Think TWICE before getting your FLU shot!!!

[soulshine 0]

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Who knows what is really in that stuff...

Good point...

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Heck, who knows what's in a Pepsi? Or a Big Mac

Also a very good point.

What it all boils down to is a matter of personal choice. Don't want that in your body? Then don't put it there, it's that simple. Maybe we are government guinea pigs, but no one is holding a gun to your head and forcing you to take the flu shot. There are some very good points that have been made on both sides of the issue.

Personally, I choose not to take the shot much to the chagrin of my chain of command. In the military you have to have the flu shot yearly and so far, after 4 years, i have managed to avoid it....we'll see what happens this year.

Bombing for peace is like fucking for virginity!
~DEVIOUS BEEF~~FGF #69~

[smiles 0]

Autoimmune diseases are known to begin or worsen with certain triggers such as viral infections........

I have autoimmune chronic illnesses: -diagnosed with Type 1 diabetes mellitus at age of 10- re: inflammation causing destruction of the insulin-producing cells of my pancreas, -rheumatoid arthritis, where my immune system predominantly targets the lining (synovium) that covers various joints. Inflammation of the synovium is usually symmetrical (occurring equally on both sides of the body) and causes pain, swelling, and stiffness of the joints. -autoimmune reaction is directed against my gut in inflammatory bowel disease (fistualizing Crohn's disease.)

The word "auto" is the Greek word for self. The immune system is a complicated network of cells and cell components (called molecules) that normally work to defend the body and eliminate infections caused by bacteria, viruses, and other invading microbes. If a person has an autoimmune disease, the immune system mistakenly attacks self, targeting the cells, tissues, and organs of a person's own body. A collection of immune system cells and molecules at a target site is broadly referred to as inflammation.

Anyway my body chemistry is screwed but I have been able to skydive for 15 years so really cannot complain.
This last 2 yrs. I have been treated with a monoclonal antibody called Infiximab (Remicade)- it is composed of human and mouse proteins- (just luv that fact) each bottle costs $1,000. cnd. and my infusion consists of 3 bottles every 8 weeks. Remicade works by blocking your immune system's overproduction of a protein (TNF-alpha), which is an underlying cause of my diseases. Remicade targets and neutralizes TNF-alpha. Re: rather than being treated with anti-inflamatory drugs- this stuff stops my immune system from overproducing, supresses my immune system. Wow, treatments have amazingly been working great- costs a ton but in the long run my medical expenses have been cheaper taking this antibody and when you add all the previous medication, surgery, hospital stays, constant dr. appt. up. Actually I am much healthier now than I have been in 20 years and don't want to look back.


I have been trying to understand and educate myself on the immune system- and it gets so confusing...stuff like you should never have your tonsils removed, vacinations I've had as a child and virus's, and flu shots.
Or------Interleukins are hormones that carry messages between the immune cells to orchestrate the entire battle. One interleukin attracts T-cells to their targets and alert them to create interferon (if needed) and create another interleukin to create helper T-cells to kick the immune system into high gear and call in the natural killer cells and stimulate B-cells to produce antibodies. Your body creates these wonderful chemicals whenever you do something that excites you, enthralls you, rings all your bells. So if Skydiving, Horse back riding, making love for hours, watching a beautiful sunset, is my key to a powerful immune system- and my immune system is in need of being suppressed- should I live a life without excitement? Also if the sugar from 1 can of soda pop can suppress your immune system for 6 hrs--I have diabetes so do not eat sugar, I could increase my insulin and start drinking soda pop??
As my immune system is being lowered by remicade infusions- should I get flu shots??
Crazy shit.

SMiles

[kallend 1,620]

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>Who knows what is really in that stuff...

Heck, who knows what's in Pepsi? Or a Big Mac?

Lots of orthophosphoric acid in Pepsi. So much that you can light a 100W light bulb by closing the circuit by dipping the bare wires in a glass of Pepsi. Or Coke.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[peregrinerose 0]

I have never had a flu shot, nor will I. Vaccinations can be just as deadly or detrimental as the disease. I wouldn't even let my kids have vaccinations if it wasn't for schools requiring them, since they have risks to them and the diseases are virtually non-existant at this time.

Of course the bonus is that I work in health care, so have about every antibody known to man

Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

[MBOF 0]

I'm afraid that most of the information written in the original thread is totally incorrect. I'm a T cell immunologist and have been researching various aspects of immunology (including vaccin design) for more than 10 years. Quite frankly I find this type of ill informed scare mongering offensive. I do not have the time or inclination to correct the original post on a point by point basis, however if people would like to know more about influenza vaccinations in general then here are a few links (I'm not sure how to make them clicky!).

General worldwide diseases, WHO recommendations etc...http://www.who.int/csr/disease/en/
CBER and CDC recommendations reagrding influenza vaccinations...http://www.fda.gov/cber/flu/flu.htm
http://www.cdc.gov/flu/protect/whoshouldget.htm

[chaoskitty 0]

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But, hell, I lived in England in the 1980's so I can't donate blood.

