a blow 10 times as great as steel without denting. Even the Windows and windshield are of plastic. The total weight of the plastic car is about 2,000 pounds, compared with 3,000 pounds for a steel automobile of the same size. Although no hint has been given as to when plastic cars may go into production, the experimental model is pictured as a step toward materialization of Henry Ford's belief that some day he would "grow automobiles from the soil." "When Henry Ford recently unveiled his plastic car, result of 12 years of research, he have the world a glimpse of the automobile of tomorrow, its tough panels molded under hydraulic pressure of 1,500 pounds per square inch from a recipe that calls for 70 percent of cellulose fibers from wheat straw, hemp, and sisal plus 30 percent resin binder. The only steel in the car is its tubular welded frame. The plastic car weighs a ton, 1,000 pounds lighter than a comparable steel car. Manufacturers are already talking of a low-priced plastic car to test the public's taste by 1943." http://hempmuseum.org/ROOMS/ARM%20PLASTICS.htm QuoteTaxes -- would be drained by the resulting social programs that would be required resulting from the health problems and medical costs that would increase directly, or indirectly due to marijuana use. What social problems would be necessary? What health risks? NOT ONE PERSON'S death has ever been credibly attributed to cannibis. IT HAS SHOWN PROMISE AS AN ANTI-CANCER TREATMENT!!! What problems do you speak of?Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
3ringheathen 0 #37 January 11, 2005 Quotewhen smoked, there are hundreds of toxic agents present, so I wasn't calling it "safe". If it were legal, people could probably afford to ingest it in safer ways. Brownies anyone? However, I won't go so far as to call it completely safe, no matter how ingested. Quote By and large, drugs are illegal just about everywhere. Tobacco and alcohol are not. That's hardly a compelling argument for maintaining the status quo. Just think of all the terrible things that similar logic has been applied to in the past. We should be considering the pros and cons of legalization on there own merit, not on how well they conform to historical practices. Quote One "best" friend, died of lung cancer. Never smoked a cigarette in his life. He loved his "green" though (1995). So cigarettes should be illegal, too? Quote One "best" friend was killed by a driver who was high on pot. Toxicity tests showed no other substances in her system (1991). Driving under the influence would still be illegal, even if general use was permitted. Stoned steering isn't safe, but I'd prefer to be on the highway surrounded by stoned drivers rather than drunk ones. At least the collisions would be at lower speeds. Quote A relative of mine works in a police drug unit in Baltimore. When his team was on a raid (seizing several hundred pounds of pot), he was shot in the ensuing gun fight. He lived. This could well be an argument for legalization. Are you suggesting that pot made the suspect violent? I'd suggest that it's fear of a ridiculously long prison sentence or money that motivates someone in that situation. QuoteTaxes -- would be drained by the resulting social programs that would be required resulting from the health problems and medical costs that would increase directly, or indirectly due to marijuana use. People are already using, at least there would be tax revenue. Let's not forget the obscene amounts of money currently spent fighting the drug war, and incarcerating productive members of society. People who, for the most part would be paying taxes if they weren't in jail for pot use. -Josh If you have time to panic, you have time to do something more productive. -Me* *Ron has accused me of plagiarizing this quote. He attributes it to Douglas Adams. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #38 January 11, 2005 Quote I call BS on it. While I could not find that perticular study, here is a report from the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration which says essentially the same thing (about the actual effects vs. the publicly perceived effects of driving under the influence of THC) "Marijuana's effects on driving performance were compared to those of many other drugs. It was concluded that THC's effects after doses up to 300 mcg / kg [This represents smoking a large recreational dose of marijuana. --jcd11235] never exceed alcohol's at BAC's of 0.08 g %; and were in no way unusual compared to many medicinal drugs'. Yet THC's effects differ qualitatively from many other drugs, especially alcohol. Evidence from the present and previous studies stronly suggests that alcohol encourages risky driving whereas THC encourages greater caution, at least in experiments. Another way THC seems to differ qualitatively from many other drugs is that the former's users seem better able to compensate for its adverse effects while driving under the influence. Still one can easily imagine situations where the influence of marijuana smoking might have an exceedingly dangerous effect; i.e., emergency situations which put high demands on the driver's information processing capacity, prolonged monotonous driving, and after THC has been taken with other drugs, especially alcohol." And From New Scientist: "A single glass of wine will impair your driving more than smoking a joint. And under certain test conditions, the complex way alcohol and cannabis combine to affect driving behaviour suggests that someone who has taken both may drive less recklessly than a person who is simply drunk." + ==`0 = Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 25 #39 January 11, 2005 Have you ever driven stoned? No need to answer that publicly... But I heard, from a friend of mine, that he thought he was safer driving on LSD than driving stoned. I won't say that it's better to drive drunk, but I will say that it's worse to drive stoned than many other ways--and safest to drive cold sober.