TX Board of Education is wacked

[tigra 0]

Douva,

Her school (oddly enough in The Woodlands) was "whack", between the Harriet Tubman story (absolutely true) and other things, like trying to cram religion down her throat. (Ever have a 7 year old lecture you about God?) I was happy when she moved to a different school system-also in Texas- where I feel she received a much better education.

And, sorry, but I do feel it was rude for a 15 year old to loudly announce (in a room full of successful well educated Hispanics) that she spoke Spanish so she could speak to the busboys (her subordinates) at work. And I don't think that's being overly sensitive! But, to be fair, her behavior is pretty much in line with most upper middle class teeneagers all over the country. We (my sister and I) did not have the same advantages growing up, and sometimes its hard to tell just where this kid is coming from! I figure she'll be much easier to tolerate when she's around 30!

As far as my fiancee's family being embarrassed or offended? Doubtful, but I was embarrassed. They and their parents worked very hard when they got to this country and they aren't ashamed of it. They also know this country would come to a screeching halt without all the Hispanic labor. Ever hear of the film "A Day without Mexicans"? But that's a whole different topic.

And do you really want to go there with the blonde crap? Because I am a blonde female and I do find the jokes and stereotypes offensive, but I can't go on the offensive and attack someone for making a blonde joke! But, I guess if I make a general comment about the Texas school system, I'm fair game. Who is being overly sensitive now? I never used the words bigoted or narrow minded in my post, I just relayed some stories (kind of amusing, kind of appalling) about my own family members.

But, Douva, if you're so sensitive you need to retaliate by attacking a blonde female for relaying a story, feel free!

[Douva 0]

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Douva,

Her school (oddly enough in The Woodlands) was "whack", between the Harriet Tubman story (absolutely true) and other things, like trying to cram religion down her throat. (Ever have a 7 year old lecture you about God?) I was happy when she moved to a different school system-also in Texas- where I feel she received a much better education.

And, sorry, but I do feel it was rude for a 15 year old to loudly announce (in a room full of successful well educated Hispanics) that she spoke Spanish so she could speak to the busboys (her subordinates) at work. And I don't think that's being overly sensitive! But, to be fair, her behavior is pretty much in line with most upper middle class teeneagers all over the country. We (my sister and I) did not have the same advantages growing up, and sometimes its hard to tell just where this kid is coming from! I figure she'll be much easier to tolerate when she's around 30!

As far as my fiancee's family being embarrassed or offended? Doubtful, but I was embarrassed. They and their parents worked very hard when they got to this country and they aren't ashamed of it. They also know this country would come to a screeching halt without all the Hispanic labor. Ever hear of the film "A Day without Mexicans"? But that's a whole different topic.

And do you really want to go there with the blonde crap? Because I am a blonde female and I do find the jokes and stereotypes offensive, but I can't go on the offensive and attack someone for making a blonde joke! But, I guess if I make a general comment about the Texas school system, I'm fair game. Who is being overly sensitive now? I never used the words bigoted or narrow minded in my post, I just relayed some stories (kind of amusing, kind of appalling) about my own family members.

But, Douva, if you're so sensitive you need to retaliate by attacking a blonde female for relaying a story, feel free!

Tigra, I obviously had no way of knowing you have blond hair. I didn’t even realize you are a woman. So, if you seriously took offense to my analogy between stereotyping Texas and stereotyping blondes, you really are entirely too sensitive. As to your analogy between your comments and blonde jokes, it’s a false analogy. Blonde jokes are generally lighthearted and not intended to be interpreted as serious political or sociological statements. Your comments about Texas were obviously serious. You’re absolutely right that you never used the words “bigoted” or “narrow minded” in your post. You managed to create a bigoted, narrow minded post without those words. And finally, you weren’t attacked; you were rebutted. If you want to people to quit accusing you of being overly sensitive, you need to learn the difference.

--Douva

PS. Maybe your niece really did go to a crazy school, but it’s not indicative of most Texas schools.

PPS. I still think you’re on a misguided political high horse to take offense at your other niece’s comments in front of your fiancé’s family.

PPPS. I don’t recall making any disparaging remarks about Mexicans. Texas would be one hell of a hellhole without them.

I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.

