PhillyKev 0 #51 December 21, 2004 QuoteThat speaks of little regard for the judgment of others in general - another "unconscious bias" as it were. I don't think you're really that way - just fatalistic about this subject. No, I learn from experience. It's been my experience that when an employer or client is trying to decide between two otherwise equal candidates, it WILL come down to their overall, subjective impression of that person. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #52 December 21, 2004 QuoteNext Washington Post Header - Rummy installs office in armored HumVee parks in DC swimming pool parking lot - signs letters while crying all over his tuxedo. Now that is funny."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChasingBlueSky 0 #53 December 21, 2004 Quote Say you were on a business trip, with your co-workers, not clients... say you want to have an informal discussion with the group (again, no clients), say over breakfast on the pooldeck, a few hours before you had to be anywhere... would you ware shorts and a t-shirt, or kakhis and golf shirt? What if the picture was Ridge sitting by the pool in a suit? I'll bet a lot of the comments would sound something like, "What a stuffed shirt that guy is, he can't even relax in Hawaii" JBefore I left my last company they were planning a biz trip to Hawaii. It is partially a "thank you" to the top sales people, but it is also a professional setting. I saw the agenda before I left - it had a note at the bottom of the page: "All business on trip will be conducted in business professional attire." The location didn't matter (this was a publicly traded, $1.7B company). I tend to agree with that policy. I show up in comfortable, but professional clothes for breakfast meetings, lunch meetings and after work drinks. I've yet to have a meeting on a pooldeck. This is funny - for once I am supporting and old, conservative belief and the conservatives are fighting me on it!_________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #54 December 21, 2004 QuoteThis is funny - for once I am supporting and old, conservative belief and the conservatives are fighting me on it! No kidding....what the hell is going on? Guess it's liberal now to wear a white shirt to work. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #55 December 21, 2004 you guys - it's not an old, conservative, position, it's a position of content vs character. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #56 December 21, 2004 Quoteyou guys - it's not an old, conservative, position, it's a position of content vs character. No, it's a position of understanding human psyche and taking every opportunity to gain competetive advantage. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tunaplanet 0 #57 December 21, 2004 QuoteNo, it's a position of understanding human psyche and taking every opportunity to gain competetive advantage. Negative. Forty-two Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #58 December 21, 2004 QuoteQuoteNo, it's a position of understanding human psyche and taking every opportunity to gain competetive advantage. Negative. Positive. See, I can be argumentative, non-informative, and add nothing to the conversation too. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #59 December 21, 2004 QuoteThis is funny - for once I am supporting and old, conservative belief and the conservatives are fighting me on it!Tongue Bizzarro thread.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChasingBlueSky 0 #60 December 21, 2004 Quote it's a position of content vs character. I argued the same thing during my metal/grunge days with my long hair and flannel shirts. The argument is not lost on me - the clothes do not make the man, but business is business._________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChasingBlueSky 0 #61 December 21, 2004 Quote Positive. See, I can be argumentative, non-informative, and add nothing to the conversation too. You went beyond a one word answer - you need to study harder._________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #62 December 21, 2004 QuoteNo, it's a position of understanding human psyche and taking every opportunity to gain competetive advantage. This is just to funny. You are supporting stereo types here, but slam them everywhere else. Man this is funny."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,380 #63 December 21, 2004 >Once upon a time - buisnesss was actually conducted with scruples and integrity. Ah, the good old days. The neighbor's grass sure is greener, and they don't make em like they used to. Nothing has really changed over the years. Think we're too much into living on credit nowadays? Check out what caused the 1929 stock market crash. Think we're loose and immoral now? Google "the flappers." Think we used to have integrity? Look up the "40 acres and a mule" promise our government made a lot of people. You find what you look for. I've found a great deal of integrity out there - people I could give $2000 cash to and tell them to just deliver what I ordered sometime, without a receipt or check carbon. I've met engineers who will work for me just because I asked them to, and agreed to deal with the paperwork later. I've also worked with people (and companies) where it's a good idea to check your wallet before you leave. The longer you live, the more unscrupulous people you meet, so it can seem that the world is going to hell in a handbasket. But it has far more to do with our perception of what the world is like than what it really _is_ like. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #64 December 21, 2004 Quote> I've also worked with people (and companies) where it's a good idea to check your wallet before you leave. Those are the ones wearing new blue jeans, tennis shoes and a button down shirt. You would be much better off going somewhere where they have on Dockers and Rockports, or even suits next time. You'll learn this as you get older and more experienced. or so I'm told. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #65 December 21, 2004 I never once said there was any validity to the thought process that better dressed employees do a better job or are more trustworthy. What I said was that when given the choice between two equal contenders, human nature will nudge you toward choosing the one that left you with a better impression. It's a fact. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #66 December 21, 2004 I understand what you say and realize we are actually agreeing on all the points. It's more fun to argue though. Also, we are not unique in this, rather the norm. What I don't agree with is the tacit acceptance that it can't change. Human nature will drive business decision that help the bottom line. Don't allow your clients to see you as equal contenders. Do something substantial to set yourself apart. I don't want to 'break the tie', I want to be the preferred vendor. QuoteI never once said there was any validity to the thought process that better dressed employees do a better job or are more trustworthy. So here you are saying your customers are stupid and you can con them into giving you business with some pretty clothing. I also doubt that, my impression is you'd likely get business due to high quality of work and how you treat them. You can't fool me, you care about your community, so likely you care as much about your work. (as long as the staff is clean and not messy - a far cry from 'business formal') ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #67 December 21, 2004 QuoteSo here you are saying your customers are stupid and you can con them into giving you business with some pretty clothing. No, since I'm attributing it to human nature, I think what I'm saying is that they are human. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,380 #68 December 21, 2004 >Those are the ones wearing new blue jeans, tennis shoes and a button >down shirt. You would be much better off going somewhere where they > have on Dockers and Rockports, or even suits next time. I've noticed the opposite, actually. The guy in the suit with the shiny shoes and the slicked back hair is the one that later claims that we did not meet section 6 subpart 2 of the letter of intent and thus they have no obligation to complete the code (unless we renegotiate the terms, of course.) >You'll learn this as you get older and more experienced. If I get any older or more experienced I'll be dead! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,620 #69 December 21, 2004 QuoteIf this is turning into a "what are you wearing now?" type of thread, then I'm putting in a request to move it to Bonfire. I'm wearing jeans, a tee shirt, and sneakers (see avatar). Yes, I am at work.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,620 #70 December 21, 2004 Quote >You'll learn this as you get older and more experienced. If I get any older or more experienced I'll be dead! You're just a kid! I'm a card carrying AARP member. Packing Cathy even gave me a discount on pack jobs.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #71 December 21, 2004 QuoteQuoteIf this is turning into a "what are you wearing now?" type of thread, then I'm putting in a request to move it to Bonfire. I'm wearing jeans, a tee shirt, and sneakers (see avatar). Yes, I am at work. How unprofessional! You should really be ashamed! ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #72 December 21, 2004 Quote>I've noticed the opposite, actually. The guy in the suit with the shiny shoes and the slicked back hair is the one that later claims that we did not meet section 6 subpart 2 of the letter of intent and thus they have no obligation to complete the code (unless we renegotiate the terms, of course.) If I get any older or more experienced I'll be dead! 1 - Sorry, I forgot the little sarcasm face. 2 - Everyone who gets older is not dead. Only those that cease getting older. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,620 #73 December 21, 2004 QuoteQuoteQuoteIf this is turning into a "what are you wearing now?" type of thread, then I'm putting in a request to move it to Bonfire. I'm wearing jeans, a tee shirt, and sneakers (see avatar). Yes, I am at work. How unprofessional! You should really be ashamed! I don't need to be professional, I just need to be professorial.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