Me too.. and as far as I can tell.. I'm mad-cow disease free. I saw you last weekend and you didn't look like you had mad cow either.
Sucks because I'm O+ and lots of people could benefit from my blood.

[tigra 0]

Well, Im AB- and I used to donate blood and platelets regularly, but now they object to my annual vacations in Mexico. I guess there's an increased risk for hepatitis and malaria? I understand on one level, and yet, I really don't.

[lawrocket 3]

Thanks you, Dagny, for pointing that out. Just reading this is something a med-mal lawyer like me cringes about!

Chiropractors have as much business talking about flu shots as a nutritionist talkign about your optometry.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[billvon 2,380]

> Well, Im AB- and I used to donate blood and platelets regularly . . . .

I spent a few weeks in Africa ten years ago, and it won't be long before they don't let me donate blood any more. Every time I go in there are more questions and more books to be consulted before they OK me.

[wmw999 2,116]

The reason they're nearly extinct is because the vast majority of kids and adults are vaccinated; that's what herd immunity is all about.

It allows the the people who cannot be vaccinated (immune suppression, allergies, history of vaccine-related seizures in the family, whatever) to feel a little better.

But as soon as "everyone does it" the herd immunity drops, and the disease comes back. The DPT has gotten a bad rap, and now whooping cough rates are going up. In the US, too.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[Rebecca 0]

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> Well, Im AB- and I used to donate blood and platelets regularly . . . .

I spent a few weeks in Africa ten years ago, and it won't be long before they don't let me donate blood any more. Every time I go in there are more questions and more books to be consulted before they OK me.

I'm not allowed to donate anymore since I spent more than five years in Europe between 197? and 198?. I could have been exposed to BSE or something...

edit: oops, that's been covered already. Carry on.

you've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel loquacious?' -- well do you, punk?

[EricTheRed 0]

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Yeah, I understand that, but I don't buy it. The flu is different each year because it mutates. If you don't fight off the non-denatureed virus naturally, your immune system won't get the same workout. So when a flu comes along that they don't get the antigen right for it (like a couple years ago), or a new strain comes out mid season, you're less able to fight it off.

I haven't had more than a 2 day fly in 20 years, and most years I don't get anything except a slight case of the runs and a sniffle which could just as easily be attributed to tailgating at an Eagles game.

I haven't taken antibiotics in years, either. I've been to the doctor for sore throats and what not, they do a throat culture and usually prescribe antibiotics as a matter of course. I never get the prescritption filled until I call them a few days later for the culture results, and it's usually not something treatable by antibiotics anyway.

I'm pretty darn healthy for a non-dieting, not-much-exercising, beer drinking, smoker. Not going to mess with a good thing.

Getting the "real" flu will not do any better at protecting you from a shift in the virus than the vaccine. A shift is a shift.

Get your shot.

illegible usually

[tigra 0]

Yep, I used to tell them where I'd been, they'd verify that I stayed in the resort area, and that was that. Then they started pulling out a map and having me point to the area, and for a while that was OK. But then they started rejecting me! When I was in college, the Red Cross used to pick me up at my door, take me to the center to donate, FEED me- sandwiches, not just juice and cookies- then drive me home. They used to give me VIP treatment, and now they won't take my blood, go figure!

Its a shame, since I'm healthy, willing to donate and have a rare blood type, but they need to do what they need to do.

[peregrinerose 0]

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But as soon as "everyone does it" the herd immunity drops, and the disease comes back. The DPT has gotten a bad rap, and now whooping cough rates are going up. In the US, too.

I thought that DPT was still required to enter school?

I'd rather my kid get whooping cough than autism any day of the week.

Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

[skydivingfool 0]

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I'd rather my kid get whooping cough than autism any day of the week.

Unfortunately this myth plagues the autism literature. The initial study linking autism to vaccinations has been proven to be wrong. Later studies have shown no correlation with autism and vaccination.

[wmw999 2,116]

It is required to enter school. But the kids getting it are younger than school age.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[SpeedRacer 1]

replying to the "warning"

It is true that there are some people (a minority)who have bad reactions to flu shots & shouldn't get them.

But apart from that, the "warning" was about 90% bullshit.

The antibiotics Neomycin or Ampicillin, if present, are there because the antigens are recombinant proteins grown by bacteria in selective media cotaining the antibiotic. The bacteria contain a plasmid, a small hoop of DNA that contains 1) a gene coding for the viral antigen, and 2) another gene for an enzyme that neutralizes the antibiotic, so that only bacteria containing the plasmid will grow & produce the viral antigen.

Although antibiotics are necessary to produce the viral antigens, they should be removed during the purification process.

And it is polyethylene glycol, not ethylene glycol, that is used. PEG is harmless, but it can be used to increase antigenicity.

And the hypothesis that aluminum causes alzheimers was discredited long ago.

I could go on....

On the other hand, maybe we should just forget about vaccinations & get some homeopathic dipshit remedy so we can harmonize our auras. That should take care of any viruses.

excuse me, I have to go get my chakras rotated & stick a crystal up my butt.

