mikkey 0 #1 December 21, 2004 Here is an interesting article I saw in my local paper: http://www.theage.com.au/news/Iraq/Emails-confirm-Guantanamo-abuse-complaints/2004/12/21/1103391749668.html I am surprised how Americans can accept this behavior - especially when up to half the detainees have been released, i.e. must have been proven to be either innocent or very small fish. QuoteIn August, a Boston-based agent described tactics that were "not only aggressive but personally very upsetting". "On a couple of occasions, I entered interview rooms to find a detainee chained hand and foot in a foetal position on the floor, with no chair, food or water. Most times they had urinated or defecated on themselves, and had been left there for 18-24 hours or more." The agent also described Military Police manipulating the temperatures in detainees' cells. One was kept in air conditioning so frigid "the barefooted detainee was shaking with cold". "When I asked the MPs what was going on, I was told that interrogators from the day prior had ordered this treatment," the agent wrote. In another occasion the same agent saw an "almost unconscious" prisoner in a room where the temperature was "probably well over 100 degrees" - and a pile of his hair on the floor. The detainee "had apparently been literally pulling his hair out throughout the night". What if Americans would be treated like this in e.g. China? Is it OK because they are muslims? Just because they are suspects? (and yes they are just suspects or hundreds would not have been released in the last 12 months). The attitude that you can do with people what you want as long as they are not Americans will just make the US further alienated from other countries and result in more terrorists. How dare the US criticize other countries for human rights abuses? This is an absolute disgrace.--------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tunaplanet 0 #2 December 21, 2004 Been discussed dozens of times already. Maybe you can resume one of those threads. Nothing new to debate. Seems like yet another thread to spark controversy. Forty-two Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
juanesky 0 #3 December 21, 2004 Yep, no court martials, not indicments, no onw arrested.....sure, what else is new"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #4 December 21, 2004 Nothing much different than you would see in most drunk tanks on Saturday night. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikkey 0 #5 December 21, 2004 a) this is new information / evidence that has come to light. b) since when are you a moderator? c) funny comment thinking of threads started by you and your contributions in general. nuff said.--------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikkey 0 #6 December 21, 2004 Wow, 3 of the biggest right wing bullies jumping on a thread they don't like within 4 minutes of each other. --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #7 December 21, 2004 QuoteWow, 3 of the biggest right wing bullies jumping on a thread they don't like within 4 minutes of each other. And your only response is name calling. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #8 December 21, 2004 QuoteThe attitude that you can do with people what you want as long as they are not Americans will just make the US further alienated from other countries and result in more terrorists. How dare the US criticize other countries for human rights abuses? This is an absolute disgrace. yes, it is.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #9 December 21, 2004 No matter what you think of their tactics . . . no name calling.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #10 December 21, 2004 I don't know anyone who has spent two years in a drunk tank.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
downwardspiral 0 #11 December 21, 2004 http://www.mcsweeneys.net/2004/4/20sack.html Interrogation is a dirty business.www.FourWheelerHB.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #12 December 21, 2004 QuoteI don't know anyone who has spent two years in a drunk tank. Yep, by the time they make it to prison, they are subjected to even more horrible abuse like being passed around as a prostitute and beaten by guards and other inmates. Why no outrage about worldwide prison abuse? Ever seen the inside of a Mexican prison. It would make Gitmo look like a luxury resort. Where is the outrage? Is it because it's Muslims? Did you know white prisoners are repeatedly raped by black and hispanic prisoners because they consider it a "birth right"? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slug 1 #13 December 21, 2004 QuoteHere is an interesting article I saw in my local paper: http://www.theage.com.au/news/Iraq/Emails-confirm-Guantanamo-abuse-complaints/2004/12/21/1103391749668.html I am surprised how Americans can accept this behavior - especially when up to half the detainees have been released, i.e. must have been proven to be either innocent or very small fish. the only problem I have with your post is that your implying that "all americans" can accept this behavior. Some americans do, some americans don't. believe it or not the US has made mistake's in the past and will continue to make more in the future. the only people who don't make mistakes are the people who don't do anything. This isn't justification for what the US has done it's just the reality. Justice moves slowly, lets see what history says. R.I.P. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,396 #14 December 21, 2004 Funny how far we've come as a country in just a few years. We used to be outraged by torture. Now it's "yeah, so we tortured some people, big deal. Everyone else is doing it. They were probably bad people anyway." Often we are seen as leaders in the world; sad that we are now leaders in this. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gravitymaster 0 #15 December 21, 2004 QuoteFunny how far we've come as a country in just a few years. We used to be outraged by torture. Now it's "yeah, so we tortured some people, big deal. Everyone else is doing it. They were probably bad people anyway." Often we are seen as leaders in the world; sad that we are now leaders in this. Actually we just don't care about people who try to kill us. You find that sad? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jcd11235 0 #16 December 21, 2004 QuoteActually we just don't care about people who try to kill us. You find that sad? Refusing due process to the accused is simply barbaric, by standards of any free country. Personally, I am outraged by my government's hypocrisy.