freethefly 6 #1 December 9, 2004 http://www.damageplan.com/ Murdered by crazed gunman Some of you may have never heard his name, but you most likely heard his amazing thrash riffs in the band he founded "Pantera". Everyday, another shame"...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #2 December 9, 2004 There's 2 threads in Bonfire going on about it currently.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freethefly 6 #3 December 9, 2004 first place I came when I signed on, sorry."...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #4 December 9, 2004 No worries. If you want to get the ball rolling, blame the gun for the shooting and then blame video games for the shooter thinking violence is ok.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #5 December 9, 2004 QuoteIf you want to get the ball rolling, blame the gun for the shooting... Only if you give equal credit to the gun in the hand of the police officer which stopped the shooter and saved many lives! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tunaplanet 0 #6 December 9, 2004 QuoteOnly if you give equal credit to the gun in the hand of the police officer which stopped the shooter and saved many lives! Agreed. He was extremely brave. He went into the situation with no backup and killed the shooter while he had a hostage. The hostage lived. True hero. Forty-two Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #7 December 9, 2004 I'll bet he owned an SUV also. Those things kill too you know... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tunaplanet 0 #8 December 9, 2004 Quotethe band he founded "Pantera". Him and his brother, the drummer, founded it. They then went on to form Damage Plan. Forty-two Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #9 December 9, 2004 QuoteOnly if you give equal credit to the gun in the hand of the police officer which stopped the shooter and saved many lives! No joke! Talk about a cop that "grabbed sack" and took control.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,121 #10 December 10, 2004 yeah, it is obvious to me that if only more people in the crowd had guns this would have never happened. I wonder what the perp thought about the death penalty before he committed this crime. Wonder how he overcame that huge deterrent? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EBSB52 0 #11 December 12, 2004 Quoteyeah, it is obvious to me that if only more people in the crowd had guns this would have never happened. I wonder what the perp thought about the death penalty before he committed this crime. Wonder how he overcame that huge deterrent? I never thought of that - let's segue into the DP threads! Great point. There are a lot of compelling facts here: 1. The guy was a kook 2. The cop was a hero 3. The guns had the least to do with this, it was the people 4. The kook gave zero consideration to the thought of spending his life behind bars or dying by lethal injection or by being shot by a cop or anyone else. CONCLUSION: deterrence wasn't represented here. Of course the DP proponents would say you never see the benefits of DP deterrence because they are crimes that are not committed. The retort to that is that they have yet to produce 1 person, let alone bunches of them that claim they decided not to kill, or they moved to a non-CP state to kill due to the deterrence of the DP. Furthermore, DP deterrence, if effective (which I dispute), only has relevance between life w/o parole and death, which is a slim margin. Also, the element of choice must be present with any deterrence, so deterrence, if effective only has a general affect and not specific or special. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tunaplanet 0 #12 December 12, 2004 QuoteThe kook gave zero consideration to the thought of spending his life behind bars or dying by lethal injection How do you know that? Did you interview him before he commited the crime? Did you talk to him after he died? Forty-two Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EBSB52 0 #13 December 12, 2004 QuoteQuoteThe kook gave zero consideration to the thought of spending his life behind bars or dying by lethal injection How do you know that? Did you interview him before he commited the crime? Did you talk to him after he died? Actions. If he did give consideration, then he may have wanted to die, because just like Bush with Iraq, he had no apparent exit plan. Put it this way, based on what is obvious with his actions, the presence of execution didn't deter him. Last time I checked Ohio has the DP. http://www.drc.state.oh.us/public/capital.htm This refers to another thread with much discussion, but the US used to execute minors. http://www.ohiodeathrow.com/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tunaplanet 0 #14 December 12, 2004 Yeah, yeah. You can talk all you'd like but the bottom line you nor anyone else has a clue as to what he was thinking in regards to wether or not he was concerned about the death penalty....unless you have somehow figured out a way to read minds overnight. Forty-two Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #15 December 12, 2004 Did the cop play video games as well?When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,121 #16 December 12, 2004 QuoteYeah, yeah. You can talk all you'd like but the bottom line you nor anyone else has a clue as to what he was thinking in regards to wether or not he was concerned about the death penalty....unless you have somehow figured out a way to read minds overnight. fact remained that even if he thought about it, it wasn't deterent enough to stop him. Don't have to read minds to figure that one out. I suggest you put your self proclaimed outstanding critical thinking skills to the test...... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tunaplanet 0 #17 December 12, 2004 Quotefact remained that even if he thought about it Not the point. The point is EBSB said the, "Kook gave zero consideration." That is impossible for him to know....unless like I stated before he somehow has figured out not only how to read minds but to somehow obtain the exact percentage of critical thinking the man had pertaining to deterrance. Forty-two Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,121 #18 December 12, 2004 QuoteNot the point. The point is EBSB said the, "Kook gave zero consideration." That is impossible for him to know....unless like I stated before he somehow has figured out not only how to read minds but to somehow obtain the exact percentage of critical thinking the man had pertaining to deterrance. End result is the same. Death penalty and the possibility of others owning a gun did not deter this man from comitting his crime. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tunaplanet 0 #19 December 12, 2004 QuoteDeath penalty and the possibility of others owning a gun did not deter this man from comitting his crime. The key words in your statement is, "did not deter this man. Forty-two Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,121 #20 December 12, 2004 QuoteThe key words in your statement is, "did not deter this man. If it is such a strong deterrent as the pro-gun and pro-DP crowd seems to believe, how come so many people get murdered in the US? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tunaplanet 0 #21 December 12, 2004 It is a deterrent. But deterrance isn't the point of the death penalty. Punishment is the purpose. Forty-two Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
