Botellines 0 #1 December 12, 2004 Clicky BAGHDAD, Iraq - A U.S. soldier was sentenced to three years in prison after pleading guilty to killing a severely wounded Iraqi teenager, the military said Saturday. advertisement Staff Sgt. Johnny M. Horne Jr., 30, of Winston-Salem, N.C., also received a reduction in rank to private, forfeiture of wages and a dishonorable discharge. Horne, attached to Company C, 1st Battalion, 41st Infantry Regiment, based in Fort Riley, Kan., pleaded guilty to one count of unpremeditated murder and one count of soliciting another soldier to commit unpremeditated murder. The charges relate to the Aug. 18 killing of a 16-year-old Iraqi male found in a burning truck with severe abdominal wounds sustained during clashes in Baghdad’s Sadr City, an impoverished neighborhood that was the scene of fierce fighting between U.S. forces and Shiite rebels loyal to anti-U.S. cleric Muqtada al-Sadr. A criminal investigator said during an earlier hearing that the soldiers decided to kill him to “put him out of his misery.” The military said in a statement that a jury-like panel of seven service members issued the sentence Friday night after about four hours of deliberations. Horne is among six Fort Riley soldiers charged with killings in recent months — two for slayings in Kansas and four for deaths in Iraq. Staff Sgt. Cardenas J. Alban, 29, of Inglewood, Calif., is charged along with Horne in the teenager’s killing and is awaiting a court-martial hearing. Two other soldiers from the same unit this week faced Article 32 hearings — the military equivalent of a grand jury hearing — over a Sadr City killing in August. An Article 32 hearing was held Thursday for Sgt. Michael P. Williams, 25, of Memphis, Tenn., on charges of premeditated murder, obstruction of justice and making a false official statement. Also charged is Spc. Brent May, 22, of Salem, Ohio, who had a two-day hearing and is awaiting a ruling on whether he will be court-martialed, receive a lesser penalty or be acquitted. -------------------------------- Does anyone else think that this sentence is a joke? I mean, 3 years only for puting the Iraky out of misery? and how come he is being charged for unpremeditated murder when he shoot the poor guy "to put him out of his misery"? I can see some double standards here... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #2 December 12, 2004 I don't really understand your question. If the soldiers were telling it as it was then I can well understand them shooting the man in the truck. In fact in the same situation I'd hope someone would shoot me. However, justice must be seen to be done and if these men are innocent then they will be found so. Unfortunatly I don't think the law takes into consideration mercy killings. As this is a high profile case that has international ramifications I think three years is the least they could have been sentenced to. It will be interesting to see if the sentence stands on appeal.When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #3 December 12, 2004 QuoteI don't really understand your question. If the soldiers were telling it as it was then I can well understand them shooting the man in the truck. In fact in the same situation I'd hope someone would shoot me. However, justice must be seen to be done and if these men are innocent then they will be found so. Unfortunatly I don't think the law takes into consideration mercy killings. As this is a high profile case that has international ramifications I think three years is the least they could have been sentenced to. It will be interesting to see if the sentence stands on appeal. Dr. Kevorkian got 10 - 25 years for mercy killing, and his victims requested to be killed.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
killler 2 #4 December 12, 2004 It is a joke..... It's like giving speeding tickets at the daytona 500..... War is dirty and nasty.... You cut some guy down with a M-60 and then give him a band-aid? People need to get real.... It makes me LOL at the bullcrap that is in the news and what people thing war is all about.... Till you stand the post and do the nasty.... "YOU HAVE NO SAY" to how a soldier does his job..... Killer..... 2/75 rangers Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #5 December 12, 2004 QuoteBAGHDAD, Iraq - A U.S. soldier was sentenced to three years in prison after pleading guilty to killing a severely wounded Iraqi teenager, the military said Saturday It will be interesting to hear what the "Hang-em-High or Let-em-Fry" folks from Texas and Florida think of a 3 year sentence for murder.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #6 December 12, 2004 "Till you stand the post and do the nasty.... "YOU HAVE NO SAY" to how a soldier does his job..... " Errr........I think you'll find thats how it used to be in Iraq (When it was a dictatorship) However we live in a democracy which means that everyone has a say! When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tunaplanet 0 #7 December 12, 2004 QuoteIt's like giving speeding tickets at the daytona 500 First time I've heard that analogy. Fits perfectly for this situation. The day soldiers start to be questioned, put under a microscope and grilled everytime they kill in combat is a sad day for not only the military but for you and I as well. I'll go ahead and speak for those that have never served...you do not want this. Trust me when I say this. Forty-two Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Botellines 0 #8 December 12, 2004 Sorry, my post may not have been as clear as it should. I think it is a extremely light condemn. No matter if the guy was an innocent bystander or a