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,396 #17 December 21, 2004 >Actually we just don't care about people who try to kill us. You find that sad? No; I find it sad that we torture people and later release them because we had no evidence whatsoever that they tried to kill us. Most people in the world are against both torture and jailing of innocent people; we've managed to do both at the same time. Let's hope China doesn't follow our lead next time we have an aircrew downed over there. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gravitymaster 0 #18 December 21, 2004 Quote>Actually we just don't care about people who try to kill us. You find that sad? No; I find it sad that we torture people and later release them because we had no evidence whatsoever that they tried to kill us. Most people in the world are against both torture and jailing of innocent people; we've managed to do both at the same time. Let's hope China doesn't follow our lead next time we have an aircrew downed over there. Oh, yeah. I'm sure all the terroristsa and Taliban at Gitmo are just there because of a mistaken identity. They were probably just standing around minding their own business when someone asked them to hold a weapon for them and told them those were deer hiding in the bushes, not US Troops. Every ruling on the prisoners at Gitmo by the Supreme Court has been followed. Oh, thats right, you don't like the Supreme Court when you don't agree with its' opinion. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gravitymaster 0 #19 December 21, 2004 QuoteQuoteActually we just don't care about people who try to kill us. You find that sad? Refusing due process to the accused is simply barbaric, by standards of any free country. Personally, I am outraged by my government's hypocrisy. How about all the other countries that engage in abuses of human rights. You know, like the countries that head the UN Human Rights Committees and torture innocent people at home. How come they aren't included in the outrage? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,396 #20 December 21, 2004 >Oh, yeah. I'm sure all the terroristsa and Taliban at Gitmo are just > there because of a mistaken identity. As a great many have been released because we couldn't find them guilty of anything, even under our new "guilty until proven innocent" rules - yes, they were taken by mistake. And we admitted it when we releaed them. >Every ruling on the prisoners at Gitmo by the Supreme Court has >been followed. Oh, thats right, you don't like the Supreme Court > when you don't agree with its' opinion. Don't know if you've been following this closely, but much of the debate around Gitmo centers around the administration's claims that the civil rights protections of our constitution and our courts do NOT apply. Claiming that Gitmo is following all SC rulings is like claiming Jiffy Lube is following all FAA rules on cars. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jcd11235 0 #21 December 21, 2004 QuoteHow about all the other countries that engage in abuses of human rights. You know, like the countries that head the UN Human Rights Committees and torture innocent people at home. How come they aren't included in the outrage? Primarily, they were not mentioned due to the fact that you are the first to bring them up in this particular thread, and I am not psychic to what you might ask next.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gravitymaster 0 #22 December 21, 2004 QuoteQuoteHow about all the other countries that engage in abuses of human rights. You know, like the countries that head the UN Human Rights Committees and torture innocent people at home. How come they aren't included in the outrage? Primarily, they were not mentioned due to the fact that you are the first to bring them up in this particular thread, and I am not psychic to what you might ask next. I brought up prisoner abuse in the US and other countries earlier in this thread before you expressed your latest outrage at our govt. Perhaps you only care about govt abuse of prisoners when it suits you? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jcd11235 0 #23 December 21, 2004 QuoteI brought up prisoner abuse in the US and other countries earlier in this thread before you expressed your latest outrage at our govt. Perhaps you only care about govt abuse of prisoners when it suits you? Sorry. Your use of plurals was a bit misleading, until I found your reference to mexican jails. Yeah, well, I guess if you want to compare us to a developing country, go ahead. I would prefer to hold My government to a higher standard. How can you say with a straight face that we have a superior government system, but we need to completely disregard that system when it comes to justice. It's such hypocrisy. I can't believe so many people are blind to what is right in front of them.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gravitymaster 0 #24 December 21, 2004 QuoteI can't believe so many people are blind to what is right in front of them. Yep, me neither http://www.papillonsartpalace.com/afgthans.htm Several prisoners released by the U.S. military from a detention center in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, have rejoined their comrades in arms and taken part in fresh attacks on U.S. forces, according to Defense Department officials and a senior GOP lawmaker. "We've already had instances where we know that people who have been released from our detention have gone back and have become combatants again," Rep. Porter Goss (R-Fla.), chairman of the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence told United Press International recently. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jcd11235 0 #25 December 21, 2004 QuoteSeveral prisoners released by the U.S. military from a detention center in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, have rejoined their comrades in arms and taken part in fresh attacks on U.S. forces, according to Defense Department officials and a senior GOP lawmaker. Sounds like a small minority to me. In our justice system, we err in favor of the defendant. That's what makes us civilised.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 Next Page 1 of 4 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