Speed Racer
--------------------------------------------------

[Gralala 0]

Another disease on the rise is TB... Especially in the southern states... Again, such simple tests to help monitor and medications to treat, yet it's a threat.

My favorite about the flu shot though is how everyone gets the flu from it because so many believe it's still from a live virus. Believe me I get achiness from them myself, but with a history of borderline diabetes and working in medical setting for a number of years it was worth it. I had worse reaction to a Tetnus shot a few years back. Couldn't lift my arm for a week.

"Life is either a daring adventure or nothing at all." -- Helen Keller

[Gralala 0]

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On the other hand, maybe we should just forget about vaccinations & get some homeopathic dipshit remedy so we can harmonize our auras. That should take care of any viruses.

excuse me, I have to go get my chakras rotated & stick a crystal up my butt.

Funny as heck...

It's amazing how people are so ready to believe an unproven theory and throw the tried and true out the window. Don't get me wrong, I've Indian ancestors and my Grandmother told me about a lot of the "old ways" and medicines they used when she was young and growing up. But she would be the first to tell you what a miracle it is to be able to take a shot or a pill to prevent the mumps, German measles, and polio. Come on people, why take a step backwards, a 50 year step...

"Life is either a daring adventure or nothing at all." -- Helen Keller

[PhillyKev 0]

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But she would be the first to tell you what a miracle it is to be able to take a shot or a pill to prevent the mumps, German measles, and polio. Come on people, why take a step backwards, a 50 year step...

Sacharin...miracle sweetener

Heroine....miracle non-addictive pain reliever

Thalimide...miracle cure for morning sickness

Phen-fen...miracle weight loss drug

Nature has been at it a lot longer than 50 years. If I get sick and need medicine to get better, that's one thing. But I don't like taking what is in essence, experimental drugs, to prevent something that's not much of a threat to me.

If I had an immunological disaase, or diabetes or something along those lines where I'm at a real risk of being killed by the flu, that's one thing. But I'm not, so I'd rather let my natural immune system handle it than risk whatever horror they find out flu vaccines cause down the road.

[peregrinerose 0]

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Nature has been at it a lot longer than 50 years. If I get sick and need medicine to get better, that's one thing. But I don't like taking what is in essence, experimental drugs, to prevent something that's not much of a threat to me.

If I had an immunological disaase, or diabetes or something along those lines where I'm at a real risk of being killed by the flu, that's one thing. But I'm not, so I'd rather let my natural immune system handle it than risk whatever horror they find out flu vaccines cause down the road.

I agree. So many people are on meds for diseases that are in part preventable.. diabetes, high blood pressure, high cholesterol, then on more meds to help counteract the meds they have to take, etc.

Family docs prescribe antibiotics like candy just to psychologically appease flus and colds and 'pink eye' even though none of the above are generally bacterial. All they do is create resistant strains of superbacteria which are increasingly becomming a problem.

I always advise my patients never to take meds of any kind unless they know exactly what each one is for. Their health and their bodies are in their control, too often they mindlessly just take drugs or have surgery or whatever just because the doc said so. Too often docs don't really address the problem, don't refer to nutritionists or weight loss programs, for example, with regard to obesity related health issues.

Jen

Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

[PhillyKev 0]

Yep, I still have my tonsils, too. I used to get tonsilitis twice a year when I was a kid. But my family dr. was of the opinion that if you get rid of the tonsils, which are trapping that infection and isolating it, then you'll just get it somewhere else.

Makes sense because these days, if I start getting a cold, first thing is I'll get a sore throat and my tonsils sell up. more often than not, that's as far as it goes and two days later it's gone.

Oh, and another miracle drug for the list.

Arthritis Drug Vioxx Being Pulled

[peregrinerose 0]

Even the initial flu vaccine had its problems. It caused Guillain-Barre syndrome in the 1976 version. Since these vaccines are changed every year, the possibility of it happening again with another strain does exist. G-B syndrome is where the autoimmune system attacks the nervous system of the arms and legs, causing weakness. It isn't fatal, but isn't good either.

Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

[kelpdiver 2]

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But she would be the first to tell you what a miracle it is to be able to take a shot or a pill to prevent the mumps, German measles, and polio. Come on people, why take a step backwards, a 50 year step...

Sacharin...miracle sweetener
Heroine....miracle non-addictive pain reliever
Thalimide...miracle cure for morning sickness
Phen-fen...miracle weight loss drug

None of your examples are vaccines which work on the rather simple notion of causing an immune system reaction.

I'm not convinced that Sacharin is a death drug, and you bear in mind that Phen-Fen was never tested and approved for such use; it was the use of two separate drugs.

[peregrinerose 0]

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None of your examples are vaccines which work on the rather simple notion of causing an immune system reaction.

The problem with is that sometimes the immune system goes a little bit into hyperdrive, not only attacking the virus, but the person's own body. That's where the problem lies in vaccines. It doesn't happen often, but it does happen. I'd rather take my chances with the flu than risk an autoimmune issue. If I was immunocomprimised (anciently old, etc) that would be a different story.

Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda