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RichyR

New canopy - Sabre 2 alternatives?

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So. I'm looking for my next canopy.

I've got 300 jumps and will have around 400 in the next 3-4 months,when the new canopy arrives.

Last 150 jumps have been on a Pilot 168 loaded at 1.3.

I'm looking for something a bit more aggressive than the Pilot, as I want to begin looking at HP landings and the recovery arc on the Pilot is a bit short. Also not entirely convinced by the Pilot's flare.

Obvious choice is the Sabre 2, but don't want to go this route as one of my top priorities is on-heading and soft openings.

What are the Sabre 2 alternatives? Would a more aggressive canopy like the Katana or Zulu be suitable for my experience - even perhaps staying at 170 rather than downsizing to a 150?

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I've heard (so take this for what you will) that the Zulu has quite a short recovery arc.

Katana I've heard (see above) is the most aggressive non-cross-braced canopy out there.

As for suitability at your jump numbers - ask your CI or the like, I'm in no way qualified to say.

Another elliptical others are maybe likely to suggest if you go the aggressive route is the xfire2 - but I've heard (see above) that if you don't load it at least at 1.4 then you can have performance degradation issues.

But to the more sensible part - alternatives to the Sabre2. Safire2 has been mentioned. Another one I've heard (see above) really good things about is the Magellan from Skylark. If you are in the UK, look up Aerosky on facebook and get in touch with them, as I believe they have a Magellan demo canopy available. I've seen that someone called Aiden Chaffe used to have a Magellan, so he would be able to give you first hand experience. His write ups certainly seemed extremely positive for it.

As for the Pilots flare... I jumped Pilots in 150, 132, 124, 117 sizes, and the flare was great until the more heavily loaded ones. The problem with it is that the power is right down at the bottom of the toggle stroke. So if you have long brake lines, short arms or other factors that stop you getting right down to the bottom of the toggle stroke, you'll miss the power of the flare. That's all from my experience, so much better info than the "I've heard" bits above.
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Thanks

I'd be loading a 150 at around 1.45WL.

Isn't the Safire very similar to the Pilot though?

The Crossfire looks interesting, but a big step up. The guy I did my canopy courses with is an Icarus dealer, so I'll ask him what he thinks about the Safire 3 vs Crossfire.

I've also come across the Nitron, which looks a possibility.

I suppose best option is to initially try and demo is same size I'm on at the moment.

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RichyR


I'd be loading a 150 at around 1.45WL.

The Crossfire looks interesting, but a big step up. The guy I did my canopy courses with is an Icarus dealer, so I'll ask him what he thinks about the Safire 3 vs Crossfire.



I got my first XF2 around the same jump numbers and around the same loading, same size. I've owned a 149, 119 and currently jump a 109. I've also demoed the 129.

Outside of the XF opening far better than the Sabre 2...at the 1.4ish level the Sabre 2 actually flew better in my opinion. In terms of "level of aggression"... the two of them are actually pretty similar - particularly at that WL.

At 1.4 the XF felt a bit sluggish and, frankly, a bit "soft." When it got a bit bumpy / choppy it was much less fun to fly than some alternatives...not "it is gonna collapse" horrible but rather spongy. Frankly, it sort of felt spongy all of the time now that I have a better base of comparison. At higher WL it is a delight.

As an "all around canopy" I think it flew best around 1.7-1.8ish. It is very fun to fly at 2.0 but it isn't terribly efficient (that could be my fat ass hanging under it...)...though it is perfectly fine for the type of jumping I do.

At 1.4 I'd spend my money elsewhere not because the XF2 is a bad parachute...but because there are better alternatives.

Just one guy's opinion...

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RichyR



The Crossfire looks interesting, but a big step up.



Then a Zulu is a comparable step. And a Katana would be a step even further. IMHO.
And, you mention that openings are your priority, then a Katana would definitely be the worst choice of the canopy mentioned.
Again, IMHO.


Personally I find the openings on my XF2 to be spotless most of the times, and when they're not I know it's because I literally trash packed the shit out of that poor canopy, otherwise they are soft but not terribly long, on heading, plus or minus 45 degs, and easy to fly on harness and risers if you pack at least somewhat humanely.
I'm standing on the edge
With a vision in my head
My body screams release me
My dreams they must be fed... You're in flight.

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try the katana at a 170 and itll feel like a downsize from the pilot. then work your way down the sizes... crossfires are ok as well but i prefered the dive of the katana over the crossfire...
I was that kid jumping out if his tree house with a bed sheet. My dad wouldn't let me use the ladder to try the roof...

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RichyR



Thanks

I'd be loading a 150 at around 1.45WL.

Isn't the Safire very similar to the Pilot though?

The Crossfire looks interesting, but a big step up. The guy I did my canopy courses with is an Icarus dealer, so I'll ask him what he thinks about the Safire 3 vs Crossfire.

I've also come across the Nitron, which looks a possibility.

I suppose best option is to initially try and demo is same size I'm on at the moment.



I've only done 1 jump on a Saf2, so can't really say. But I've read lots of threads with people using the Saf2 as their first "learning to swoop" canopy, as its recovery arc is longer than a Pilots. It is in the same class of wing though, along with the Sab2.

However, as you do seem to be getting intrigued by the fully elliptical canopy side of things, I can throw in another suggestion - an Odyssey, also from Skylark.

I demoed one in a 120, loved it, so bought myself one. I now have two, one in a 105 and the other is a 100. I've also jumped an xf2 in a 109. They are very similar canopies. If you like one, you'll also like the other. So why the Odyssey instead of the xf2? Well, personally I found it to be just that little bit better - less snivelly, but still nice opening and slightly more power in the flare. I didn't do enough with the xf2 to really compare recovery arc, but I've been told they are very similar. I love it.

But, as with the Volt comment previously, another reason to consider it is the price. Not sure what the dealer price is in the UK, but their website says an Odyssey is $1500 in a 150 (largest size they seem to offer).

If you are concerned about the step up to a fully elliptical, then don't do it. This game isn't a sprint to the finish line.
Sky Switches - Affordable stills camera tongue switches and conversion adaptors, supporting various brands of camera (Canon, Sony, Nikon, Panasonic).

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Just posting these in case you have never seen them before, very useful and valuable information in both of these articles. This I what I plan on doing before I change to a more aggressive or downsize my canopy.

Also are you wanting fully elliptical or semi elliptical? There seems to be a mix of canopies that have been mentioned.

http://www.bigairsportz.com/pdf/bas-sizingchart.pdf
http://www.dropzone.com/safety/Canopy_Control/Downsizing_Checklist_47.html#flat

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richoH

I've jumped with Aiden and seen his Magellen. He still raves about it, I think he just bought a smaller one.

Haven't flown the wing, but can vouch for the fact that it didn't kill him on the 4way we did.



Jumped a 170 magellan for 200 jumps or so, now flying a 150 magellan... Really decent canopy for the price and works fine for swooping too...

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I think a discussion with instructors plus a visit to a boogie where you can try some canopies would be smart. Would you purchase a car without ever test driving it? I drive a katana and a safire2.

I started jumping the katana 150 loaded at about 1.35 at 280ish jumps. If I knew then what I knew now then I wouldn't recommend it to myself even though I never had any bad landings and never hurt myself on it. At nearly 1000 jumps there are still things I can learn on it.

A firebolt could be another one to consider.

-Michael

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