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Deyan

A moral question

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A customers walks in and asks for a major repair on his rig. ( chest strap replacement, leg straps replacement etc.) The last repack is still valid and the customer doesn't want to pay for a new one. He only want the repair to be done. Would you do it?! (The last repack is done by another rigger.)

I voted NO!

Please click on the first two options if you are rigger. For those of you who want to vote, but are not riggers, I made the third and fourth option ;)
"My belief is that once the doctor whacks you on the butt, all guarantees are off" Jerry Baumchen

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Why did you ask it as a moral question instead of as a legal question?

-Mark



Legal according to whom? FAA, BPA, DFV, KNVvL, BgPA, FFdP, CSPA, APF?
What's legal for someone, might not be legal for others, but since you are asking, is it legal according to FAA?

Cheers
"My belief is that once the doctor whacks you on the butt, all guarantees are off" Jerry Baumchen

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Why would you want to pull the reserve out for a simple chest and leg strap replacement? :|
That`s neither a moral nor a legal question, that`s a question about willingness to deal with the little extra work a packed reserve tray is going to add to basic harness work.
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To absent friends

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Deyan

is it legal according to FAA?



Yes. Although as Mr. Pobrause noted, it's frequently easier to take maneuver things if the reserve is out of the pack tray, in which case it's getting repacked.

-Mark

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I voted no but you need a maybe. There has been work where I've told customers that I will TRY not to open the reserve. (i.e. BOC replacement) But if I need to I will. No option, no debate. I decide. Or they go down the road. For your examples I probably wouldn't even try to leave it in.

I suppose if it could be done but would take twice as long you/I could charge twice as much but I'm not into making my job harder.:)
I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

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Sure. I'd just tell the customer he/she'll also need a repack if I need the container open to do a clean repair.

Just because the customer wants to save $70 (or whatever a reserve repack costs) doesn't change the nature of the work requested.

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Same here as Betzilla and Councilman.

Maneuvering a rig with a packed reserve under the machine can be a pain. And may cost the customer a little extra in paying for the time. If it is too awkward to do the job, or do it decently well, then a repack will be necessary.

Early in the thread the legal issue came up but wasn't pursued. Is there actually a legal issue somewhere??

Sort of like some jurisdictions don't like an open & reclose on a reserve by different riggers? But in this thread's case, different parts of the rig are being worked on, so I'm not sure where the problem would be. (Riggers don't guarantee the rig won't be screwed up in the next 180 days -- they are really only stating it is legal the day they did their repack.)

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If they prove themselves to be THAT penny pinching-ly cheap, I'd just smile, and hand back their gear, letting know that I can't see my self being able to do the fine job they surely deserve.
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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

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To cover everyone "morally and ethically" I would write on the packing data card: "2016 June 15, Pitt Meadows, signature, replaced chest strap."



yup. I'm in the habit of, if I do work on a closed rig that is notated on the data card, writing "did not repack" on the card along with whatever else I DID do.

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I certainly understand the reasoning here but the PDC is an official document and the FAA wants us to list the Work Performed, not what one didn't do. The equivalent would be me doing a tire replacement on an aircraft and listing in the log book that I didn't replace the tube. An unnecessary and undesired log entry.

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I certainly understand the reasoning here but the PDC is an official document and the FAA wants us to list the Work Performed, not what one didn't do. The equivalent would be me doing a tire replacement on an aircraft and listing in the log book that I didn't replace the tube. An unnecessary and undesired log entry.



Data card entries are an area that could be discussed a bunch in another thread!

Are data cards actually just a reserve card in the eyes of the FAA, or a location for riggers to list other work performed on the harness & container??

E.g., FAA part 65.131 requires riggers to keep detailed records of they work they do, but that's in their own records. On the packing card they are supposed to note defects found on inspection, but it doesn't say anything about recording work done -- even though that may or may not go along with having found defects.

But I don't know what other FARs might say.

As for writing things that one DIDN'T do, I'm all for writing extra things down if it serves a useful purpose.

Eg if I pack a rig in January I might write down "Cypres AAD expires end of March". Not my responsibility what the jumper or DZ does with the rig, but I'm helping out by defining what the limits are.

Or as a courtesy to other riggers to keep from always checking some service bulletin they don't remember exactly, "S/B xxx N/A".

Or if doing an open & reclose on a rig I write it in a different style than a normal repack -- so some DZ doesn't just skim the card, look at the most recent date, and assume it was freshly repacked.

Things not done can be mentioned if it would help avoid confusion.

Just my personal preference.

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I marked yes, would mark the data card accordingly showing NOT repacked and whatever work I had done. That way the govt entity could know what I had done and not done. if the repair needs the reserve popped the they'll have to suck it up.
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^^^^ exactly. Work done marked because it has to be. "Did not repack" notated so that if the data card happens to be checked in manifest by a non-rigger (this is pretty common), there is hope that the correct repack date will be entered into the manifest software, rather than just the most recent date noted on the data card.

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