member from the insurgency, once he is wounded and disarmed and do not pose any threat, it is a murder to kill him. It was just an execution who has been punished only with three years of jail. A sentence in the line of abu-grahib etc, etc. Until the U.S military stops doing this short of things or the U.S judicial system starts punishing those acts as if the victim was american, no one will see the U.S as the "good guys" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nate_1979 9 #9 December 12, 2004 QuoteIt is a joke..... It's like giving speeding tickets at the daytona 500..... War is dirty and nasty.... You cut some guy down with a M-60 and then give him a band-aid? People need to get real.... It makes me LOL at the bullcrap that is in the news and what people thing war is all about.... Till you stand the post and do the nasty.... "YOU HAVE NO SAY" to how a soldier does his job..... Killer..... 2/75 rangers I agree.. If you are NOT over in Iraq, a place where people are trying to kill you every day, a place where people who look inocent suddenly blow themselves and you up, you have NO right to judge how a solder acts, this case is unique with the "Mercy killing" aspect of it, however some of these others, how are you to know that the solder was not in fear of his life, who is anybody sitting in there house with a nice warm cup of coffee to determine whether he made a good or bad decision under the pressure that exsist over there.. We send our people to war, then sentence them for killing people? Seriously... And they say that THEY are fucked up... FGF #??? I miss the sky... There are 10 types of people in the world... those who understand binary and those who don't. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nate_1979 9 #10 December 12, 2004 Quote I think it is a extremely light condemn. No matter if the guy was an innocent bystander or a member from the insurgency, once he is wounded and disarmed and do not pose any threat, it is a murder to kill him. I'm just gonna stress once again HOW MANY OF OUR SOLDERS HAVE BEEN KILLED BY PEOPLE WHO SEEMED "INNOCENT, DISARMED, AND NOT TO POSE ANY THREAT" .. They have got alot to worry about, and they are under more pressure than ANY OF US who have not been there can even begin to understand. FGF #??? I miss the sky... There are 10 types of people in the world... those who understand binary and those who don't. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Botellines 0 #11 December 12, 2004 QuoteWar is dirty and nasty.... You cut some guy down with a M-60 and then give him a band-aid? No, you can finish him off if you want. War is war, but it works both ways, when the insurgency starts finishing off your soldiers, i really hope you still say that war is dirty and lightly joke about giving them band-aids. How can it be so dificult to grasp that the U.S will not win this war until they bring the iraqui population to their side. You are just tossing granades at your forces. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tunaplanet 0 #12 December 12, 2004 I've noticed you are referring to war quite a bit and talking about what it is like. Have you ever served in the military and ever been in combat? Forty-two Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #13 December 12, 2004 I'm have been critical of millitary overkill and illegal acts. However, each case must be tried on its merits if I'm understanding correctly these men found a youth alive in a burning truck with his guts spilling out and were unable to get to him. Sounds bad eh? Well, I can asure you the reality of someone in this state is far worse than anything one can imagine. I can not find it in me to condem these soldiers in this senario and further I belive I may well have taken the same course of action in similar circumstances. Thats not to say I condone the killing of prisoners but niether to I blanket condem it either, it just depends on circumstance and operational requirements.When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,121 #14 December 12, 2004 QuoteI've noticed you are referring to war quite a bit and talking about what it is like. Have you ever served in the military and ever been in combat? hey Tuna, you had no problem giving your opinion over on the death penalty thread. Does that mean you ahve been on death row and have been sentenced to death before? This whole, you can't talk about it unless you have been there is such a load of crock. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,121 #15 December 12, 2004 QuoteI'm have been critical of millitary overkill and illegal acts. However, each case must be tried on its merits if I'm understanding correctly these men found a youth alive in a burning truck with his guts spilling out and were unable to get to him. Sounds bad eh? Well, I can asure you the reality of someone in this state is far worse than anything one can imagine. I can not find it in me to condem these soldiers in this senario and further I belive I may well have taken the same course of action in similar circumstances. Thats not to say I condone the killing of prisoners but niether to I blanket condem it either, it just depends on circumstance and operational requirements. I am assuming you would have been okay with it if he had shot a US soldier in the same circumstances? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nate_1979 9 #16 December 12, 2004 QuoteQuoteI've noticed you are referring to war quite a bit and talking about what it is like. Have you ever served in the military and ever been in combat? hey Tuna, you had no problem giving your opinion over on the death penalty thread. Does that mean you ahve been on death row and have been sentenced to death before? This whole, you can't talk about it unless you have been there is such a load of crock. You can talk about it all you want... Does not mean that you have the right to judge someones actions especially in a stressful environment like WAR. Like they said WAR is ugly, BAD THINGS HAPPEN.. I wish we didnt have to have it, but that's just not the world we live in.. Putting a solder who was fighting for his country and REALLY FELT HE WAS DOING THE RIGHT THING is just WRONG. FGF #??? I miss the sky... There are 10 types of people in the world... those who understand binary and those who don't. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nate_1979 9 #17 December 12, 2004 QuoteQuoteI'm have been critical of millitary overkill and illegal acts. However, each case must be tried on its merits if I'm understanding correctly these men found a youth alive in a burning truck with his guts spilling out and were unable to get to him. Sounds bad eh? Well, I can asure you the reality of someone in this state is far worse than anything one can imagine. I can not find it in me to condem these soldiers in this senario and further I belive I may well have taken the same course of action in similar circumstances. Thats not to say I condone the killing of prisoners but niether to I blanket condem it either, it just depends on circumstance and operational requirements. I am assuming you would have been okay with it if he had shot a US soldier in the same circumstances? If it was as bad as the post says it was, If I saw one of my friends suffering to the point that I honestly didnt think he would make it, I would probably do the same.. i would hope someone would do the same for me as well (as previosly posted again).. In the proper circumstances I would be alright with a situation like that. IMO... FGF #??? I miss the sky... There are 10 types of people in the world... those who understand binary and those who don't. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #18 December 12, 2004 If the senario had been reversed then yes I have no problem with that as I've already said If I had been the youth looking at my guts while in a burning truck then I'd rather be shot as well. How about you would you rather burn?When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,121 #19 December 12, 2004 QuoteIf the senario had been reversed then yes I have no problem with that as I've already said If I had been the youth looking at my guts while in a burning truck then I'd rather be shot as well. How about you would you rather burn? Well, this soldier must have changed his mind after the fact, since he pleaded guilty. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nate_1979 9 #20 December 12, 2004 Quote Well, this soldier must have changed his mind after the fact, since he pleaded guilty. They pleaded guilty, and gave a reason for doing it.. A reason I feel may have been valid. Once again, guilty for being involved in a war, that sucks. FGF #??? I miss the sky... There are 10 types of people in the world... those who understand binary and those who don't. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,121 #21 December 12, 2004 QuoteThey pleaded guilty, and gave a reason for doing it.. A reason I feel may have been valid. Once again, guilty for being involved in a war, that sucks. It was his own military that went after him....must be Clinton's fault. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #22 December 12, 2004 He pleaded guilty because he did it. I don't belive that what he did was wrong in this circumstance. Seems to me the most humane thing they could have done if the facts are as they said.When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nate_1979 9 #23 December 12, 2004 Quote It was his own military that went after him....must be Clinton's fault. Great, yea, way to go.. Let's bring up something completely unrealated and use that, who said shit about clinton.. And yes, it is sad that the military goes after it's own for stupid shit like this isnt it? You would think the military would understand war, but it's really not the military if you look at it.. It's all a bunch of dirty politics, .. Gotta make the Gov't and Military look better, who cares if we stomp on some little enlisted military puke, ruin his life forever because he got involved in a war, they are replacable right? Got plunty of them signing up every day. This kind of crap just makes me sick. I'm going jumping, y'all have fun with this FGF #??? I miss the sky... There are 10 types of people in the world... those who understand binary and those who don't. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
killler 2 #24 December 12, 2004 Just for the record.... It is not uncommon for soldiers to "kill" fellow soldiers that need help getting there.... It's been like that from the start of time and will always be that way.... Almost every soldier has had this talk with their fellow soldiers.... We just don't share it with those who don't understand it.... Killer..... 2/75 rangers Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slug 1 #25 December 12, 2004 QuoteHe pleaded guilty because he did it. I don't belive that what he did was wrong in this circumstance. Seems to me the most humane thing they could have done if the facts are as they said. I think he pleaded guilty because he was overchaged premedatated murder etc and was looking at serving a very very long time if he went to trial and was found guilty. The thing I don't understand is who reported this guy to begin with Anyone have intel of this As you were 41 R.I.P. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