billvon 2,396 #14 December 21, 2004 Funny how far we've come as a country in just a few years. We used to be outraged by torture. Now it's "yeah, so we tortured some people, big deal. Everyone else is doing it. They were probably bad people anyway." Often we are seen as leaders in the world; sad that we are now leaders in this. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #15 December 21, 2004 QuoteFunny how far we've come as a country in just a few years. We used to be outraged by torture. Now it's "yeah, so we tortured some people, big deal. Everyone else is doing it. They were probably bad people anyway." Often we are seen as leaders in the world; sad that we are now leaders in this. Actually we just don't care about people who try to kill us. You find that sad? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #16 December 21, 2004 QuoteActually we just don't care about people who try to kill us. You find that sad? Refusing due process to the accused is simply barbaric, by standards of any free country. Personally, I am outraged by my government's hypocrisy.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,396 #17 December 21, 2004 >Actually we just don't care about people who try to kill us. You find that sad? No; I find it sad that we torture people and later release them because we had no evidence whatsoever that they tried to kill us. Most people in the world are against both torture and jailing of innocent people; we've managed to do both at the same time. Let's hope China doesn't follow our lead next time we have an aircrew downed over there. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #18 December 21, 2004 Quote>Actually we just don't care about people who try to kill us. You find that sad? No; I find it sad that we torture people and later release them because we had no evidence whatsoever that they tried to kill us. Most people in the world are against both torture and jailing of innocent people; we've managed to do both at the same time. Let's hope China doesn't follow our lead next time we have an aircrew downed over there. Oh, yeah. I'm sure all the terroristsa and Taliban at Gitmo are just there because of a mistaken identity. They were probably just standing around minding their own business when someone asked them to hold a weapon for them and told them those were deer hiding in the bushes, not US Troops. Every ruling on the prisoners at Gitmo by the Supreme Court has been followed. Oh, thats right, you don't like the Supreme Court when you don't agree with its' opinion. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #19 December 21, 2004 QuoteQuoteActually we just don't care about people who try to kill us. You find that sad? Refusing due process to the accused is simply barbaric, by standards of any free country. Personally, I am outraged by my government's hypocrisy. How about all the other countries that engage in abuses of human rights. You know, like the countries that head the UN Human Rights Committees and torture innocent people at home. How come they aren't included in the outrage? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,396 #20 December 21, 2004 >Oh, yeah. I'm sure all the terroristsa and Taliban at Gitmo are just > there because of a mistaken identity. As a great many have been released because we couldn't find them guilty of anything, even under our new "guilty until proven innocent" rules - yes, they were taken by mistake. And we admitted it when we releaed them. >Every ruling on the prisoners at Gitmo by the Supreme Court has >been followed. Oh, thats right, you don't like the Supreme Court > when you don't agree with its' opinion. Don't know if you've been following this closely, but much of the debate around Gitmo centers around the administration's claims that the civil rights protections of our constitution and our courts do NOT apply. Claiming that Gitmo is following all SC rulings is like claiming Jiffy Lube is following all FAA rules on cars. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #21 December 21, 2004 QuoteHow about all the other countries that engage in abuses of human rights. You know, like the countries that head the UN Human Rights Committees and torture innocent people at home. How come they aren't included in the outrage? Primarily, they were not mentioned due to the fact that you are the first to bring them up in this particular thread, and I am not psychic to what you might ask next.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #22 December 21, 2004 QuoteQuoteHow about all the other countries that engage in abuses of human rights. You know, like the countries that head the UN Human Rights Committees and torture innocent people at home. How come they aren't included in the outrage? Primarily, they were not mentioned due to the fact that you are the first to bring them up in this particular thread, and I am not psychic to what you might ask next. I brought up prisoner abuse in the US and other countries earlier in this thread before you expressed your latest outrage at our govt. Perhaps you only care about govt abuse of prisoners when it suits you? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #23 December 21, 2004 QuoteI brought up prisoner abuse in the US and other countries earlier in this thread before you expressed your latest outrage at our govt. Perhaps you only care about govt abuse of prisoners when it suits you? Sorry. Your use of plurals was a bit misleading, until I found your reference to mexican jails. Yeah, well, I guess if you want to compare us to a developing country, go ahead. I would prefer to hold My government to a higher standard. How can you say with a straight face that we have a superior government system, but we need to completely disregard that system when it comes to justice. It's such hypocrisy. I can't believe so many people are blind to what is right in front of them.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #24 December 21, 2004 QuoteI can't believe so many people are blind to what is right in front of them. Yep, me neither http://www.papillonsartpalace.com/afgthans.htm Several prisoners released by the U.S. military from a detention center in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, have rejoined their comrades in arms and taken part in fresh attacks on U.S. forces, according to Defense Department officials and a senior GOP lawmaker. "We've already had instances where we know that people who have been released from our detention have gone back and have become combatants again," Rep. Porter Goss (R-Fla.), chairman of the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence told United Press International recently. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #25 December 21, 2004 QuoteSeveral prisoners released by the U.S. military from a detention center in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, have rejoined their comrades in arms and taken part in fresh attacks on U.S. forces, according to Defense Department officials and a senior GOP lawmaker. Sounds like a small minority to me. In our justice system, we err in favor of the defendant. That's what makes us civilised.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