[tigra 0]

Pot?? Kettle?? Which are you? There are jokes and stereotypes about every state in the union! For the record, my 15 year old nephew is 100% Texan, and absolutely delightful (even if he does like Bush)

[Douva 0]

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Pot?? Kettle?? Which are you? There are jokes and stereotypes about every state in the union! For the record, my 15 year old nephew is 100% Texan, and absolutely delightful (even if he does like Bush)

Okay, please explain how the pot/kettle expression applies here. It’s generally used to denote hypocrisy, but I’m having a hard time discerning what you think I am being hypocritical about. I don’t recall slandering any other states in my defense of Texas, so that can’t be it. Perhaps you think I, too, am being overly sensitive. I tend to find bigoted slurs against large segments of society offensive, but then again, we’ve already established that you and I have widely differing views on what constitutes “offensive.” I suggest you learn the difference between “jokes” and slander, and then focus on your own hypocrisy in which you denounce stereotyping ethnic groups but find it perfectly acceptable to stereotype states.

I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.

[billvon 2,384]

Douva, Tigra, stop calling each other hypocrites. It's a personal attack even if someone else does it first.

[cloudseeker2001 0]

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I've been there a lot and I think TX has some strange things. Like legal U turns?!

DAMN RIGHT! I once got a ticket for making a u-turn and I told that cop it was perfectly legal but he wrote the ticket out anyway..........When I went to court, the judge said nothin wrong with that and kicked it out!

"Some call it heavenly in it's brilliance,
others mean and rueful of the western dream"

[cloudseeker2001 0]

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Pot?? Kettle?? Which are you? There are jokes and stereotypes about every state in the union! For the record, my 15 year old nephew is 100% Texan, and absolutely delightful (even if he does like Bush)

Oh man, he looks like Bush! Better shave his ass and make him walk backwards!

"Some call it heavenly in it's brilliance,
others mean and rueful of the western dream"

[DrunkMonkey 0]

What's next?? Will these "individuals" (phrased carefully to conform to the Personal Attack/hate-speech laws) forbid the teaching of

-Evolution
-Contraception
-Any belief system other than Rabid Evangelical Xianity


Some of these "Individuals"(see above disclaimer) will not be happy until we go back to the supposedly "Idyllic" 1950's mindset.

FUCK THAT.

[EricTheRed 0]

More from the big state:

It's not ok to teach teenagers about birth control either. Guess they just wanted a few more unplanned pregnancies.

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=healthNews&storyID=6733240

DALLAS (Reuters) - Texas education officials on Friday approved health textbooks for high school students that extol the virtues of sexual abstinence but only make passing mention of contraceptives, which critics say violates state regulations and endangers the health of teens.

The battle in Texas has national implications because the state is the second-biggest market for textbooks in the United States. Books approved by the state's school board are typically marketed nationally.

The 15-member Texas Board of Education approved four books, all of which promote a birth control program based on abstinence. Three make no mention of contraceptives, while one makes passing references to condoms.

State regulations require information on contraceptives to be included in the sexual education curriculum, but board members said the books meet state standards because contraceptives are mentioned in separate supplements or in the teacher's edition.

Critics said the board bowed to social conservatives and their approval will leave Texas teens with inadequate information about their health.

"Instead of doing the responsible thing and providing high school students with life-saving information about sex and health, the Board of Education has left them to fend for themselves and get information from each other and sources like the Internet and MTV," said Samantha Smoot, president of the Texas Freedom Network, which battles social conservatives.

The texts are likely to appear in classrooms in August 2005 -- where they could be the standard text for about 10 years. The publishers of the books are Holt, Rinehart and Winston, Glencoe/McGraw Hill and Thomson Delmar Learning, which is owned by the Thomson Corp . Holt is owned by Reed Elsevier PLC and Reed Elsevier NV .

Many current textbooks in Texas have more information on contraceptives than the ones the board approved.

Surveys indicate a wide majority of U.S. parents support a strong abstinence message to teens in sex education.

According to Centers for Disease Control figures, Texas has been among the top five states in the country for teenage pregnancies for several years.

When he was governor of Texas, George W. Bush pushed for an abstinence-based sexual education curriculum.

illegible usually

[Phlip 0]

That's because it is wrong to educate our children, the world is gonna be a lot safer that way!

So if I understand all this correctly, in the "land of the free", people have the freedom to be ignorant. But sorry, you can't be gay or educated.

"drugs are bad, mmmmok?"

Phlip [confused]

[wmw999 2,117]

Guys, Texas is big -- there's plenty of room to sling shit, and, well, because of its size, there's always a target. We do provide some spectacular ones.