-- Tom Aiello [email protected] SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Snowflake 0 #40 January 11, 2005 QuoteActually i think Hemp became illegal because DOW chemical developed some kind of synthetic that worked better. Before that Hemp was used for all kinds of shit. Nope!!!.......besides Hearst, Mellon was concerned about all the money he had out to DuPont and the possibility of hemp derivitives as competition to DuPont products, so he jumped on the bandwagon with $$$$, but it was Hearst who had all the media control. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MC208B 0 #41 January 11, 2005 I favor legalization of all drugs (along with regulations and taxation like alcohol and tobacco) Off topic but relevant, I also favor leagalization of prostitution and all other victimless crimes. I also favor the Libertarian Party. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
78RATS 0 #42 January 11, 2005 Dow. Dupont. Same thing. Why you gotta hate on me? Don't you have some video editing to do? Rat for Life - Fly till I die When them stupid ass bitches ask why Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #43 January 11, 2005 QuoteBut I heard, from a friend of mine, that he thought he was safer driving on LSD than driving stoned. I am not trying to debate that driving stoned is a good idea. I am saying that the fears of driving under the influence of THC are, for the most part, unwarranted. I don't know, and don't want to know, if you have ever experienced a full dose of lysergic acid diethylamide (LSD), but anyone who tells you they feel safer driving on acid as opposed to after smoking some pot, has never experienced the effects of LSD. According to research of first hand accounts, it is an extremely powerful hallucinagen, and visual perceptions are highly distorted.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dqpacker 7 #44 January 11, 2005 I smoke when I drive and to this day never had an accident or been pulled over. Legalizing MJ and taxing it like ciggarites would lower our national debt. And as for hemp, it is the best plant for many things and should not be illegal. and whoever said that driving on lsd is easier than driving stoned is an idiot and has not done it and if they did use lsd while driving they probly where parked in their drive way trippin out. As Bob Marely Said "LEGALIZE IT DONT CRITTIZE IT" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #45 January 11, 2005 Quote"LEGALIZE IT DONT CRITTIZE IT" I think that was Peter Tosh. "Everytime I plant a seed, he say kill it before it grow. Kill them before they grow. So I shot the sherriff." --Bob MarleyMath tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dqpacker 7 #46 January 11, 2005 I think Bob Marely would have agreed with peter tosh. But bob did a cover of that song. thanks for correcting me Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jcd11235 0 #47 January 11, 2005 QuoteI think Bob Marely would have agreed with peter tosh. Wasn't Tosh one of the original Wailers? I think they probably saw eye to eye on a lot of things.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dqpacker 7 #48 January 11, 2005 As how we probley agree on this topic Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SpeedRacer 1 #49 January 11, 2005 QuoteI see absolutely no value or significant contribution to society in making "pot" illegal. It will has created more problems than it will has solved. There, fixed that for you! Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Snowflake 0 #50 January 12, 2005 Quote Dow. Dupont. Same thing. Why you gotta hate on me? Don't you have some video editing to do? I'm not hating the player I'm hating the game, yes I do have some more editing, but I can't output it until I upgrade my CPU Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 2 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
jcd11235 0 #47 January 11, 2005 QuoteI think Bob Marely would have agreed with peter tosh. Wasn't Tosh one of the original Wailers? I think they probably saw eye to eye on a lot of things.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dqpacker 7 #48 January 11, 2005 As how we probley agree on this topic Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #49 January 11, 2005 QuoteI see absolutely no value or significant contribution to society in making "pot" illegal. It will has created more problems than it will has solved. There, fixed that for you! Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Snowflake 0 #50 January 12, 2005 Quote Dow. Dupont. Same thing. Why you gotta hate on me? Don't you have some video editing to do? I'm not hating the player I'm hating the game, yes I do have some more editing, but I can't output it until I upgrade my CPU Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