But, ya know, if you keep pointing out how wacked folks from a particular place are, well, they quit listening to you. Entirely. So that the intelligent, constructive messages that you might have on something else get lost too.

Kinda silly, seems to me. No matter what "that" is like, we're just not all, or even close to all, like that.

30 miles away from The Woodlands (which is a real haven of homogeneity -- my brother used to live there), there is one of the few cities in the country with fulltime professional sports in all 4 major sports; opera, theater, symphony, and ballet. A host of restaurants and well-known art museums.

And that's just one of the cities. Look for the inrageous as well as the outrageous.

Wendy W.
(deep in the heart of Texas)

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[Phlip 0]

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The battle in Texas has national implications because the state is the second-biggest market for textbooks in the United States. Books approved by the state's school board are typically marketed nationally.

It's not only about some people in TX, it's about books that will be the standards for millions of children for 10 years.

[IanHarrop 37]

Okay I have to agree with Wendy. I helped start this with a crack about Texas. Perhaps we should give Texas a break and pick on some other place now. Some suggestions include Tennessee, Arkansas, France, Canada or the UK. All of these are easy targets. Anybody got a preference for what place to pick on now?

"Where troubles melt like lemon drops, away above the chimney tops, that's where you'll find me" Dorothy

[JohnRich 4]

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The adoption of these middle school textbooks is in the final approval stages and this idiot wants to remove all references to same sex relationships because of a state law on same sex unions in Texas.

What's wrong with leaving such sensitive issues up to the *parents* to handle in whatever way they feel appropriate?

Why should teachers be turned into substitute parents?

Should schools teach that abortion is a good thing or a bad thing?

Teachers should stick to the three R's, and leave the other stuff to the parents to explain as they see fit. I don't want some school board usurping my right as a parent to teach things to my children that should be left to the family.

[billvon 2,384]

>What's wrong with leaving such sensitive issues up to the *parents*
>to handle in whatever way they feel appropriate?

That's a larger argument; why should schools teach health, or phys ed, or allow sports? After all, those are all things that parents are perfectly capable of doing for themselves. If you DO think that such things (things that benefit students outside of academic education) have a place in school, then surely an understanding of birth control, at least to the extent of what it is and what can prevent transmission of STD's, is a good thing.

>Should schools teach that abortion is a good thing or a bad thing?

Neither. At most they should say what it is.

>Teachers should stick to the three R's, and leave the other stuff to the
> parents to explain as they see fit.

That's fine, as long as you're willing to apply that across the board (i.e. eliminate health, and phys ed, and sports, and band, and the drama club etc.) If not, you end up trying to legislate what's OK and what's not for someone else's kid based on your preferences, and that's not right.

[EricTheRed 0]

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Teachers should stick to the three R's, and leave the other stuff to the parents to explain as they see fit. I don't want some school board usurping my right as a parent to teach things to my children that should be left to the family.

Because many parents don't teach these things at all. My parents are pretty good people (I love them both) and are both educated (no retired) professionals. What I learned about sex did not come from them.

The first time my parents EVER talked to me about sex was about 5 minutes after my father inadvertanly walked in on me and a GF while she was "riding the pony".

Believe it or not, many parents are really uncomfortable talking about things like (sex/drugs/diseases/etc.)

Society does not function if schools do not teach.

On picking on Texas. I did live there for about 4 years. I have great friends that still live there that I visit as often as possible. There are many things both good and bad about the state, and many things that are just too weird to truely understand. Overall I like Texas, but think they could tone down the idiot factor a bit.

illegible usually

[JohnRich 4]

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>>Should schools teach that abortion is a good thing or a bad thing? <<

> Neither. At most they should say what it is. <

There you go - that's the obvious solution. Just be like "Dragnet", and stick to the facts. Leave it to the parents to teach whatever moral values they want, based upon those facts.

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>> Teachers should stick to the three R's, and leave the other stuff to the parents to explain as they see fit. <<

> That's fine, as long as you're willing to apply that across the board (i.e. eliminate health, and phys ed, and sports, and band, and the drama club etc.) <

I don't know of any controversy surrounding classes in phys-ed, sports, band or drama. I don't think those are equivalent to the kind of issues were talking about here. When I said "stick to the three R's", I didn't mean that literally.

[Douva 0]

Questions of morality (right vs. wrong) should be left up to the parents, but the dissemination of facts IS the job of the schools. If they're going to teach sex education, they need to provide ALL the facts. I think a child's first introduction to the facts of sex should come from his or her parents, but parents aren't always the best equipped to provide detailed scientific data, statistics, medical advice, etc. The schools need to make sure the students have the correct information so that they can make their own informed decisions when they are a little older.

As to the idiot factor in Texas, every state has its share of idiots. Some states, like Texas and California, simply have the light shined on their idiots more often than the rest of the country.

I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.

[JohnRich 4]

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Because many parents don't teach these things at all. My parents are pretty good people (I love them both) and are both educated (no retired) professionals. What I learned about sex did not come from them.

Then sex education should be an optional class. Those parents who want their children to learn it at school, can sign a release. Others should be allowed to opt out. When it comes to controversial subjects like this, I just don't see the need to shove a one-size-fits-all solution into every child's brain. Leave it to the parents to do as they see fit.

[EricTheRed 0]

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As to the idiot factor in Texas, every state has its share of idiots. Some states, like Texas and California, simply have the light shined on their idiots more often than the rest of the country.

You betcha:
Here's one of our locals. She may qualify for the Darwin Award.

http://www.oregonlive.com/news/oregonian/index.ssf?/base/news/1099486686212582.xml

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Fetsch said witnesses told investigators that Boothe, a driver for route 62-Murray Boulevard, got off the bus after its passengers disembarked just before noon Tuesday. Boothe, 56, walked to the driver's side of the bus to close a window from the outside.

The bus began rolling forward, and Boothe ran to the front of the bus and stood with her arms outstretched in an apparent effort to stop the 15-ton vehicle, witnesses said. Fetsch said the moving bus knocked Boothe down and rolled on top of her before coming to a stop.

illegible usually

[billvon 2,384]

>I don't know of any controversy surrounding classes in phys-ed, sports,
> band or drama.

Such issues exist in most schools; both my parents were teachers and had to deal with them regularly. One parent thought the drama teacher was gay because, well, you know those theatre types. How dare the school indoctrinate her son into his lifestyle! (They even made a movie about a similar situation.) Sports are exclusionary; someone's son didn't get on the team because he was black, or because he was white, or because he wasn't aggressive enough, or he was too aggressive. And someone's daughter didn't get picked for the cheerleading squad because all the women who "came on" to the coach got picked first.

There is some merit to saying that you only teach basic subjects in public schools; but if the objective is to prevent the sort of controversy that surrounds sex education, that rationale can be applied to a lot more than sex ed. Reproductive health is one of the most pressing health issues at most high schools, and thus removing it from the health curriculum makes little sense - unless you do away with health altogether, of course.

[PhreeZone 14]

As of a short 8 years ago sex ed was built right into health/anatamy class. It was explained about pregnancy, how said act happens and what can be done to prevent it if desired. Methods were talked about and facts like prevention rates, which methods protected against what diease and that abstance was the only sure way not to get pregnant or recieve a STD. Hard to argue how an egg becomes fertilized or how chemically the pill works in a womans body. We were presented just the facts with no bias from "The Church says this..." or anything else.

Hell, by 8th grade about half the students are already having sex anymore so might as well inform them as much as possible.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[Jimbo 0]

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"Instead of doing the responsible thing and providing high school students with life-saving information about sex and health, the Board of Education has left them to fend for themselves and get information from each other and sources like the Internet and MTV," said Samantha Smoot, president of the Texas Freedom Network, which battles social conservatives.

Or other sources like their parents! God forbid that parents explain the benefits, drawbacks, and inherent dangers of sex to their children. God forbid! Ask yourself, do you WANT the state raising your children, or would you prefer to do it yourself.

-
Jim

"Like" - The modern day comma
Good bye, my friends. You are missed.

[Jimbo 0]

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But, ya know, if you keep pointing out how wacked folks from a particular place are, well, they quit listening to you. Entirely. So that the intelligent, constructive messages that you might have on something else get lost too.

Not entirely related to this thread, but could apply elsewhere (OK - Almost every other thread in SC): But, ya know, if you keep pointing out how wacked folks are from a particular political party, or with a particular political slant, well, they quit listening to you. Entirely. So that the intelligent, constructive messages that you might have on something else get lost too.

-
Jim

"Like" - The modern day comma
Good bye, my friends. You are missed.

[PhreeZone 14]

Can you tell me the %'s of effectiveness between the pill, condoms, IUD's, sponges or other methods? Or the pluses/negatives of difference doses of hormones in the the different pills? These are facts that are in the text books and teachers editions.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com